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Daniel

Fire DeBoer Thread

305 posts in this topic

Not a joke. Like I said, I don't think he should be, but more and more people are saying the opposite. It's gets thrown into every other thread, so I figured it made sense to start something where it can all be discussed in one plac.

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If that's the case, then thanks for starting this topic, Daniel.    But, I haven't seen anyone make the case to fire him yet in this thread.    

 

A lot of moaning and groaning, but nothing concrete.     For those of you that think Deboer needs to go, I have one name for you:  John Maclean

All I'll say is this

 

Plenty of Devils coaches have done better and still gotten canned. It is odd how Lou has stuck with Deboer when Robinson and Julien got fired for reasons most of us still don't understand.

 

He did have the Cup run...but he's also likely going to miss the playoff consecutive years

 

 

Never understood the Julien firing myself.

 

He is may not make the playoffs for consecutive years, but he also has been hamstrung with a mediocre line-up that plays hard, but lacks the talent.

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You say it's a rebuilding and yet you want Pete here for that? Does not compute. I'm under the impression that we are rebuilding as well and that's the main reason I want Pete gone. He has shown time and time again that he can't handle young players. If this is going to turn into the rebuilding it needs to be, he has to go before he ruins every young player we have to the point of no return.

 

Tell that to Gelinas, Merrill, Tedenby, JJ and Boucher, etc.   DeBoer has given the kids multiple opportunities to prove themselves and most of them just aren't ready for the big time yet.

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Here's my thing about DeBoer- I know I bitch about him a lot. But I actually do think he's a good hockey coach. The players have not quit on him. They play for him. I'm not completely convinced he should be fired YET, although my frustration gets the best of me after games like last night. Its his lineup decisions that are giving me grey hairs. I just don't know what he sees with some of his decisions on who to play and how much ice time they should get (Gionta and Sal come immediately to mind). And I like Gionta too, I don't mean to rip on him as much as I do- but he's nothing more than a fourth line plug, and Pete thinks he's his brother sometimes. Drives me insane. That's my conflict on Pete- good coach and I like him personally, but sh!tty with young players, and makes bone-headed line-up decisions.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself man!

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I posted in the last GDT that it won't be long before everyone gets on Lou Lams case this thread is missed named this is the start of the negative Lou Lams thread. Have at it Devils fans. Lou Lams is a control freak that has his hands on everything 100% he allowed the goalie contrivesary he gave DeBoer the players, he controls who go to the AHL and who comes back and he writes the contracts, and selects the Captain.

Devils fans you're moving in the right direction .

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I'd like to see Lou make a few moves before firing Pete. Use that last compliance buyout on either Volch or Salvador and try to land someone like Stastny this offseason. Give him one more year with a solid roster.

Why bother when he doesn't even play talent where he has it?

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Tell that to Gelinas, Merrill, Tedenby, JJ and Boucher, etc. DeBoer has given the kids multiple opportunities to prove themselves and most of them just aren't ready for the big time yet.

A coach is supposed to teach and instruct. Alarming is how now multiple players have indicated there is no communication or instruction coming from this coaching staff. Deboer was criticized for this in Florida and even back in juniors. He's never gonna change .

I'm never a fan of firing a coach who isn't provided with the tools needed to win. When you lose Parise and Kovy and don't replace either of them with anyone even approaching their level, you aren't going to be successful.

Good coaches find a way.

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funny, i have very little issue with pdb. he's working with the hand he's dealt and i truly believe that lou controls that roster 100% with regards to who is on it. plus, if lou wanted josefson playing (or loktionov), they'd be playing. i can tell you that the players like pdb. and that's not because he's a "players coach" who lets them get away with murder. he's not. everyone knows that this is lou's team and will be until he's gone (not that i'm advocating that).

if this team misses the playoffs this year, the fault would lie on bad shootouts that no coach can fix and an over reliance on marty which no coach could handle better than pete at this point.

i am for stability.

Well if you are for keeping Lou, you are also for senility. And there is no stability here the last few years or with how Rip van Winkle runs his roster.

I'm for change and for winning.

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If this team had won 4 shootouts, absolutely no one but loons like coldply would be talking about firing DeBoer.  They might be unhappy with some of his roster choices - I certainly am - but I defy you to find a coach where the fans aren't upset.

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This is one of the most rational threads I've seen in recent weeks anywhere. 

 

Finally some people are giving DeBoer some credit, considering Lou hooked him up with a 3rd and 4th liner team. Considering our 36 and 42 year olds are the leading scorers, there's a problem with our roster, not the coach, and that's on Lou.

 

 

Plenty of Devils coaches have done better and still gotten canned. It is odd how Lou has stuck with Deboer when Robinson and Julien got fired for reasons most of us still don't understand.

