SMantzas

GDT- New Jersey @ Dallas (The Stephen Gionta is a Top 6 Forward Editio

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Please provide some proof.

this is probably close to being true for 5v5.

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Please provide some proof.

 

That'll be hard.

 

Gelinas has been on ice for 28 goals against total (23 5v5), has 22 points...on ice for 39 goals total counting special teams. 

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this is probably close to being true for 5v5.

 

 

That'll be hard.

 

Gelinas has been on ice for 28 goals against total (23 5v5), has 22 points...on ice for 39 goals total counting special teams. 

 

Well Merrill is a -8 while Gelinas is a -5.

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Well Merrill is a -8 while Gelinas is a -5.

 

Merrill has a 95 PDO, Gelinas 99. 

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Well Merrill is a -8 while Gelinas is a -5.

this while gelinas has 22 points and Merrill 4. That right there should tell you the difference in defensive ability.

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this while gelinas has 22 points and Merrill 4. That right there should tell you the difference in defensive ability.

 

Gelinas has 8 non-PP points. This matter is A TINY BIT more nuanced than you make it out to be.

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this while gelinas has 22 points and Merrill 4. That right there should tell you the difference in defensive ability.

 

Powerplay points don't count towards +/-.  Gelinas has 9 ES points.  Merrill has 3 ES points.

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Gelinas has 8 non-PP points. This matter is A TINY BIT more nuanced than you make it out to be.

lol I know, I gave this exact stat earlier today in one of these threads(we are now discussing the same thing in 4 different threads)-because it further illustrates the problem- if we had a 60 minute powerplay then gelinas would be great to have, but his offensive production isn't there 5v5 to warrant his bad defense. If gelinas was really that much better offensively than Merrill and on the same level defensively as Merrill, then he would have more points and concievably a much better +/- (yes it's a flawed stat but I wasn't the one who brought it up here).

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lol I know, I gave this exact stat earlier today in one of these threads(we are now discussing the same thing in 4 different threads)-because it further illustrates the problem- if we had a 60 minute powerplay then gelinas would be great to have, but his offensive production isn't there 5v5 to warrant his bad defense. If gelinas was really that much better offensively than Merrill and on the same level defensively as Merrill, then he would have more points and concievably a much better +/- (yes it's a flawed stat but I wasn't the one who brought it up here).

 

Gelinas actually has the ability to make up for a goal against.  Merrill doesn't.  That's the issue in hand.

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Gelinas actually has the ability to make up for a goal against.  Merrill doesn't.  That's the issue in hand.

 

You are really grasping at straws at this point.

 

This also better not be part of the whole playing the devils advocate schtick you put on here all the time.

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Gelinas actually has the ability to make up for a goal against. Merrill doesn't. That's the issue in hand.

god I hope gelinas doesn't go out there thinking he needs to score to make up for something, that's exactly what his problem is to begin with- too offensive minded.

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You are really grasping at straws at this point.

 

This also better not be part of the whole playing the devils advocate schtick you put on here all the time.

 

I've actually provided proof though.

god I hope gelinas doesn't go out there thinking he needs to score to make up for something, that's exactly what his problem is to begin with- too offensive minded.

 

Scott Niedermayer

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I've actually provided proof though.

 

You are using +/-, which has been proven over and over again on here and other sources countless times to be the most pointless and overrated stat for hockey.

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You are using +/-, which has been proven over and over again on here and other sources countless times to be the most pointless and overrated stat for hockey.

 

It's still more proof than what you provided.

 

Gelinas and Merrill have almost identical Corsi and Fenwick numbers.  If we're using the eye test, the only thing Merrill has on Gelinas is skating.  Gelinas has actually shown good defensive abilities.  When he was paired with Larsson, Gelinas' defense was much better.  Merrill has been consistent, but he's been consistently mediocre in the defense department.

 

When you look at the whole picture, Merrill and Gelinas have been equal defensively.  But Gelinas has been far superior offensively.

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Scott Niedermayer

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this... That gelinas is similar to niedermayer? Because I can't think of a single similarity between the two other than they are both lhd. Or do you mean their statistics are similar?

