Colin226

GDT: NJ Devils vs. NY Rangers - 12:30pm on NBC - Stadium Series Editio

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Devils are 10-5-5 in their last 20 GP.  They were 5-1-2 in their last 8 before this mess.  Today sucked something fierce, but it is just one loss.   

 

Anyone who wants to blame Marty 100% for this loss isn't seeing the whole picture.  Plenty of blame to go around today.  That being said, I really hope more than ever that Marty stops thinking about playing next year, and retires after this season.  Like I've said, Marty will probably always think he still has it in him to be what he was.  He doesn't.  He may have some good games left in him, but good luck guessing when he'll have them. 

 

We've known that the Cory Schneider Era was going to start before much longer, but this is the game that slammed the door shut on the Marty Brodeur Era.  Like I said, I don't blame Marty for everything that went wrong today, but from here on out, he can't ever be thought of as a 1B here again, only as a distant #2.  This is Cory's time now.  Just ride him.     

 

I just don't have any faith in management or coaching to do this.  There's 29 games left.  Schneider should get 22 of them at a minimum - probably closer to 25.  Somehow I feel like he ends up with 18 or 19.  Until I hear DeBoer say 'Schneider is our #1 goalie', I'm not going to be surprised when Brodeur gets the odd start here and there.

Edited by Triumph

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pretty much, i feel the same that the loss is not on Brodeur but this decision today was obviously made based on feelings and the whole chabang... but seeing the results its pretty damn fair to justify that i has to be the last time it comes in play in any decisions. There's no way to know if we would have won with Cory in net but still, Brodeur is not the #1 anymore, thats as clear as day

 

That was Marty's last thank-you bone, and I understood completely why it was thrown, and agreed 100% with the decision.  But no more bones. 

 

At this point, as he's still going to start some games, I hope the Devils do what they can to protect him and themselves, and try their best to put him in against lesser teams.  Kinkaid is now struggling for Albany, Wedge clearly isn't ready, and no way the Devils dream of embarrassing Marty by bringing in a backup, so they'll have to try to spot Marty in games that give the Devils a chance to win.  At this point, if the Devils go NHL .500 in Marty's remaining starts, I'll happily sign up for that. 

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I just don't have any faith in management or coaching to do this.  There's 29 games left.  Schneider should get 22 of them at a minimum - probably closer to 25.  Somehow I feel like he ends up with 18 or 19.

 

They can't ignore this anymore Tri.  Marty had a .901 save% last season and is down to .899 this season.  The sample is pretty large.  The 50-game surge I've repeatedly brought up ended almost 18 months ago.  They have no right to be foolish about this.  There's a guy who is playing light-years better right now, who's in his prime.  I couldn't agree more, at least 22 games for Schneider going forward.  If the Devils blow this, they have no one to blame but themselves.  Marty has no more bones coming to him (at least, he shouldn't).

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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They can't ignore this anymore Tri.  Marty had a .901 save% last season and is down to .899 this season.  The sample is pretty large.  The 50-game surge I've repeatedly brought up ended almost 18 months ago.  They have no right to be foolish about this.  There's a guy who is playing light-years better right now, who's in his prime.  I couldn't agree more, at least 22 games for Schneider going forward.  If the Devils blow this, they have no one to blame but themselves.  Marty has no more bones coming to him (at least, he shouldn't).

 

Depending on playoff implications/if we are out of the race, etc....this will change the thought process of the starters

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Yeah that's true, it's not like the Devils played Kevin Dean and Lyle Odelein and Colin White when he first came up and the end of Daneyko's career (and indeed maybe Daneyko himself) - it was all HOFers back there, all the time.  

 

I guess the defense must be way better for Schneider since Schneider is putting up HOF level numbers so far here.

 

Besides pulling random names for effect, you could do a lot worse as a goaltender then those players.

 

This is a "chicken or the egg" argument at it's core. Is Brodeur's success an indictment of his individual talent or is it more a direct result of the players and system he played with/under? I'm sure the day he retires, this will be brought up in retrospect of his career.

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Besides pulling random names for effect, you could do a lot worse as a goaltender then those players.

 

This is a "chicken or the egg" argument at it's core. Is Brodeur's success an indictment of his individual talent or is it more a direct result of the players and system he played with/under? I'm sure the day he retires, this will be brought up in retrospect of his career.

 

This has already been a hot button topic for the last 10 years.

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They can't ignore this anymore Tri.  Marty had a .901 save% last season and is down to .899 this season.  The sample is pretty large.  The 50-game surge I've repeatedly brought up ended almost 18 months ago.  They have no right to be foolish about this.  There's a guy who is playing light-years better right now, who's in his prime.  I couldn't agree more, at least 22 games for Schneider going forward.  If the Devils blow this, they have no one to blame but themselves.  Marty has no more bones coming to him (at least, he shouldn't).

 

I'm with Tri on this one, I honestly have zero faith in management standing up to Marty's ego/legacy/whatever you want to call it. The fact he started after his comments a week or so ago [when Schneider was on the roll and he said he was upset about not playing] reinforces my belief. There has to come a point in time, as you said CR, where they need to think of the team and not the individual, but time after time, in my jaded point of view, they allow him [brodeur] to pretty much call the shots.

