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Negative or Positive Contract Value - You Decide

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Neutral is Schneider? Guy signed for 4.25M, has an additional year on the contract, is an elite goalie and that's neutral? Steve Mason just signed Cory Schneider's contract. Lundqvist makes twice as much starting next year.

I wouldn't call it neutral, but the big issue is that he's only signed for one more year, although I'm not really worried about losing him for nothing.

In any event, the whole exercise is kind of academic. Starting next year, this will not be a cap team, and we're not in the high priced free agent market anymore. There aren't really any contracts that are preventing the Devils from sowing something they otherwise would want to.

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thanks for that deep insight it really adds to the conversation.

 

I'm so sorry. What I ment to say was: "Zajacs contract is a negative."  Hope that helps you understand the contents of my post.

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I'm so sorry. What I ment to say was: "Zajacs contract is a negative." Hope that helps you understand the contents of my post.

thanks for the clarification yes it does help.

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I'm so sorry. What I ment to say was: "Zajacs contract is a negative."  Hope that helps you understand the contents of my post.

 

I think it is ridiculous that I understood that you meant negative

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I think it is ridiculous that I understood that you meant negative

Andy greene's contract is ridiculous. What do you think I mean by that?

After there were 2 dozen detailed posts prior to his discussing zajac's contract, I'm sorry if such a statement with no supporting information or opinion could be misunderstood.

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Not to derail the thread, but what's the general consensus on how much it'll take to get Cory here long term?

8 year, 7?  Shorter term, higher cap hit?

Personally I'm hoping a nice 6-7 year, 6.5-7m cap hit works..but I think that's a little too optimistic.  

 

 

I wonder if offering Cory the same deal that Zajac would get it done.

 

I highly doubt the Devils offer him 8 years because even Lundqvist couldn't get that length of a contract. The only way I see him getting a max contract in length is if he threatens to leave the team for UFA.

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I wonder if offering Cory the same deal that Zajac would get it done.

I highly doubt the Devils offer him 8 years because even Lundqvist couldn't get that length of a contract. The only way I see him getting a max contract in length is if he threatens to leave the team for UFA.

to be honest would you really want to be locked up with anyone for 8 years... i dont care who it is thats just too long of a time for comfort for a goalie Edited by 2ELIAS6

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to be honest would you really want to be locked up with anyone for 8 years... i dont care who it is thats just too long of a time for comfort for a goalie

it's true there are only a few players in the league that under ideal conditions you would give 8 years, but the system allows for players to leverage their position and force the team's hand.

Let's just be happy the league was able to put a stop to the 13 year deals that cost us parise.

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to be honest would you really want to be locked up with anyone for 8 years... i dont care who it is thats just too long of a time for comfort for a goalie

 

None of those uber-long term deals are ideal, but Schneider could probably get that somewhere...especially if he starts 55+ games next season and puts up rate numbers similar to what he's done previously.  And it all goes back to how Lou feels about Kinkaid and Wedge...if he thought either of those guys could be the Devils #1 goalie of the future, he's not giving up his first-rounder for Cory, so Lou kind of has to pony up on this one.  The only real question mark right now re:  Schneider is can he be a year-in, year-out 60+ game starter?  He's probably going to top out in the upper 40s this season, and before this season, has never started more than 30 games.  We've seen Marty start 70+ so often, we almost assume anyone can handle a 60+ yearly workload without a problem.  I'm guessing Cory could handle it, but we haven't actually seen him have to do it yet.   

 

At any rate, would 7-8 years at near max or at max per season be "positive" value for Cory?  I think the answers to that would probably be pretty varied.

