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CaptainRafalski

Two Interesting Articles on Deboer

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One exception (might be others) is Stamkos.  His career shooting percentage is something like 17 percent, and it got over 20 percent in one season. 

 

Just as an aside, I think more receptive to the idea of stressing SOG if it weren't for those yahoos in the crowd who indiscriminately yell "shoot!". 

when ryder got that breakaway in OT against the preds , I was screaming "shoot it" at the TV. Id much prefer he snipe then juke.    I find myself screaming it at jagr once or twice a game

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This!

NJ played as well as you can vs Colorado.

You win 8/10 games like that...But you lose 2/10.

Hockey has a large luck component and that's the way it goes.

That's too simplistic an approach. If you give me 10 games against the Avs I expect us to lose eight of them and not because of luck.

Puck luck is the biggest farce.

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Found these over at HF Boards:

DeBoer, The Tyrant And Locker Room Terror Nobody Sees

Florida Panthers Fire Head Coach Peter DeBoer After 2010-2011 Season

The first talks about how he treats young players. One of my biggest complaints is how he continues to bury the young guys in favor of the old vets.

The second talks about his firing from the Panthers. Ironically they had enough with his constant line juggling and inability to hold leads.

Talk about dead on articles, I stayed quiet trying to give this coach a chance but it's time to cut ties.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

Edited by Devlin

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And how many times have the opposition pulled the goalie? You can't just throw out "given up goals" without context. The success ratio is something like 30% when pulling the goalie. 

 

Is that the success ratio for this season?

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The problem is a lot of these players are medicore to down right bad. Its not all Petes fault even though I'm rather sick of him myself.

Id love to see so many of these guys never in a Devils jersey again.

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Bleacherrepport must be the least credible sports writing I've ever read. Most of the articles on there are strictly opinion pieces with no foundation. I'm not commenting on this article specifically, because I didn't read it. Nothing Bleacherreport publishes should ever be taken seriously.

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The last two nights sucked, but at the same time, it's really hard to put them entirely on PDB:

 

Against the Preds, Jagr does exactly what you'd want him to, Preds get an incredibly fortunate bounce.

Against the Avs...three friggin' posts.  Team on ice unfortunately gets caught and gassed at the worst possible time.    

 

I'm not sure what a new coach can do with what he has to work with.  It feels like it will be change for change's sake.  Does the next coach get the guys who don't score for 10 games or more at a time to start scoring more consistently?       

 

I agree. Pete has them playing hard almost every game. As a few fans here have been saying, they just don't have the scorers.

 

From TG's blog:

 

“It’s frustrating, Devils coach Pete DeBoer said. “It seems that’s kind of what we’re dealing with right now. It hasn’t been an issues all year and then all the sudden the last three games we’ve had an issue in the last minute. Tonight for me the story is we have to find a way to get a second and third goal. We got one goal out of our fourth line, which is a bonus goal, and enough chances to get five.

 

“If you let anybody hang around in this league long enough bad things happen and that’s the story lately.”

 

DeBoer is correct in that blowing leads late is only a recent trend. The Devils had given up the tying goal with the opponent’s goalie pulled only twice all season before last Thursday in Dallas – on Dec. 4 vs. Montreal (4-3 shootout loss) and Dec. 7 vs. the Rangers (4-3 overtime win)

 

“I think if we could find a way to generate another goal a night we’d be a very good team,” he said. “We’re 60 games in and we have not found that yet. That’s the difference. It’s a race to three goals in this league to win. That’s the formula for almost everybody and we don’t get there enough. And it’s not a lack of effort, it’s not lack of generating chances. We generated enough to score five goals. We need to finish those. Our guys who are supposed to score have to score.

 

“This time of year you can’t have multiple guys with double digit games without goals.”

 

DeBoer was clearly referring to Michael Ryder, who has no goals in 11 games now. I guess he also could have been referring to Steve Bernier, who hasn’t scored in 28 games, or Andrei Loktionov, who has no goals in his last 14 contests. No other Devils forwards who played tonight has gone more than six games without a goal.

 

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/fireice/comments/devils_struggle_to_score_blow_late_lead_again_in_2-1_ot_loss_to_avs_lamoriello_eying_cammalleri/

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It really sucks losing Larry Robinson. I feel he was a player's coach, which is ideal for a team with a ton of promising defense prospects. You want young players to learn from their mistakes, but to see that young players in the past under Deboer played scared, is awful. You want an assistant like Larry, who is insightful and helps a young guy shake off a mistake, and not shake in fear of being benched or sent down.

I remember many times when Larry was here and they'd cut to the bench, you would see Larry lean over a player's shoulder and explain things to them. You need that kind of coach on your staff. I do not see anybody currently doing that as often as Larry did or even Oatesy. It is good to have a coach that is willing to take a player under his wing and show him the ropes, not punish and regress them. Larry seemed to have a special bond with certain players and he seems like a genuine guy.

