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Fire DeBoer Thread

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One thing I will say, is that DeBoer is beginning to lose the locker room. Not good.

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Well so far it's one player (and a rent-a-legend at that), maybe two if you count Marty that are unhappy with Pete at this point.  At least among the vets.  Of course if you start ticking the vets off you don't have much of a base of support since Pete sure as shooting doesn't have the young guys in his corner - aside from maybe Henrique.

 

The old Lou would have called Jagr up for a spanking but I don't know that the hibernating version of Lou's going to do anything.  Especially since Jagr happens to be RIGHT lol

 

The better for who?  Jagr's had his best season in a few years with the Devils largely with that line and Zajac's been better offensively than he's been in three years.  Not great mind you but better than the ZERO he'd been in the offensive zone before he and Jagr got put together.

 

well not because only 2 of the guys who can afford to say something actually went out and said something. Dont you think Larsson,Josefson, Fayne and all those guys would have a lot to say about DeBoer if you'd ask them in private? 

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One thing I will say, is that DeBoer is beginning to lose the locker room. Not good.

Calling bullsh!t on this. Unless you're in that locker room there's no way of knowing

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Calling bullsh!t on this. Unless you're in that locker room there's no way of knowing

 

Whether you call it 'bullsh!t' or not, it's fact. You are losing control of the locker room when your leading scorer says about being juggled around the lines,

 

 

It doesn’t make sense to me and I don’t want to talk about it either,” 

 

 

and then sarcastically:

 

“That makes sense. Me and Travis, we didn’t score many.”

 

 

and then...

 

“I’ve got a lot, but I’m not going to say it,” Jagr said. “I’m just looking for peace in my body.” 

 

 

and....

 

When asked his thoughts on playing with Loktionov, Jagr said, “I don’t know. I don’t think I have an answer for you today. I don’t know what to say. I don’t understand a lot of things, so…”

 

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Losing Jagr does not equal losing the locker room, Jagr's been here half a season.


well not because only 2 of the guys who can afford to say something actually went out and said something. Dont you think Larsson,Josefson, Fayne and all those guys would have a lot to say about DeBoer if you'd ask them in private? 

 

Of course they would, but you're not basing the coach losing the locker room on what a few marginal players think.

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Losing Jagr does not equal losing the locker room, Jagr's been here half a season.

 

Of course they would, but you're not basing the coach losing the locker room on what a few marginal players think.

Do you think Schneider is as happily looking at the faces around him in the dressing room, now, than in the beginning of the season, before they supplied him with no goal support and allowed far too many late leads slip away? In some regards, I'm sure things are fine in some regards, but a room full of frustrated individuals is rarely a successful one

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Losing Jagr does not equal losing the locker room, Jagr's been here half a season.

 

Of course they would, but you're not basing the coach losing the locker room on what a few marginal players think.

 

"beginning to lose the locker room"

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Can we wait to play one game until we declare the "lockeroom is lost" if we win 5-1 on Friday with these lines I guarantee you nobody in the lockeroom is complaining.

The only thing that threatens "losing a lockeroom" (what does that even mean really?) is losing. Results are all that matter.

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Can we wait to play one game until we declare the "lockeroom is lost" if we win 5-1 on Friday with these lines I guarantee you nobody in the lockeroom is complaining.

The only thing that threatens "losing a lockeroom" (what does that even mean really?) is losing. Results are all that matter.

 

Another person who takes a quote and distorts it. No one said the "locker room is lost". It might even totally turn around. You waste everyone's time if you start debating things no one is arguing.

 

As far as your second point goes, well, it's unoriginal and fallacious. We all know winning is the most important thing, please don't present the point in a didactic matter. Just because winning makes things better does not make false the arguments about a coach losing a locker room when not winning. It is still a coach's duty to maintain the players' unity when losing, winning, or somewhere in between.

Edited by Neb00rs

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Can we wait to play one game until we declare the "lockeroom is lost"?

 

..because we don't need to. There's little need to dissect each and every quote without knowing the score on this one. The title of this thread is; "Fire DeBoer" -and 193 wins in 433 games coached is enough of a reason for me to not consider bringing him back for a 7th NHL season. -Sorry!

This organization was never satisfied with mediocrity (go ask Claude Juilen) ..it's a shame we've gotten used to it somewhere over the last 4 seasons.

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Another person who takes a quote and distorts it. No one said the "locker room is lost". It might even totally turn around. You waste everyone's time if you start debating things no one is arguing.

