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Daniel

Fire DeBoer Thread

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I've never said "just anybody else" or "anything".  

 

Boy, you are rich.  I mean really.  Using big words and stats to try and crush any opposing opinion or dissatisfaction with the team.  You just enjoy being a contrarian.  I may be exceedingly negative and demanding, but I don't frankly care.  You can call me loony all you want.  The results speak for themselves and watching this team over a whole season, coaching is a major issue and has been intricately involved in the events leading to a number of losses.  There's no denial of that by others on this board.  Has Deboer been given a great hand to work with?  Heck no.  But guess what, there's a lot of other teams with bad hands who are doing better than us.  

 

We are failing in spectacular fashion on the shootouts and some of his shootout choices show little to no effort from a coaching perspective.  I was at the Blue Jackets game several weeks ago and it was clear Deboer paid no attention to the lack of familiarity.  The shootout is not as simple as people think it is (as someone who played hockey can tell you, and Jagr himself has alluded to this).  

 

'Little to no effort from a coaching perspective?'  He has tried 9 different guys.  

 

I'd love to hear about these teams with less talent doing better than NJ.

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Larsson's hit was by Subban. I was sitting right in front of it. 

 

 

But as far as DeBoer is concerned, if we don't play well or win the last 3 games before the olympic break, or give up leads like we did in Dallas and Nashville, I wouldn't be opposed to fire Pete.  

 

What about bringing Laviolette.?

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I've never said "just anybody else" or "anything".  

 

Boy, you are rich.  I mean really.  Using big words and stats to try and crush any opposing opinion or dissatisfaction with the team.  You just enjoy being a contrarian.  I may be exceedingly negative and demanding, but I don't frankly care.  You can call me loony all you want.  The results speak for themselves and watching this team over a whole season, coaching is a major issue and has been intricately involved in the events leading to a number of losses.  There's no denial of that by others on this board.  Has Deboer been given a great hand to work with?  Heck no.  But guess what, there's a lot of other teams with bad hands who are doing better than us.  

 

We are failing in spectacular fashion on the shootouts and some of his shootout choices show little to no effort from a coaching perspective.  I was at the Blue Jackets game several weeks ago and it was clear Deboer paid no attention to the lack of familiarity.  The shootout is not as simple as people think it is (as someone who played hockey can tell you, and Jagr himself has alluded to this).  

What teams have bad hands that are doing better? The Devils lost Kovalchuk unexpectedly after planning their future  around him. While this may help long term, it left them with huge roster issues. Most experts had them finishing near last in the east. Instead, they're right in the playoff race, despite playing a tough schedule. DeBoer has done an admirable job getting new faces used to each other/his system, weathering the storm early in the season, dealing with Marty's ego, and keeping the team playing hard, even when things go badly. He has played Sal and Volch way too much, at the expense of guys like Merrill and Larsson. That's one serious shortcoming, and a ton of good things. He's far from a perfect coach, but he's better than any coach we've seen except Burns, and maybe Lemaire (though Lemaire had some terrible stretches, in addition to some great ones). I don't know that you'll find a better coach right now. 

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Wasn't the big hit on Larsson by PK Subban?

 

For some reason I keep thinking it was Simmonds.

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The reason I want PDB fired are for the following points:

1. He does not bring a winning mentaility, he has excuses and positive outlooks, not realistic outlooks and does not hold key people responsible. Holding people responsible means benching and scratching key members when they make mistakes worst then some of the rookies on this team.

2. Bone Headed decisions, this goes all the way back to the beginning of this season as well as last season. We all know JJ had an excellent pre-season deserving of a spot on the team for game 1, yet he was scratched in favor of Gio. I dont hate Gio but he is overrated by this coach because of favoritism.

3. Player Development, under this coach all our rookies have regressed and lost confidence and our future core damaged.

 

If you look at PDB, he is at best capable of building a team that will always be a fringe playoff team, i.e., 9th or 10th spot. No better. I think first year was s imply a fluke. Explain this, this year's team is better than last year's team and in a weaker division then last year's. Yet we are performing in the same capacity as last year. Now for those of you who will talk about new players etc, look no further than the rangers who have a new coach and a new system and the Canucks also in the same boat and they are both outperforming the Devils by far.