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I'm not quite sure what you mean by this... That gelinas is similar to niedermayer? Because I can't think of a single similarity between the two other than they are both lhd. Or do you mean their statistics are similar?

 

Niedermayer was a defensive liability early on in his career.  He was never sent down because he brought a dynamic from the blue line that no other Devils dman did.

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Niedermayer was a defensive liability early on in his career.  He was never sent down because he brought a dynamic from the blue line that no other Devils dman did.

i think it's very difficult to compare the two seeing as how it's a totally different team and era- that team had plenty of quality responsible defensemen, this team does not. I'll admit I wasn't around to see those early years live, so if you were then ill concede to your opinion.

Look I would have agreed with your assessment if you asked me 2 months ago, but look at gelinas' numbers over the past month and he has been brutal, that's putting it lightly.

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i think it's very difficult to compare the two seeing as how it's a totally different team and era- that team had plenty of quality responsible defensemen, this team does not. I'll admit I wasn't around to see those early years live, so if you were then ill concede to your opinion.

Look I would have agreed with your assessment if you asked me 2 months ago, but look at gelinas' numbers over the past month and he has been brutal, that's putting it lightly.

 

Key words in your post:  PAST MONTH

 

One month long stretch is not a reason to crucify a player the way he has been.

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Key words in your post:  PAST MONTH

 

One month long stretch is not a reason to crucify a player the way he has been.

I don't think anyone is crucifying him, just saying he is not the best option right now. Give Merrill the same chance you gave gelinas and let's see how he does. In the meantime let gelinas play in the A to work on his defense rather than stay up here and be limited to a pp specialist.

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About equal defensively? Gelly can't cover his man or get the puck out of the zone. We all love gelly but he's a liability on his own end. Merril not do much.

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I don't think anyone is crucifying him, just saying he is not the best option right now. Give Merrill the same chance you gave gelinas and let's see how he does. In the meantime let gelinas play in the A to work on his defense rather than stay up here and be limited to a pp specialist.

 

Why should I give Merrill time when you haven't given Gelinas any time?  You're basing your opinion of Gelinas off of a 20 game stretch.  I'm basing my opinion of Merrill off of a 28 game stretch.

About equal defensively? Gelly can't cover his man or get the puck out of the zone. We all love gelly but he's a liability on his own end. Merril not do much.

 

The numbers don't lie my friend.  Merrill is just as "bad" defensively as Gelinas.

Edited by Mike Brown

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Remember when Patty and Jagr used to be tied for the all-time league lead in game-winning OT goals? Then Jagr eventually re-took the lead by a few goals at least. It's about time Patty got one. I don't think he had scored one in a long time, although I'm not sure.

 

Wow, Cangialosi said tonight (Jan. 31, Devils-Predators) that Elias' OT goal versus the Stars was his first since December 2008. That's a little over five years ago. He now has 16 OT goals, good for second place in the NHL all-time. Jagr is first all-time with 18 OT goals. Five years ago, Patty was either tied with Jagr (who was out of the league at the time) for the all-time lead or one behind him; I can't remember which.

 

Either way, it's amazing that Elias went that long without scoring in OT and still ranks second all-time.

Edited by 95Crash

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Wow, Cangialosi said tonight (Jan. 31, Devils-Predators) that Elias' OT goal versus the Stars was his first since December 2008. That's a little over five years ago. He now has 16 OT goals, good for second place in the NHL all-time. Jagr is first all-time with 18 OT goals. Five years ago, Patty was either tied with Jagr (who was out of the league at the time) for the all-time lead or one behind him; I can't remember which.

 

Either way, it's amazing that Elias went that long without scoring in OT and still ranks second all-time.

 

Speaking of #26...14 goals to 400, 23 assists to 600, 37 points to 1000, 69 games to 1200.  Provided he stays healthy, he gets to all of those numbers sometime next year.  He could possibly get the 400-600-1000 milestones all in the same game...that would be a hell of a game to go to.

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