'7'

Brodeur embarrassed himself and the franchise today

165 posts in this topic

If I can defend 7 for one moment.. the anger\backlash from fans is NOT because of the past or present.. it's due to the future! The uncertainty about whether or not this season's his last.. and fans are getting fed-up being pigeon held by a 42 year-old, who's only point in continuing to play seems to be an effort to further inflate his stats, to the point where (he feels) they're unattainable. It's bad enough to put DeBoer, Schneider, and the fans through this goaltending fiasco for ONE season. But to do it again next year?? --that's selfish. You want to continue your career?? --fine! But do it on somebody else's team.. not mine! (yeah, I just said that) We're fighting for a fvcking playoff spot god damn it.. and 100 years of conventional hockey says you; "stay with the hot goalie". You ride the guy who's white-hot.. and I had to see a goalie, who's been playing amazing with a Sv% near .930, ride the pine yesterday because this organization needed to feed the ego of ONE PERSON. A cold goalie who hadn't played in a week, playing a game in an environment less suitable for a player in his 40's, vs a player in his 20's. 

The Devils as an organization used to be untouchable.. not anymore. They preached team, they preached selflessness. They preached; "no ONE PLAYER is bigger than the franchise" for 30 years! --and all that went south yesterday, in an effort to turn a professional hockey team, into the Harlem Globetrotters.

 

*EDIT: What happens if Marty doesn't hit 700 even after next season? Does he come back again for 2016?? Is that how he'd want to be remembered.. as some compiler?? Because 700 wins off a career of 1991 - 2016, would be the definition of a compiler folks. --and if that's the endgame in Brodeur's head.. then have fun a blast ruining your career like Brett Favre!

 

 

This is not just about yesterday bro..

 

Brodeur:  28 GP,  2.52 GAA, .899 Sv% (ranked 40th in the NHL) --41 years old.

Schneider: 26 GP, 1.86 GAA, .927 Sv% (ranked 5th in the NHL) --27 years old.

 

..if it looks like I'm trying to make this seem overall simplistic, it's because it really is! Marty has been a .500 goalie (at best) since 2010. Over his last 250 games, he's manufactured 125 wins, since 2009. He can play the remaining back-to-backs, but THAT'S IT! I want to see this team ride Cory the rest of the way.

 

Beez, in fairness, just about EVERYONE is aware of the vast statistical difference between the two goalies, and that Schneider has to be the undisputed #1 from here on out.  To me, undisputed means PDB doesn't give Marty a start after a meh or poor performance game from Cory, or treats a good Marty start as a reason to keep starting him at Cory's (and the team's) expense.  And fans like me and others have pointed out the balance of the last four years:

 

2010-11:  Bad start (along with just about everyone else), strong second half.  Inconsistent

2011-12:  Bad start, very good final 50 games.  Inconsistent

2013:  Bad overall, but no better option in house, with Hedberg being awful

2013-14:  One good run, pretty bad the rest of the time

 

But yeah, I think just about every Devils fan is in agreement with you.  I've always defended Marty, but from now on, I don't want to hear a single peep out of him re:  2014-15 or the future.  I don't want to hear anything from re:  having a tough time when he gets a start because he's sitting behind Cory too much.  I really don't want to hear much from him at all right now, and that's not because I'm angry with him...it's because he's been mostly a subpar goalie since late November, and I want to hear from the guy who's starting the games, which should be Cory. 

 

I don't think the bold applies to yesterday's game, but if he's back here next season, then I agree with that assessment 100% and then some.  Lou has already seen first hand what happens when you let a diminished star run amok and act like everything happens on his terms (Mark Messier's final seasons with the Rangers), and if Lou allows that to happen here, his loses a lot of credibility in my eyes.  Lou has to tell Marty no.  If that means Marty goes out and actually finds someone else to sign him, so be it.  I don't know if 700 wins means anything to Marty, but it shouldn't.  For one, like you say, him chasing it next season and possibly beyond will lead more fans to call him a compiler, even though he really wasn't.  He also won't remembered as fondly, which is kind of a shame.  If he retires gracefully after this season, I think the outdoor debacle and the balance of this season and last are largely forgotten as footnotes of inevitable decline.  If he has to be forcibly pushed out the door, I don't think Devils fans will love him for it, but they'll forgive that too, as a guy who's competitive and driven, but just isn't seeing reality.  But if he's somehow back here next season, and Lou backs it, then I'm sorry, each one of them is hanging on to Fonzie's legs as he jumps the shark.   