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None of those uber-long term deals are ideal, but Schneider could probably get that somewhere...especially if he starts 55+ games next season and puts up rate numbers similar to what he's done previously.  And it all goes back to how Lou feels about Kinkaid and Wedge...if he thought either of those guys could be the Devils #1 goalie of the future, he's not giving up his first-rounder for Cory, so Lou kind of has to pony up on this one.  The only real question mark right now re:  Schneider is can he be a year-in, year-out 60+ game starter?  He's probably going to top out in the upper 40s this season, and before this season, has never started more than 30 games.  We've seen Marty start 70+ so often, we almost assume anyone can handle a 60+ yearly workload without a problem.  I'm guessing Cory could handle it, but we haven't actually seen him have to do it yet.   

 

At any rate, would 7-8 years at near max or at max per season be "positive" value for Cory?  I think the answers to that would probably be pretty varied.

 

I'm not too worried about the workload Cory can handle, only because he managed 36, 40, and 60 in 3 years the AHL (with 10 NHL games mixed in). It seems like mentally and physically, he can do 55-60 a year, maybe more in years that he doesn't have a solid backup. After Zach, Clarkson, Kovy, etc, I think we will all be a little uneasy until Schneider has officially put pen to paper and signed, but I also think Lou knows the importance of locking him up and that money won't be too much of an issue.

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Neutral is Schneider? Guy signed for 4.25M, has an additional year on the contract, is an elite goalie and that's neutral? Steve Mason just signed Cory Schneider's contract. Lundqvist makes twice as much starting next year.

I need a bigger sample size and he needs to play more. I believe next year he will be a positive value contract but I still don't like how he's being handled with Brodeur stil being here.

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I need a bigger sample size and he needs to play more. I believe next year he will be a positive value contract but I still don't like how he's being handled with Brodeur stil being here.

 

One win in free agency is worth $3.1 million.  Between 5 and 6 goals is worth one win.  Thankfully goalies are easy to measure in this regard - average save percentage is .914, Schneider is at .926.  He would've allowed 7 more goals with a .914, so already we're at around $3.5 million above average - he's way more than that above replacement level (and indeed, replacement level goaltending would cost a minimum contract, which is $550,000 - Schneider's contract is therefore $3.7 million above replacement).  And I haven't factored in NJ's horrible scorer which costs Schneider a save or two every night he plays in Newark.  Schneider should be paid probably twice as much but NJ has him under control for another year at his very inexpensive price.

Edited by Triumph

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Bernier is absolutely positive. He can be a serviceable second line forward, but isn't because of the team's makeup. If that doesn't spell a good fourth liner, I don't know what does. I would also call Henrique positive, and Zajac "neutral". In both cases, we overpaid a little to make sure we could lock up two, fairly young homegrown centers, both of whom haven't played terribly, just not quite up to scoring expectations.

 

This teams two biggest contractual issues are the old defensemen, Sal contributes nothing to this team, and is our captain to boot. Volchenkov at least provides more on the ice, but is still a piss poor contract.

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Schneider signs with the Devils for.....7 years, $45M

 

EDIT:  I am hoping for something like 5/30 but do not think he will take that.

 

If he leaves during FA, this is a massive fail for Mr. Lamoriello

Edited by ThreeCups

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Schneider signs with the Devils for.....7 years, $45M

 

EDIT:  I am hoping for something like 5/30 but do not think he will take that.

 

If he leaves during FA, this is a massive fail for Mr. Lamoriello

 

When he can go UFA, there'll a half dozen teams (maybe) needing goalies. That's not even factoring in how many goalies that'll be available. There won't be much of a market and I doubt any of them will be a better fit than NJ for Cory.

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Bernier is absolutely positive. He can be a serviceable second line forward, but isn't because of the team's makeup. If that doesn't spell a good fourth liner, I don't know what does. I would also call Henrique positive, and Zajac "neutral". In both cases, we overpaid a little to make sure we could lock up two, fairly young homegrown centers, both of whom haven't played terribly, just not quite up to scoring expectations.

This teams two biggest contractual issues are the old defensemen, Sal contributes nothing to this team, and is our captain to boot. Volchenkov at least provides more on the ice, but is still a piss poor contract.