Edited by Anhkheg

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You're presuming that because a player was drafted in the first round and/or pundits said they would be really good, means that it's just coaching that's slowing them down. It could be that Larsson, Josefson and Loktionov are not that good, or at least not as good as they were projected to be.

And with Larsson, for all those that are upset that Marty has cost the Devils points, you could basically chalk up at least two or three awful turnovers in the defensive zone to Larsson every night. Maybe that'll will be worked out in his stay in Albany or over the next couple of seasons. But please let's not try and glamorize the past and pretend there's a Nikkas Lidstrom in him trying to get out if only DeBoer was a little gentler with his psyche.

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I don't think anyone is assuming that just because a player was drafted in the 1st round it's the coaching holding them back. To say that it "could be that Larsson and Josefson aren't that good" doesn't make sense to me. To even say that Larsson has been detrimental to the team like Brodeur has also doesn't make sense to me. How about Salvador and his turnovers? Or that the Devils rarely can retain possession on his zone exits? Surely Larsson is better than the job Salvador has been doing. My issue is more with Lou. Why hasn't he cleared up the logjam yet? Larsson shouldn't be in the minors right now.

Also I think it's important to remember that Larsson is only 21. He's shown he belongs at the NHL level and is only going to get better imo. I don't think we will see his best for a few more years. I'm not saying he's the next Lidstrom at all but I think he is going to be a very above average D for a long time in this league.

With Josefson I don't get why they rushed him to the NHL at age 19. Some will say he was he was able to perform at a NHL level and the Devils needed a forward but in what was a lost year, I think they would've been better off letting him have the year in the AHL and signing/acquiring a fringe NHL vet for the spot. If they did that he would be playing in the AHL right now instead of playing 2 decent games in 5 weeks and then being removed from the line up. With the linemates he's had and sporadic playing time this year, I don't know what type of offense they were expecting from him. I'm frustrated with DeBoer's handling of Josefson but more upset at Lou over his handling of Josefson's development these past few years.

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Does anyone seriously think Pete is the final say on the personnel decisions regarding young players? (Or any player for that matter). If you want to complain about that there is only one person who the buck stops with and that's Lou. IMO a lthough he isn't perfect and has made plenty of mistakes in the past ill trust him to do the right thing more often than not.

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The reason I want PDB fired are for the following points:

1. He does not bring a winning mentaility, he has excuses and positive outlooks, not realistic outlooks and does not hold key people responsible. Holding people responsible means benching and scratching key members when they make mistakes worst then some of the rookies on this team.

2. Bone Headed decisions, this goes all the way back to the beginning of this season as well as last season. We all know JJ had an excellent pre-season deserving of a spot on the team for game 1, yet he was scratched in favor of Gio. I dont hate Gio but he is overrated by this coach because of favoritism.

3. Player Development, under this coach all our rookies have regressed and lost confidence and our future core damaged.

 

If you look at PDB, he is at best capable of building a team that will always be a fringe playoff team, i.e., 9th or 10th spot. No better. I think first year was s imply a fluke. Explain this, this year's team is better than last year's team and in a weaker division then last year's. Yet we are performing in the same capacity as last year. Now for those of you who will talk about new players etc, look no further than the rangers who have a new coach and a new system and the Canucks also in the same boat and they are both outperforming the Devils by far.

IMO he trusts Sal and Volch too much, but otherwise, he's been willing to bench guys. I don't know the JJ is a 4th liner. I have a problem with Gio getting 2nd line minutes, but I have no problem with him playing on the 4th line rather than JJ. Not all of our rookies have regressed -- Larsson was better this year before the injury than he was the past 2. We may not like where he is, but he has certainly not regressed. Gelly did a great job until the league figured him out, which happens to everyone. Merrill has improved. JJ has without question regressed, but I'm willing ot withhold judgment, because he may not be that good, and, as has been said by others, Lou has not done a great job managing him.

 

Rangers have Rick Nash, a defensive core that has played together, and Lundquist. Canucks have the Sedins, Kesler, and again, a defensive core that has played together. Those were both good situations for a new coach -- they had good personnel, that had started to tune their coaches out. If you think Tortorella would be a better coach than DeBoer, I don't know what to tell you. And the Devils are right by the Rags in the standings, and are 3-1 against them, so I don't buy that the Rags are outplaying them by far.