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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I saw more 2 on 1's and 3 on 1's than I can remember since the "mickey mouse" years.  Marty wasn't great but the defense made him look like the old Marty (as opposed to the elderly Marty). :wink2:   Thank God it's only one game.

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He's not going to hit 700 wins this year, and I hope to GOD he doesn't try and do it here next year.

 

Let him sign in Montreal next year as a backup.  It'll suck for us to see him play somewhere else, but he can't be here next year.

 

Budaj is doing a great job and for cheaper than what Brodeur would be asking why would they do that?

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1. Carey Price

2. Peter Budaj

3. Zachary Fucale

 

all better than Martin Brodeur is right now. They want nothing to do with him

 

Fucale is an 18-year-old playing in the Q. You really think he's better than Brodeur right now?

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Budaj is doing a great job and for cheaper than what Brodeur would be asking why would they do that?

 

Legacy.  They'd probably sell about a million bucks worth of Brodeur jersey's in one season.

 

They could offset his contract cost in memorabilia sales alone :lol:

 

I don't know, I just hope SOMEONE else takes him.  He apparently had inquiries from a couple teams two years ago - maybe some GM out there is stupid enough to bring him on for leadership.

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Fucale is an 18-year-old playing in the Q. You really think he's better than Brodeur right now?

 

and playing very well in the Q. Yes I think he's better than Brodeur

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Budaj is doing a great job and for cheaper than what Brodeur would be asking why would they do that?

 

I hope Bergevin isn't that dumb but you never know, he hired Therrien. If Marty wants to come back I bet you there's a team out there looking at potential jersey sales and saying "...yep".

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The end of his career, no. He still has games left to this season, and he will get some starts. Cory can't start all remaining 29 games.

The end of him being the go-to guy, yes. It has to be. There's no excuses anymore. It was one thing when Hedberg was clearly finished last season, and there simply wasn't a better option. Now there is, and it's not even close. Cory is putting up numbers that rank with the NHL's best this season.

To me, it's really simple, what happens after this season. Lou and Marty are friends, and hopefully, both of them can see that Marty does not have it anymore, and Marty exits the game as gracefully as he can, for a guy who looks like he held on too long (even if he had some nice moments along the way in the last two seasons). If Marty thinks he can still play, Lou's got to tell him no. What's sad is I don't think Marty finds someone else to sign him this time, if he insists on going that route. Last time he signed a contract, he came off a 50-game stretch of .920 save% play. Last season, he was at .901, and this season he'll be about the same. His save% since 11/27 is .881, so it's not like he's going to end the season on a flourish. The other guy is doing just fine with the same players in front of him, so it's not like anyone can rightly say "Well, he's playing on a terrible team." And even if PDB somehow thinks that save%s don't matter, there is no disputing the fact that .900ish season save%s rank very low in today's NHL. He'll be 42 years old by the start of next season. Why would anyone sign him? I think everyone can see what we are. What sucks about this is I can see Marty having to be forced to retire not because he wanted to, but because no one was interested, which is pretty embarrassing for a guy of his stature. So yeah, I hope he leaves on his own, instead of people having to make the decision for him.

Your logic is correct. My argument was that nobody from the team is saying "gee, the Stadium Series game changed my mind". Your points were valid before that game was played.

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Legacy.  They'd probably sell about a million bucks worth of Brodeur jersey's in one season.

 

They could offset his contract cost in memorabilia sales alone :lol:

 

I don't know, I just hope SOMEONE else takes him.  He apparently had inquiries from a couple teams two years ago - maybe some GM out there is stupid enough to bring him on for leadership.

eh, unless that team is the habs, I dont think the draw will be quite that extreme.

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Your logic is correct. My argument was that nobody from the team is saying "gee, the Stadium Series game changed my mind". Your points were valid before that game was played.

 

And nobody will, though I think a lot of them know who gives them the best chance to win, even before the Stadium Series.  No one's going to trash Marty to the press and say, "Well, we got off to a strong start, then Marty gave up a bad one to make it 3-2...you know, Cory probably makes that save..."   

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and playing very well in the Q. Yes I think he's better than Brodeur

 

This is basically impossible.  Brodeur is right now a replacement level goalie, maybe a little above - it's not likely there is anyone like that in the Q.