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It really sucks losing Larry Robinson. I feel he was a player's coach, which is ideal for a team with a ton of promising defense prospects. You want young players to learn from their mistakes, but to see that young players in the past under Deboer played scared, is awful. You want an assistant like Larry, who is insightful and helps a young guy shake off a mistake, and not shake in fear of being benched or sent down.

Spot on...I remember when they benched Larsson a long time back and when asked what the coaches told him to improve on he said something along lines of "I'm not sure, they never told me what to improve on".

Really?? This is how our coaching staff teaches our young players. I kept that interview in the back of my mind wondering if something else was going to happen.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

Edited by Devlin

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I agree. Pete has them playing hard almost every game. As a few fans here have been saying, they just don't have the scorers.

 

Our guys who are supposed to score have to score.

 

“This time of year you can’t have multiple guys with double digit games without goals.”

 

DeBoer was clearly referring to Michael Ryder, who has no goals in 11 games now. I guess he also could have been referring to Steve Bernier, who hasn’t scored in 28 games, or Andrei Loktionov, who has no goals in his last 14 contests. No other Devils forwards who played tonight has gone more than six games without a goal.

 

http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/fireice/comments/devils_struggle_to_score_blow_late_lead_again_in_2-1_ot_loss_to_avs_lamoriello_eying_cammalleri/

 

I think the guys who PDB is probably most frustrated with are Brunner and Ryder.  Both are prone to LONG periods of scoring invisibility, and they don't do enough otherwise to disappear for as long as they do.  Can't expect Bernier to score much, really.   

 

re:  Loktionov, NJ is just finding out what LA already knew...that he's not some gem who didn't get a fair chance.  He's simply very meh.  Maybe he has a decent career in KHL.

 

Speaking of the KHL, Kovalchuk has been pretty good, but far from great, really:  44 GP, 16 G, 24 A, 40 Pts, +1, 9.6 shooting%.  Fine if he missed his homeland and decided that he didn't want to live in the US anymore, but I also think he knew he soon wasn't going to be anywhere near the player he had been earlier, and knew he'd be better off playing against lesser competition.  I only bring this up because I don't think Kovy as he is now would've have been as much of a help to this year's team as some might think (and I think Kovy knows it too). 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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I think the guys who PDB is probably most frustrated with are Brunner and Ryder.  Both are prone to LONG periods of scoring invisibility, and they don't do enough otherwise to disappear for as long as they do.  Can't expect Bernier to score much, really.   

 

re:  Loktionov, NJ is just finding out what LA already knew...that he's not some gem who didn't get a fair chance.  He's simply very meh.  Maybe he has a decent career in KHL.

 

Speaking of the KHL, Kovalchuk has been pretty good, but far from great, really:  44 GP, 16 G, 24 A, 40 Pts, +1, 9.6 shooting%.  Fine if he missed his homeland and decided that he didn't want to live in the US anymore, but I also think he knew he soon wasn't going to be anywhere near the player he had been earlier, and knew he'd be better off playing against lesser competition.  I only bring this up because I don't think Kovy as he is now would've have been as much of a help to this year's team as some might think (and I think Kovy knows it too). 

 

And Russia doesn't exactly have a bunch of Charas and McDonaghs running around back there, just look at who's on their olympic team on defense. Those stats are barely good enough for the NHL, much less the cruddy KHL. Kinda happy he's gone at this point

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And Russia doesn't exactly have a bunch of Charas and McDonaghs running around back there, just look at who's on their olympic team on defense. Those stats are barely good enough for the NHL, much less the cruddy KHL. Kinda happy he's gone at this point

40 points in 44 games is barely good enough for the NHL?

Oh.

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Sadly, Kovy is exactly what this team is missing right now. That long contract, no. But definitely his ability to score. Then again, if we still have Kovy we probably don't have Jagr and/or Zidlicky

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Sadly, Kovy is exactly what this team is missing right now. That long contract, no. But definitely his ability to score. Then again, if we still have Kovy we probably don't have Jagr and/or Zidlicky

 

The reason I posted what I did is to show that if Kovy WAS here, he'd probably be part of the problem and not really much of a solution.  He's not Kovy anymore, and like I said, I think even Kovy knew it, and when the opportunity presented itself to go somewhere else where he could still make a lot of coin, he jumped at it.  He wasn't looking forward to scoring less than 30 goals per season and hearing about how bad his contract was here. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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The reason I posted what I did is to show that if Kovy WAS here, he'd probably be part of the problem and not really much of a solution. He's not Kovy anymore, and like I said, I think even Kovy knew it, and when the opportunity presented itself to go somewhere else where he could still make a lot of coin, he jumped at it. He wasn't looking forward to scoring less than 30 goals per season and hearing about how bad his contract was here.