As far as your second point goes, well, it's unoriginal and fallacious. We all know winning is the most important thing, please don't present the point in a didactic matter. Just because winning makes things better does not make false the arguments about a coach losing a locker room when not winning. It is still a coach's duty to maintain the players' unity when losing, winning, or somewhere in between.

lol you are doing exactly what you accused me of doing- extrapolating one comment out of context to try and prove a point nobody is arguing.

I never argued what a coaches duty is. All I said was it's too early to say that deboer is losing the lockeroom. If we win games, nobody is concerned about the lockeroom culture, and jagr has nothing to complain about. Not sure how anything I said was such a "waste of time."- in fact I'd argue I'm trying to save everyone time by not trying to read into one players comments too much.

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..because we don't need to. There's little need to dissect each and every quote without knowing the score on this one. The title of this thread is; "Fire DeBoer" -and 193 wins in 433 games coached is enough of a reason for me to not consider bringing him back for a 7th NHL season. -Sorry!

This organization was never satisfied with mediocrity (go ask Claude Juilen) ..it's a shame we've gotten used to it somewhere over the last 4 seasons.

to the contrary, I'm not the one dissecting each and every quote. That's exactly what im arguing against. If you want to fire deboer based on team performance I can't argue with that nor have I tried to...I may not agree but I respect the opinion.

But off the ice is an entirely different story- Nobody knows the inner working of the lockeroom but believe you me if there was some sort of bad blood in there Lou would not stand for it, so if something does come from the line changes/jagrs reaction, we'll find out soon enough.

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lol you are doing exactly what you accused me of doing- extrapolating one comment out of context to try and prove a point nobody is arguing.

I never argued what a coaches duty is. All I said was it's too early to say that deboer is losing the lockeroom. If we win games, nobody is concerned about the lockeroom culture, and jagr has nothing to complain about. Not sure how anything I said was such a "waste of time."- in fact I'd argue I'm trying to save everyone time by not trying to read into one players comments too much.

 

Um...no wrong again. I responded to direct quotes of yours. You did not do so in your reply to me. Sorry. You used the non-existent quote the "locker room is lost" and said "results are all that matter." Reread. 

Edited by Neb00rs

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Um...no wrong again. I responded to direct quotes of yours. You did not do so in your reply to me. Sorry. You used the non-existent quote the "locker room is lost" and said "results are all that matter." Reread.

you are being very presumptuous. I specifically did not quote your post because I was not responding directly to you. There were others in this thread bringing up the culture of the lockeroom and I made a general comment about the direction that the thread was going. I suppose I could have multiquoted but that's very difficult to do on my phone so I apologize for your confusion.

Your arguing with me is doing exactly what you are supposedly trying to avoid which is "waste everyone's time." Whether my point is original or not is immaterial to the conversation- I'm simply saying that you and others reading into jägr comments as some sort of proof that the lockeroom has soured on deboer is premature. If we win on Friday with the revised lines jägr has nothing to complain about. You say that everyone knows winning is the most important thing but you seem to want to separate the on ice results from the lockeroom culture, when in fact both are so closely intertwined its impossible to do.

Jägr's quotes can not be taken by themselves as proof of any sort of lockeroom mood, iits simply one player's immediate reaction to a change. I could just as easily argue there are other players who through their silence approve of the change.

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Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time. Him being frustrated with a desicion is normal.

Losing the locker room is getting into a sh!t fit with langenbrunner and wanting to name a captain for the game he sits. Losing the locker room is benching Kovy because no one is playing with any effort.

Debo is too passive to lose the locker room.

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Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time. Him being frustrated with a desicion is normal.

Losing the locker room is getting into a sh!t fit with langenbrunner and wanting to name a captain for the game he sits. Losing the locker room is benching Kovy because no one is playing with any effort.

Debo is too passive to lose the locker room.

this in agree with, if anything I read Jägr's comments a selfishness- he wants his players on his line, even if the coach thinks the best thing for the team is to try zajac with Elias.

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Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time. Him being frustrated with a desicion is normal.

Losing the locker room is getting into a sh!t fit with langenbrunner and wanting to name a captain for the game he sits. Losing the locker room is benching Kovy because no one is playing with any effort.

Debo is too passive to lose the locker room.

 

The funny thing is the things that the majority of the board wanted at some point (me included) is the stuff that probably loses a locker room. Scratch or send down Gionta...that pisses off a lot of people. Scratch your captain and that could be messy.