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This is basically impossible.  Brodeur is right now a replacement level goalie, maybe a little above - it's not likely there is anyone like that in the Q.

 

Marty had a .938 save% in 5 games from 12/15-12/31.  No one from the Q is doing that.  I'm guessing most Q goalies would be lucky to survive one period in the NHL, let alone an entire game. 

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QFT from HFBoards:

 

 

People are really overstating how Marty played yesterday. Look at how the goals happened:

#1 - Four Devils get caught going the wrong direction, Rangers have a 2-on-1 down low and Moore scored undefended on the rebound while Marty gets driven back by a screen right in his face.

#2 - Bad on Brodeur, no two ways about it.

#3 - Rangers get a 2-on-1 from the red line, fail to stop the pass and it ends up going in at an unpredictable angle off Zuccarello's skate.

#4 - 3-on-1 from the red line due to an atrocious pinch, defenseman fails to stop the pass right across the goal mouth to the far post.

#5 - Deflection by a completely undefended Richards, causing the puck to reverse direction no more than 2-feet from the crease.

#6 - Bantam-league turnover at the blue line leads to yet another 3-on-1 from the red line in, with the Devils defenseman not only failing to stop any of the tic-tac-toe passes but also diving over Brodeur in the process.


1, 3, 4, 5, 6 are all inexcusable defensive breakdowns and likely to be a goal at the NHL level. If you want, go ahead and add #7 to the pile, a ridiculous turnover at the blue line leading to the penalty shot.

Sure, the second goal was bad on Brodeur. One bad goal out of 7 the Rangers scored in that game. The problem wasn't the goaltending, the problem was the Devils playing like hot garbage in all three zones. Nobody is going to win an NHL game making those kinds of turnovers and playing that badly in transition.

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If I can defend 7 for one moment.. the anger\backlash from fans is NOT because of the past or present.. it's due to the future! The uncertainty about whether or not this season's his last.. and fans are getting fed-up being pigeon held by a 42 year-old, who's only point in continuing to play seems to be an effort to further inflate his stats, to the point where (he feels) they're unattainable. It's bad enough to put DeBoer, Schneider, and the fans through this goaltending fiasco for ONE season. But to do it again next year?? --that's selfish. You want to continue your career?? --fine! But do it on somebody else's team.. not mine! (yeah, I just said that) We're fighting for a fvcking playoff spot god damn it.. and 100 years of conventional hockey says you; "stay with the hot goalie". You ride the guy who's white-hot.. and I had to see a goalie, who's been playing amazing with a Sv% near .930, ride the pine yesterday because this organization needed to feed the ego of ONE PERSON. A cold goalie who hadn't played in a week, playing a game in an environment less suitable for a player in his 40's, vs a player in his 20's. 

The Devils as an organization used to be untouchable.. not anymore. They preached team, they preached selflessness. They preached; "no ONE PLAYER is bigger than the franchise" for 30 years! --and all that went south yesterday, in an effort to turn a professional hockey team, into the Harlem Globetrotters.

 

*EDIT: What happens if Marty doesn't hit 700 even after next season? Does he come back again for 2016?? Is that how he'd want to be remembered.. as some compiler?? Because 700 wins off a career of 1991 - 2016, would be the definition of a compiler folks. --and if that's the endgame in Brodeur's head.. then have fun a blast ruining your career like Brett Favre!

 

 

This is not just about yesterday bro..

 

Brodeur:  28 GP,  2.52 GAA, .899 Sv% (ranked 40th in the NHL) --41 years old.

Schneider: 26 GP, 1.86 GAA, .927 Sv% (ranked 5th in the NHL) --27 years old.

 

..if it looks like I'm trying to make this seem overall simplistic, it's because it really is! Marty has been a .500 goalie (at best) since 2010. Over his last 250 games, he's manufactured 125 wins, since 2009. He can play the remaining back-to-backs, but THAT'S IT! I want to see this team ride Cory the rest of the way.

 

I think a lot of people share the same sentiment on this.  Schneider is the better goalie right now.  With that being said, Brodeur earned the start yesterday for everything he has done for the franchise.  It's not like he is some 60 yr old cripple that is a guaranteed loss whenever we put him in.  He is plenty capable of winning some hockey games. 

 

He did not play well yesterday, and neither did the Devils as a whole.  We most likely lose that game with Cory (and any other goaltender on the planet) in the net.  Some of the Rangers' rushes looked like stuff you usually only see on NHL14 on your X-Box.