 

I think this is Lou's way of acknowledging that the current state of the team is his and Conte's fault. A new coach might only make things worse considering the D-quality roster we have at their disposal (outside of Schneider who may be our only "elite" player right now and moving forward).

Edited by DJ Eco

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We could use stability behind the bench, and Pete is a devil type coach in my opinion. everyone gets on him for his lack of emotion during games, but the coach should be level headed for the most part. I loved his confrontation with tortorella, but generally I think the coach needs to be a calming presence and keep the group focused.

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I don't mind his calm demeanor. We have so many veterans, he shouldn't have to get angry to prove his point. It worked so well for Tortorella, right?

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A coach is supposed to teach and instruct. Alarming is how now multiple players have indicated there is no communication or instruction coming from this coaching staff. Deboer was criticized for this in Florida and even back in juniors. He's never gonna change .

Good coaches find a way.

 

No, the minor league is for teaching and instruction.   Young players need to be prepared for the speed and the grind at the major league level.   

 

NHL Head coaches are more tacticians and strategists than "teachers" at the NHL level.   Players at the NHL level need the rudiments.  

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This is one of the most rational threads I've seen in recent weeks anywhere. 

 

I think this is Lou's way of acknowledging that the current state of the team is his and Conte's fault. A new coach might only make things worse considering the D-quality roster we have at their disposal (outside of Schneider who may be our only "elite" player right now and moving forward).

 

I agree.   We haven't drafted an impact forward since Zach.   There is not alot of talent upfront to choose from.   I love Boucher, but he is still not ready yet.   Would love to see Matteau in the next year or so.

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If this team had won 4 shootouts, absolutely no one but loons like coldply would be talking about firing DeBoer.  They might be unhappy with some of his roster choices - I certainly am - but I defy you to find a coach where the fans aren't upset.

 

If PDB didn't feel he had to pander to Marty earlier in the season and played Cory a few times more, and screw 4 shootout wins, I'd take 3 - we'd be in a playoff spot - which is all that people care about.

 

It's the roster's mediocrity, not Pete's.

 

If there's an issue with development, etc - that's on Lou to an extent, and I'd even say the assistant coaches.

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I agree.   We haven't drafted an impact forward since Zach.   There is not alot of talent upfront to choose from.   I love Boucher, but he is still not ready yet.   Would love to see Matteau in the next year or so.

 

I see Matteau as a future Zubrus (which would be a good thing). A big serviceable body upfront, nothing too flashy. But yeah, outside of Boucher (who isn't ready yet), we don't have any Parises coming up anytime soon, while most of the teams around us do, and HAVE made the right draft selections all these years.

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PDB has two huge faults. His mismanagement of young players, especially the D-Men, and his love for Gionta. Other than that, I like what he's done as a coach. Nobody was crying about PDB when we HAD the trio of players that we lost over the last two years. It's no secret, our personnel has gotten worse since 2012, no reason to fire DeBoer. He does all he can as a coach, he puts the team in a position to win every night, but he can't shoot the puck for them

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PDB is a good coach, but this team is lacking in discipline. We had teams in the recent past with similar talent. but they had strong discipline. They didn't constantly blow assignments.

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The thing I really wonder with this team is where the real problem lies. Yes, they're not that good, but they're better than this. Is Lou forcing Pete's hand in who he plays and when? Is Pete just really someone who plays favorites and stifles young talent? Is Stevens an awful defensive coach who has ruined what was essentially the same defense we had during the Cup run? Is it some combo of all of the above? We'll never know, but there's a problem somewhere in there that needs to be figured out because between the defensive breakdowns, line-up/coaching decisions, and overall inconsistency in handling the roster I just have to wonder what is actually going on behind the scenes.

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A coach is supposed to teach and instruct. Alarming is how now multiple players have indicated there is no communication or instruction coming from this coaching staff. Deboer was criticized for this in Florida and even back in juniors. He's never gonna change .

Good coaches find a way.

I've fired many a worker in my day, and "well, I wasnt trained" is the number one excuse they claim for their poor performance. and thats EXACTLY what it is, AN EXCUSE. the devils run one of the tightest, disciplined systems in all of hockey, hell, all of sports, your telling me pete's not communicating with them???

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The thing I really wonder with this team is where the real problem lies. Yes, they're not that good, but they're better than this. Is Lou forcing Pete's hand in who he plays and when? Is Pete just really someone who plays favorites and stifles young talent? Is Stevens an awful defensive coach who has ruined what was essentially the same defense we had during the Cup run? Is it some combo of all of the above? We'll never know, but there's a problem somewhere in there that needs to be figured out because between the defensive breakdowns, line-up/coaching decisions, and overall inconsistency in handling the roster I just have to wonder what is actually going on behind the scenes.