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They can't ignore this anymore Tri.  Marty had a .901 save% last season and is down to .899 this season.  The sample is pretty large.  The 50-game surge I've repeatedly brought up ended almost 18 months ago.  They have no right to be foolish about this.  There's a guy who is playing light-years better right now, who's in his prime.  I couldn't agree more, at least 22 games for Schneider going forward.  If the Devils blow this, they have no one to blame but themselves.  Marty has no more bones coming to him (at least, he shouldn't).

 

The coach just said yesterday that he doesn't believe in save percentage.  So that means whenever Cory loses, there's the threat of Brodeur going back in there.

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The coach just said yesterday that he doesn't believe in save percentage.  So that means whenever Cory loses, there's the threat of Brodeur going back in there.

 

My main concern. The coach doesn't care for stats. What exactly is he looking at? I have 0 faith at all that if Cory has a bad outing against St Louis, he isn't sitting on the bench the next game.

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The coach just said yesterday that he doesn't believe in save percentage.  So that means whenever Cory loses, there's the threat of Brodeur going back in there.

 

Scary thought.  I'm hoping Lou and PDB are smarter than that.  Even if PDB doesn't believe in save%, he should believe in Cory being better.  If he can't see that, he shouldn't be coaching this team anymore.

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Besides pulling random names for effect, you could do a lot worse as a goaltender then those players.

 

This is a "chicken or the egg" argument at it's core. Is Brodeur's success an indictment of his individual talent or is it more a direct result of the players and system he played with/under? I'm sure the day he retires, this will be brought up in retrospect of his career.

 

Brodeur had a lot of great teams and a lot of very solid years.  He is not the greatest goalie of all time but he is clearly in the top 10, below Roy and Hasek in his era but certainly better than people like Curtis Joseph.

 

The Devils have an excellent defense now.  That's what you're disregarding in your previous post.

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I'm gonna cherry pick from the last couple pages of this thread.

 

. Keeping Schneider is not a slam dunk. Schneider is going to sign where he thinks gives him the best chance to win and make the most money?  The Islanders could throw the kitchen sink at him...  There are a lot of teams out there that are going to be in the mix to get him.  Trading the pick for 2 years of him was not a good trade at all.  Locking him up long-term is the key to that trade.  Lou's best chance to do that would have been last summer.  Now, we've already frustrated him with playing time and playing behind a marginal team.

 

Lou cannot even offer an extension until this summer. The CBA doesn't allow for it. I would like to think that Lou discusses extension with Schneider this offseason. I would be concerned if he doesn't have one when the season starts but if he doesn't, none of the public quotes you hear will indicate anything definitive one way or another. "when you have time, you use it." "i'm always open to an extension if it's right for me and the team", etc.

 

 

Positives to take for me:

- the defensive breakdowns that we saw constantly are rare for us, so I'm not worried about it.
- the power play continues to produce. It's a shame we couldn't draw a few more penalties late because I think we could have made it interesting, but if our power play continues to convert at this rate we will be in good shape.
- josefson looked halfway decent on the jägr line, better than Boucher did. I hope to god Pete keeps him there for Tuesday
- broduer letting in 6 goals will further cement Cory as the starter. I hope and think he will get at least 20 of the final 29 games, probably more than that.
 

 

i agree with these positives (along with actually being at the game which was really fun - although i wouldn't want to consistently watch games from that kind of vantage point - the best seat for this game is worse than the worst seat at the rock).

 

Not attacking Marty, but goalies need to save you some games, and there was a stretch in the second where Marty could have saved at least SOME shots, which makes it a different game. He gave up 3 goals in a row, a couple of which went through his legs. A couple times, Marty was slow coming across the goal mouth, and never got his feet set, which meant he couldn't adjust to deflections. If the shots were unpredictable, I'd get it, but everyone knew who was going to be shooting, and the ice was slow enough that the passes weren't exactly crisp. I don't want to beat on Marty here, but he was off, and IMO he was off because he's nowhere near the athlete he used to be.

 

this is essentially how i feel about marty for the last 3 years when he has games like these. i said today, and i've said for years - when marty loses, he is usually a big reason for it. this year, when schneider loses, he is rarely a big reason for it. this year, when marty wins, he usually is not one of the top 3 reasons why. when schneider does, he is almost always the best or 2nd best player on the ice.

 

Devils are 10-5-5 in their last 20 GP.  They were 5-1-2 in their last 8 before this mess.  Today sucked something fierce, but it is just one loss.  

 

This is what I'm hoping will continue - if it does, the devils are 80% to make the playoffs. even if this game is in MSG, we feel differently. it's our once in a lifetime event and marty was as bad as could possibly be.

 

The coach just said yesterday that he doesn't believe in save percentage.  So that means whenever Cory loses, there's the threat of Brodeur going back in there.

 

i have learned to not necessarily believe everything this coach says when brodeur is involved. in fact, i will give PDB a ton of credit for how he has handled the most massive ego he's likely ever had to deal with.