 

Cory will get the bulk of the starts down the stretch for this team as he should.  It is Cory's net now and he will run with it.  But do not be one of those people that try to say it was outlandish for #30 to be in the yesterday, as if he had 0 chance of winning the game for us.  It's simply not the truth.

Which All-time record does Brodeur reach first....700 wins, or 400 losses  ??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Current record: 682-391

 

Current play would certainly suggest the 400 losses

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Its not about the goals against.   Though that will get everyone's attention due to the size.  There was never a moment where he looked comfortable with a shot coming his way.  He did not play anything clean.  There were rebounds galore, he was overplaying the shooters, and getting himself out of position.  There was nothing good about his game, we saw the bad lateral movement, the inability to get off his ass, the bad rebound control, mistakes playing the puck, and a weak 5 hole again.  He just looked terrible by any subjective measure as well.

 

The Devils played like a hot mess in the neutral zone and high in the rangers end, leading to far too many turnovers and chances against.  The D was aggressive all game long and got away with it in the first, but was crushed for it in the second.   Instead of playing their down low grinding style, the devils let the game evolve into a track meet, and they cant win that style of game.  But that brings up one of the big weaknesses in the lineup, the lack of speed in the lineup.  The moment the Rangers started on those odd man rushes, there was not a Devil player who was going to get back into the play.   Its unfortunate, but with this roster games like this are going to happen on occasion.  They just dont have the margin for error with games opening up.

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The only way Brodeur plays in the NHL next year is in a Devils jersey. No NHL team in their right mind will sign him. Nobody has to worry about him in a Habs or any other teams jersey because they all have starters and backups and guys stashed in the AHL better than Brodeur. If Marty wants to come back it's up to Lou to tell him the truth...that is if he has the guts to do so (to this point, I'm not sure he does)

 

If Brodeur is really that dead set on playing I'm sure a KHL or Euro league owner will be happy to give him millions and he can go play out the string there.

 

What Brodeur needs is to be humble and accepting. He's not a stupid guy. He needs to know that this year was the year to cede the spotlight to Cory from day one. To be the mentor to him that Terreri was to YOU

 

Did Terreri bitch and moan when you took his job? Did Terreri whine and cry after he saved our asses in Boston (and get this...won a playoff game in OT...something Brodeur rarely does) and then was back on the bench in favor of Brodeur?

 

The same is being expected of Brodeur and he is not delivering

 

You cannot forget that some teams may be willing to sign him from a marketing standpoint as opposed to the actual on-ice effort....the busine$$ of sport$

I saw more 2 on 1's and 3 on 1's than I can remember since the "mickey mouse" years.  Marty wasn't great but the defense made him look like the old Marty (as opposed to the elderly Marty). :wink2:   Thank God it's only one game.

 

THIS

 

Odd-man rush city...no goalie is going to withstand that

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Lundqvist looked like sh!t too. He just didn't face anything tough after the first.

 

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Legacy.  They'd probably sell about a million bucks worth of Brodeur jersey's in one season.

 

They could offset his contract cost in memorabilia sales alone :lol:

 

I don't know, I just hope SOMEONE else takes him.  He apparently had inquiries from a couple teams two years ago - maybe some GM out there is stupid enough to bring him on for leadership.

 

THIS.

 

Marketing possibilities galore.  Jersey and merch sales, possibliy tickets...

 

He would be a good voice in a locker room and would bring leadership to any team.  I wouldn't be surprised if a few teams were interested.

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Marty had a .938 save% in 5 games from 12/15-12/31.  No one from the Q is doing that.  I'm guessing most Q goalies would be lucky to survive one period in the NHL, let alone an entire game. 

 

 

Do you think it is that severe?

 

For instance, for lack of a better comparison/analogy...analysts have always said the best NCAA College Football team would get absolutely SMOKED by the worst NFL team....

 

Is the worst NHL goalie (not saying Marty is, but I am sure tons of people on this board would say he is) light years better than the BEST goalie in the Q?!?

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Marty was terrible, and it was sad to see given how much he has given us over the years, but it wasn't Marty giving up all of those 3 on 1's rushes in the 2nd period either.

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QFT from HFBoards:

 

This isn't about yesterday Colin. We don't need to breakdown goal by goal to see which ones were his fault or not. The key thing as an NHL goalie when you get left out to dry or face weird bounces is dealing with it and making some saves. It isn't always going to be easy out there, but you have to find a way. In the game prior, Schneider faced 3 breakaways or so and stopped them all. 