Bernier has been abominably bad to the point that he should be paying the Devils. I mean he's just been awful.

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Bernier has been abominably bad to the point that he should be paying the Devils. I mean he's just been awful.

We watching the same team? He's no superstar, but he's playing on the 4th line. He's done a decent job as a fill in on the good lines too.

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We watching the same team? He's no superstar, but he's playing on the 4th line. He's done a decent job as a fill in on the good lines too.

He's a place filler with a big body. He really hasn't done much this year.

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We watching the same team? He's no superstar, but he's playing on the 4th line. He's done a decent job as a fill in on the good lines too.

We do but apparently you don't watch Bernier when he's on the ice. His play has been awful, other Devils fans I sit next to at games are saying the same thing, and he's done literally nothing offensively after that OT goal against the Sabres.

People need to stop with this 4th line obsession. It's over for that group and they need to be chucked off the roster this offseason and bring in fresh energy players.

He's a place filler with a big body. He really hasn't done much this year.

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He's another of Deboers favorites. That's Pete's MO with these guys. As long as he likes you, you will play, regardless of how terrible you actually are.

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Listen, I mean I like Carter, Bernier and (to a lesser extent) Gionta, but they're replaceable.  Even as 4th liners.

 

The whole situation is worsened when PDB decides to put Bernier on a line with Elias (the fvck was that about) or Gionta in the top-6 because they're his favorites.

 

THEY'RE 4TH LINERS, PLAY THEM ONLY IN THAT ROLE.  Having them play above their pay grade is just..senseless.

Edited by Devilsfan118

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Listen, I mean I like Carter, Bernier and (to a lesser extent) Gionta, but they're replaceable. Even as 4th liners.

The whole situation is worsened when PDB decides to put Bernier on a line with Elias (the fvck was that about) or Gionta in the top-6 because they're his favorites.

THEY'RE 4TH LINERS, PLAY THEM ONLY IN THAT ROLE. Having them play above their pay grade is just..senseless.

once again this falsehood is bandied about on these boards. Here are the lowest 5v5 toi averages this season for players who've played at least 30 games:

Gionta- 10:23

Carter - 10:43

Loktionov- 11:21

Brunner- 11:41

Bernier- 12:21

As you can see, the guys you mentioned are played very much like a 4th line in terms of ice time. Brunner's will no doubt rise after his improved play before the injury.

They do average slightly more (perhaps 30 seconds?) than other 4th lines, but that's probably because of our age and trying to limit ice time amongst older forwards. Heck even jagr complained the other week of not giving other lines more ice time.

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Bernier was getting power play time for a while - he's been fine.  His issue is not finishing - lots of shots, no goals.  The trouble is where NJ might've used someone like Olesz in Bernier's role when people got hurt and NJ needed fill-ins, they used Bernier.  His contract is absolutely fine - he'll get more than he's making now on his next contract, wherever it ends up being.

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Do you guys judge our players just in the goals column? A player like Bernier doesn't have an amazing shot or hands, but he has serviceable skill, and is a big body who can be a presence in front of the crease and grind along the boards. He's a good contract

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Bernier was getting power play time for a while - he's been fine.  His issue is not finishing - lots of shots, no goals.  The trouble is where NJ might've used someone like Olesz in Bernier's role when people got hurt and NJ needed fill-ins, they used Bernier.  His contract is absolutely fine - he'll get more than he's making now on his next contract, wherever it ends up being.

This. He's no more than a 4th liner, but he's done that well, and when called upon to fill in for an injury, he didn't embarrass himself, even if he didn't produce a ton. That's about what you want from your 4th line (and Bernier's been the best of that group). I'm not holding onto CBGB memories, but no one has done better, even when given chances. I don't agree with this expectation that our 4th line should magically be more than a 4th line. That's a rare miracle.

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Bernier has been abominably bad to the point that he should be paying the Devils. I mean he's just been awful.

i really hope he is not resigned to be honest.. its time for some change of faces around here

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