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i have learned to not necessarily believe everything this coach says when brodeur is involved. in fact, i will give PDB a ton of credit for how he has handled the most massive ego he's likely ever had to deal with.

 

It started well in 2011-2012. Brodeur was awful and he didn't give  sh!t who he was. He even pulled him in a tie game in the playoffs.

 

But this year his actions are backing up his words. I think Deboer has handled things well with his comments, but not with how he has handled the games. Marty has played way too much. If he goes back to Brodeur in the next few games, I'll have no faith that he will ever do the right thing with Brodeur/Cory.

 

He simply can't see/or doesn't want to see how poorly Brodeur has been and how easy the goalie situation is. The name Brodeur, that for some reason was not too big for him in that first year, is now too big of a name to burry him like he should.

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i have learned to not necessarily believe everything this coach says when brodeur is involved. in fact, i will give PDB a ton of credit for how he has handled the most massive ego he's likely ever had to deal with.

 

With no thanks to his boss. As soon as Lou started with that "1A" nonsense he made Pete's life that much more difficult. Pete's own GM took away any leverage he might have thought he had with one sentence.

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Awful 2nd and 3rd period. The game looked so so promising after 1.  It was a huge disappointment..  We have a surplus of D men and they all blow. Volchenkov, who we and I especially chastised after last season, has been our best D. 

 

Marty gave up a few softies, but no way was this all on him.  I personally, would have pulled Marty after 4 or even 5-3.  We're not making the playoffs, guys.. It hurts to come to that realization, but we're not good enough.  We need a goal scorer. We don't have one. 

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Awful 2nd and 3rd period. The game looked so so promising after 1.  It was a huge disappointment..  We have a surplus of D men and they all blow. Volchenkov, who we and I especially chastised after last season, has been our best D. 

 

Marty gave up a few softies, but no way was this all on him.  I personally, would have pulled Marty after 4 or even 5-3.  We're not making the playoffs, guys.. It hurts to come to that realization, but we're not good enough.  We need a goal scorer. We don't have one.

volchenkov our best D? .. i dont know if you saw it but one of the goals on brodeur tonight was his fault he decided to push one of the rangers clean into brodeur knocking him over and then poof goal

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Yeah, that's a lame excuse. He really just sounds like he's making excuses with that one. Everyone played on the same ice.

 

They asked him what he thought of the ice. 

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Scary thought.  I'm hoping Lou and PDB are smarter than that.  Even if PDB doesn't believe in save%, he should believe in Cory being better.  If he can't see that, he shouldn't be coaching this team anymore.

 

The turn already began before this. Cory started 6 of 8 for the stretch before today including both halves of a back to back. It slowly became Cory's job, and today solidified it. Marty needs to make the right call this summer, or Lou has to for him. 

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I'm hoping we win 4 of the 6 games remaining before the Olympics.

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The turn already began before this. Cory started 6 of 8 for the stretch before today including both halves of a back to back. It slowly became Cory's job, and today solidified it. Marty needs to make the right call this summer, or Lou has to for him. 

 

This is still only 62 games over a full season,, and Brodeur started today.  The split needs to be starker than that.  Brodeur should get 1 game before the season stops - Nashville on the road.  That's it.  I can guarantee he will get 2 games coming up before the Olympic break.

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They asked him what he thought of the ice.

Yeah I saw that, but was too lazy to correct myself lol.

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The turn already began before this. Cory started 6 of 8 for the stretch before today including both halves of a back to back. It slowly became Cory's job, and today solidified it. Marty needs to make the right call this summer, or Lou has to for him. 

 

Yes and no.  The turn has started partly because Cory has been SO lights-out lately that he hasn't given PDB any choice.  What happens if Cory has a meh game and gives up four goals?  (This happens to everyone eventually.)  I would hope PDB doesn't go running to Marty under such circumstances, but sadly I can absolutely see him doing that.  And I'll be beyond infuriated if he does.   

 

 

This is still only 62 games over a full season,, and Brodeur started today.  The split needs to be starker than that.  Brodeur should get 1 game before the season stops - Nashville on the road.  That's it.  I can guarantee he will get 2 games coming up before the Olympic break.

 

Agree, but I get the feeling Marty gets the Oilers too. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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still funny that Lou and Debo who preaching the "logo at the front and not the name on the back thing" are going out of their way with Brodeur so often though, cause the only reason he was in net in some games this year was because of his name plate.

 

Again i didnt mind that he was in net yesterday but im talking about the many times he was in net and that it should have been Schneider

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still funny that Lou and Debo who preaching the "logo at the front and not the name on the back thing" are going out of their way with Brodeur so often though, cause the only reason he was in net in some games this year was because of his name plate.

 

Again i didnt mind that he was in net yesterday but im talking about the many times he was in net and that it should have been Schneider

 

He definitely got a longer leash, no question, and sometimes unfairly so.  I'm willing to give PDB a pass on that (this was going to be a difficult transition), as long as it's now Schneider who gets the longer leash...as in, if Cory has a meh game, he gets the next one to bounce back.  Or if Marty plays well in a spot start, he doesn't automatically get the next one.   

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