 

And as Sarge said, he never looked comfortable the entire game. He never looks comfortable. He is flopping and guessing nightly. In two games I felt the opposite feelings with both goalies. Against Washington, I felt Schneider was invincible and was not going to let in a single goal. Yesterday, I felt Brodeur was not going to make a save.

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Lundqvist looked like sh!t too. He just didn't face anything tough after the first.

 

 

It's a shame we couldn't test him after the 1st, because he did not look great at all

 

He had a cakewalk 2nd and 3rd period

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Colin, I agree completely that yesterday is not 100% on Marty, and shouldn't seen as such.  Clearly there was blame to go around.  I don't think anyone truly believes that the Devils come out of there with a win if Cory had started, the way they played as a team, especially in the 2nd period.   

 

But that doesn't change the fact that the numbers say it all...since the beginning of the 2013 season, with some exceptions, Marty just isn't good anymore...and as he's somehow gotten more starts than Cory, some fans are going to turn on him.  His complaining about the ice, whether he was right or wrong, isn't going to help his cause, even if all he's doing is answering a question about the ice, and not technically making excuses.    

 

 

Do you think it is that severe?

 

For instance, for lack of a better comparison/analogy...analysts have always said the best NCAA College Football team would get absolutely SMOKED by the worst NFL team....

 

Is the worst NHL goalie (not saying Marty is, but I am sure tons of people on this board would say he is) light years better than the BEST goalie in the Q?!?

 

At that point in most Q goalies' development, I'd say yeah.  Most of them are practically kids. 

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Wow.  What a total mental break down on pretty much everyone's part.

 

When you stock a team with "character guys" solely, this stuff happens.  Somehow the organization has confused character with loser. It's been a slow excruciatingly obvious shift for me.  I can't continue knocking the same guys over and over.  It just sucks when you have these talented vets do their job, set everyone up for a relaxed fun game - communication is flowing.  Guys on the cusp start seeing things -- and you know how fragile it all is and how some of the guys are not really in focus, but as a fan you have hope. Knowing the Devils of old, you feel fairly relaxed.

and then

 

Then all the fvckin' losers get all shocked and fvck everything up pressing trying to be the winners they are NOT.  They listen and nod and repeat it all back  then fvck EVERYTHING UP BECAUSE THEY ARE LOSERS!  NO ONE CAN GROW BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE A LOSERS!  DAMMIT - this is on Pete for not getting the fvckin' deadwood out of the locker room.  There is no such thing as an intangible at this point.  :argh:  if they're not bringing points they're bringing LOSERVILLE!

YOU SUCK!  RETIRE!  QUIT HOCKEY!   Just ask to go to the AHL. PUHLEASE. 

 

and I'm not even writing about Marty.    Marty is just Zelig -- he unconsciously adopts the prevailing mentality.  He has none of his own - he just mirrors what's out there.  That empathy allows him to read the game - but it also sucks him into loserdom.  the man is SOOO lucky to have been on the right team at the right time.  He's proven time and time again he is NOT in control of the locker room, or ANY game or even his own game.  If he weren't such a loud-mouthed opinionated fvck, the team might not have gotten into this state -- but whatever.  Here we are, right?

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QFT from HFBoards:

 

what a joke

 

1st goal - Brodeur too far off the post closest to Moore. Not a total disgrace...but a better goaltender either smothers that or knocks away the rebound

 

2nd goal - A total disgrace

 

3rd goal - not even a good deflection. Puck didn't exactly rocket into a corner. That puck was low on the ice. Brodeur slid passed it. Brodeur knew the deflection was coming. Played it poorly. Played it horrible with his stick. That stick has to be on the ice. Again he is sloppy covering low. Big gaping stick side hole

 

4th goal - Devils took away the shot early....Brodeur saw this and was too slow to get across and too far out of his net. Rag didn't even get good wood on it. Just slid it passed an out of position Brodeur

 

5th goal - Lazy stoppable floater that Brodeur just doesn't have the reflexes to stop anymore. Also played poorly as he needed to be about 2 inches further out. It hit him in the mask for gods sake!

 

6th goal - Nash doesn't get good wood on it but Brodeur is flopping and sliding everywhere. Brodeur misses it with his stick and it goes through a 3 foot five hole. sad. That wasn't a perfect corner snipe. 

Edited by '7'

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