 

Not saying Gionta deserves to be scratched, but I don't think Josefson getting a game for him would be terrible. My point is that it would probably not sit so well in the room. Salvador is not an upgrade over anyone, but if they bumped him for Larsson...that wouldn't go over well.

 

Anyway, Deboer tries to get the offense going by shaking up the lines...and that pisses people off here? Really?

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We don't know what Lou has been trying to do via moving people if he's been wanting to showcase Salvador, etc. We have no idea. I'd like to see JJ in for Gionta at somepoint, but again, it's just deck chairs.

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Jagr comments are Jagr coments that's all. I would be more concerned if Elias said it.

 

I do understand the move but maybe at the expense of what Zajac and Jagr could produce.

 

All I can tell you is the Devils are in trouble and that's on Lou.

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We don't know what Lou has been trying to do via moving people if he's been wanting to showcase Salvador, etc. We have no idea. I'd like to see JJ in for Gionta at somepoint, but again, it's just deck chairs.

Very true we don't know what Lou's been doing to clear the D logjam, but I think a lot of the frustration around here is how long he has dragged it out. While I think a lot of teams would add Salvador because he's a vet, has playoff experience, etc. despite his recent play, I'd be shocked if Lou moved him.

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Very true we don't know what Lou's been doing to clear the D logjam, but I think a lot of the frustration around here is how long he has dragged it out. While I think a lot of teams would add Salvador because he's a vet, has playoff experience, etc. despite his recent play, I'd be shocked if Lou moved him.

 

Yeah. It's not like he's Jamie Langs

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Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time. Him being frustrated with a desicion is normal.

Losing the locker room is getting into a sh!t fit with langenbrunner and wanting to name a captain for the game he sits. Losing the locker room is benching Kovy because no one is playing with any effort.

Debo is too passive to lose the locker room.

 

Yes, that is "losing the locker room." My point is that these are the signs of beginning to lose the confidence of the group of guys who wear the skates.It is the first signs of losing the room and that can be totally thwarted of course. Summing this up to "Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time," is unwise and unnecessary. Jagr is open with his opinions, but MUCH less of a prima donna than years ago and you shouldn't condemn the guy to that title forever. Secondly, whether he is a 'diva' or not, he is our leading scorer and part of the team and when the head coach doesn't have the confidence of a player within those parameters, it does hint at the BEGINNINGS of trouble.

 

Saying "Debo is too passive to lose the locker room" is also unwise - he has lost locker rooms before, and there are many personalities who rub players the wrong way - but I took this comment of yours as half tongue-in-cheek.

 

 

The funny thing is the things that the majority of the board wanted at some point (me included) is the stuff that probably loses a locker room. Scratch or send down Gionta...that pisses off a lot of people. Scratch your captain and that could be messy.

 

Not saying Gionta deserves to be scratched, but I don't think Josefson getting a game for him would be terrible. My point is that it would probably not sit so well in the room. Salvador is not an upgrade over anyone, but if they bumped him for Larsson...that wouldn't go over well.

 

Anyway, Deboer tries to get the offense going by shaking up the lines...and that pisses people off here? Really?

 

 

The first part you wrote is a great point. As far as the last line goes, it doesn't piss me off at all. But it pisses Jagr (and possibly others) off.

Edited by Neb00rs

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Jagr comments are Jagr coments that's all. I would be more concerned if Elias said it.

 

I do understand the move but maybe at the expense of what Zajac and Jagr could produce.

 

All I can tell you is the Devils are in trouble and that's on Lou.

 

Yet when Elias said he didnt like Lou's approach with UFAs... everyone here discarded it. lol People just want to take what they want and they'll shove aside what they don't want whoever says what, its that simple.

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doing nothing is always an option

 

and this is the side effect of that

 

fragile, unstable psyches and superstitions

 

This is on Lou; yet every time Debo juggles lines, its never what you would want them to be, which is difficult considering how often he does.

 

yet again i think devils are doing well all things considered.

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The funny thing is the things that the majority of the board wanted at some point (me included) is the stuff that probably loses a locker room. Scratch or send down Gionta...that pisses off a lot of people. Scratch your captain and that could be messy.

 

Not saying Gionta deserves to be scratched, but I don't think Josefson getting a game for him would be terrible. My point is that it would probably not sit so well in the room. Salvador is not an upgrade over anyone, but if they bumped him for Larsson...that wouldn't go over well.

 

Anyway, Deboer tries to get the offense going by shaking up the lines...and that pisses people off here? Really?

 

You're absolutely right.

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