 

DeBoer's not perfect, but the grass always looks greener. In general, we've been spoiled, because it's been a LONG time since the team wasn't very talented. IMO this team is moving in the right direction with Schneider and the D. Hopefully Boucher is a big time scorer, and they can build up the offense, but right now, we're not where we need to be, and that's not on DeBoer. I don't know that it's on anybody, but this team has a better record than they should.

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And with Larsson, for all those that are upset that Marty has cost the Devils points, you could basically chalk up at least two or three awful turnovers in the defensive zone to Larsson every night. Maybe that'll will be worked out in his stay in Albany or over the next couple of seasons. But please let's not try and glamorize the past and pretend there's a Nikkas Lidstrom in him trying to get out if only DeBoer was a little gentler with his psyche.

 

IMO he's gotten better with that, or had before the injury. And I'd rather have Larsson's turnovers than Sal and Volch, who are so immobile, they get beat even when they don't do much wrong (especially Sal lately).

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Corey named the starter vs Colorado. I'm happy he's starting the better goalie 3 out of 4 games now.

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For me im not really pissed at decisions that turned bad, cause that will always happen to anyone and it's mostly always a gamble.

 

Whats pissing me off is decisions made out of stubbornness and THATS a specialty of Lou and DeBoer. And basicaly the reason this team has gone to sh!t in the last 2 years

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Pete has established Cory as the number 1 guy.  I think it's pretty official by now.

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Josefson and Loktionov have sucked all year. I have no problem with either of them being scratched or benched.

 

Bingo.    Deboer has given the kids a chance, they just aren't ready.

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lol, Knew someone would come back with that simple retort, . never said it was a constant problem. but if you tell me you have a perfect hiring record I'll tell you your full of it

 

point still stands, the claim that these players arent being coached up is nonsense.  let lou can debo and take the reins!! I dare him!

 

You said: "I've fired many a worker in my day, and "well, I wasnt trained" is the number one excuse".   "Many" implies it is an ongoing problem, which says more about business management than it does about the fired workers.   

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IMO he's gotten better with that, or had before the injury. And I'd rather have Larsson's turnovers than Sal and Volch, who are so immobile, they get beat even when they don't do much wrong (especially Sal lately).

Given the low shots against and good penalty kill, they're obviously doing something right.

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Given the low shots against and good penalty kill, they're obviously doing something right.

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I'll give you the PK. While the shots against are low, they give up a lot of quality shots, which is a concern. They need to be perfect to do their jobs. Because they're both smart vets, they often are, but a faster player can fix a mistake. If Sal or Volch get any slower, like playing through an injury, likely considering how physical they both are, they become completely worthless.

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You said: "I've fired many a worker in my day, and "well, I wasnt trained" is the number one excuse".   "Many" implies it is an ongoing problem, which says more about business management than it does about the fired workers.

overly simplistic.

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Stephen Gionta is one of the better F/O men on the team. As long as most of his zone starts are in the offensive zone then I'm fine with him.

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Stephen Gionta is one of the better F/O men on the team. As long as most of his zone starts are in the offensive zone then I'm fine with him.

That's a joke about Gionta's faceoffs, right?

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Stephen Gionta is one of the better F/O men on the team. As long as most of his zone starts are in the offensive zone then I'm fine with him.

 

How bout he's the last guy who should be getting offensive zone faceoffs. You give those to the Elias/Henrique/Jagr lines, not the one that can't score. And that's disregarding the fact that faceoffs have been shown to basically be inconsequential overall

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Stephen Gionta is one of the better F/O men on the team. As long as most of his zone starts are in the offensive zone then I'm fine with him.

Wait..what? First of all, Zajac is our best faceoff man. But second of all, what the fvck kind of reasoning is that? You deem that he's "one of our better" face-off men, but keep him away from defensive zone faceoffs. when face-off wins are most important?

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Stephen Gionta is one of the better F/O men on the team. As long as most of his zone starts are in the offensive zone then I'm fine with him.

Zajac: 53.1% (904)

Zubrus: 51.7% (259)

Josefson: 48.6% (111)

Henrique: 44.7% (723)

Loktionov: 42.1% (280)

Gionta: 41.2% (376)

Elias: 41.0% (422)

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