Dude, it's so much simpler. We lost Kovalchuk, Parise, and Clarkson, all 30 goal scorers. If you watch the games, we're the same team as we were in 2012, just minus the goals.

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Dude, it's so much simpler. We lost Kovalchuk, Parise, and Clarkson, all 30 goal scorers. If you watch the games, we're the same team as we were in 2012, just minus the goals.

 

It doesn't explain the defensive breakdowns, unless we're just gonna say Bryce and Volch fell off a fvcking cliff, which hey, is possible. It also doesn't explain the decisions. I'm talking about this year's team in a bubble. fvck those guys. They're not even worth talking about because they don't effect the handling of this year's roster (and I still prefer Clowe to Clarkson anyway but that's neither here nor there). They don't explain Harrold over Fayne. They don't explain Larsson in the minors. It doesn't explain why some guys could literally put the puck in our own net and not suffer consequences while others are punished for looking the wrong way. Plus, I still say Robinson and Oates were bigger losses to this team and its future than Parise and Clarkson. I'm not gonna mention Kovy because there was no way to handle that this offseason based on the timing. I'll judge that based on what Lou does THIS offseason.

Edited by PWW

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It doesn't explain the defensive breakdowns, unless we're just gonna say Bryce and Volch fell off a fvcking cliff, which hey, is possible. It also doesn't explain the decisions. I'm talking about this year's team in a bubble. fvck those guys. They're not even worth talking about because they don't effect the handling of this year's roster (and I still prefer Clowe to Clarkson anyway but that's neither here nor there). They don't explain Harrold over Fayne. They don't explain Larsson in the minors. It doesn't explain why some guys could literally put the puck in our own net and not suffer consequences while others are punished for looking the wrong way. Plus, I still say Robinson and Oates were bigger losses to this team and it's future than Parise and Clarkson. I'm not gonna mention Kovy because there was no way to handle that this offseason based on the timing. I'll judge that based on what Lou does THIS offseason.

You're right, it doesn't explain the defensive breakdowns. Volch and Sal are both two years older, and when you reach a certain age, each year matters even more. But come on, it's not like we're giving up five goals every night. This teams number one problem is that it can't score goals. If we had those three, or two, or even one scorer back we'd be in a lot better shape.

 

I do agree, the assistant coaching has gotten significantly worse, but what are you going to do, Oates and Robinson were a dream team of assistant coaches

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You know what though, here's the thing (and forgive me if this has already been said, but I don't want to read the rest of this thread right now):

Pete's not paid to develop talent.  Pete's paid to win now.  I mean, you'd like to think he'd help the team get better in the future, but, for all he knows, he won't be here for it.  So why would he play young, developing players (who will bring along rookie mistakes that will cost games, there's no denying it) to make the team better two years from now when he might be gone after this season?  I get this mentality, especially with Lou's "WE NEVER REBUILD" method.

 

Now, what I don't understand is why he thinks playing Gionta in the top-6 and Salvador in key moments gives the team the best chance to win.  Gionta is a hard worker, leaves it all on the ice, yada yada.  Yeah, you need guys like him, but he's offensively...challenged.  He has no scoring ability - play him in a 4th line role like he needs to be.  Salvador..don't even get me started.  He should be getting 3rd pairing minutes at best.  His roster decisions are what drive me insane.

 

He's done a good job with this relatively bad roster - I mean, we're still in the playoff discussion in February.  That's pretty impressive, when most people had the Devils pegged for dead last.

Edited by Devilsfan118

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PDB is a good coach, but this team is lacking in discipline. We had teams in the recent past with similar talent. but they had strong discipline. They didn't constantly blow assignments.

 

He's a mediocre to poor coach.  He's not even average.  He's a good manager.  That's it.  He "manages".  He doesn't coach however.  His philosophy and system are pretty straightforward and mundane.  Any coach can be given a bunch of elite forwards and excellent depth like we had in 2012 and run to the Cup (and Devils fans need to stop hiding from the fact that we were extremely luckier than usually needed to advance).

He's bad at communicating adjustments and developing young talent and if discipline is an issue, that's entirely on the coach.

Dude, it's so much simpler. We lost Kovalchuk, Parise, and Clarkson, all 30 goal scorers. If you watch the games, we're the same team as we were in 2012, just minus the goals.

 

That's such a load of nonsense you just posted and you need to learn why if you expect to ever understand anything at all about hockey from a team perspective.

No, the minor league is for teaching and instruction.   Young players need to be prepared for the speed and the grind at the major league level.   

 

NHL Head coaches are more tacticians and strategists than "teachers" at the NHL level.   Players at the NHL level need the rudiments.  

 

Well, thats a pretty stark indictment of our scouting/development, is it not?  Guess who oversees that?  Where is the accountability?

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