I hear you, I tend to think it was more of a perfect storm of things, including plenty of stuff I'm sure we don't even know about. The lockout, the injury, missing the playoffs, and an unimaginable contract. Kovy was a merc, there's no two ways around it but he was electrifying and this team misses his finishing ability in the short term for sure

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Sadly, Kovy is exactly what this team is missing right now. That long contract, no. But definitely his ability to score. Then again, if we still have Kovy we probably don't have Jagr and/or Zidlicky

 

It's really not.  The power play has been fine (lucky, but fine) and he wasn't a good 5v5 scorer in any year here, really.

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It's really not. The power play has been fine (lucky, but fine) and he wasn't a good 5v5 scorer in any year here, really.

You can't tell me with a straight face that a team with immense scoring trouble doesn't miss a 30-40 goal scorer

Not to mention becoming a plus player on the penalty kill, maybe the biggest threat on the pk out there in the history of the league that last year

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You can't tell me with a straight face that a team with immense scoring trouble doesn't miss a 30-40 goal scorer

Not to mention becoming a plus player on the penalty kill, maybe the biggest threat on the pk out there in the history of the league that last year

 

I get what Tri is getting at, and he is probably right for the price the Devils were paying Kovy. Also with Kovy, the Devils don't have Jagr, so is there improvement?

 

Kovy with Jagr could make a good PP even better, but I don't think Kovy is helping this team much more than Jagr is this season..if at all.

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Sadly, Kovy is exactly what this team is missing right now. That long contract, no. But definitely his ability to score. Then again, if we still have Kovy we probably don't have Jagr and/or Zidlicky

 

Exactly! And right now the teams around us have players that are lighting it up at the level that Kovalchuk used to be able to when he was hot. Rangers have 2-3 hot players in Nash and Richards playing elite level hockey and look at the run they're on. They can and will beat anybody and everybody on any given night. I think it's a temporary thing that'll dwindle after the Olympics, but still. We're not getting ANYthing, temporary or long-term, and that's on Lou and the roster he's put together.

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I get what Tri is getting at, and he is probably right for the price the Devils were paying Kovy. Also with Kovy, the Devils don't have Jagr, so is there improvement?

 

Kovy with Jagr could make a good PP even better, but I don't think Kovy is helping this team much more than Jagr is this season..if at all.

 

I'd say with Kovy we definitely don't have the Clowe deal. I don't think the Clarkson departure gets "solved" by getting Clowe. It's possible Lou intended all along to go out and get Ryder and/or Jagr to two pretty good deal$$$ for New Jersey that allow Kovalchuk to shift back to LW. Maybe getting 1-2 RW to allow Kovy to shift LW was the plan all along. We have a gaping hole in LW which shows Lou never figured out what to do over there.

Edited by DJ Eco

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You can't tell me with a straight face that a team with immense scoring trouble doesn't miss a 30-40 goal scorer

Not to mention becoming a plus player on the penalty kill, maybe the biggest threat on the pk out there in the history of the league that last year

 

There's a salary cap.  Sure, if budget was absolutely no consideration, yeah I'd rather have Kovalchuk than Brunner.  But it is, and I've laid out the argument many times, but that Kovalchuk's 30+ goals were basically as not valuable as 30 goals can be.  I do agree that 4v5 is where they miss Kovalchuk the most.

 

And at $11M in salary and the assumption that our new owners are cognizant of the budget, take any 3 players NJ signed this off-season and boot them off the team.  And in that case, there's no way Kovalchuk is worth it.

Edited by Triumph

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There's a salary cap. Sure, if budget was absolutely no consideration, yeah I'd rather have Kovalchuk than Brunner. But it is, and I've laid out the argument many times, but that Kovalchuk's 30+ goals were basically as not valuable as 30 goals can be. I do agree that 4v5 is where they miss Kovalchuk the most.

And at $11M in salary and the assumption that our new owners are cognizant of the budget, take any 3 players NJ signed this off-season and boot them off the team. And in that case, there's no way Kovalchuk is worth it.

The second thing I said was "not that contract, though". I'm talking from a pure hockey standpoint as far as what they are missing on ice. Speed and scoring. I don't disagree with anything you just said

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There's a salary cap.  Sure, if budget was absolutely no consideration, yeah I'd rather have Kovalchuk than Brunner.  But it is, and I've laid out the argument many times, but that Kovalchuk's 30+ goals were basically as not valuable as 30 goals can be.  I do agree that 4v5 is where they miss Kovalchuk the most.

 

And at $11M in salary and the assumption that our new owners are cognizant of the budget, take any 3 players NJ signed this off-season and boot them off the team.  And in that case, there's no way Kovalchuk is worth it.

4v5 they are fine. They boast the second best PK and have scored their fair share of shorthanded goals. I reckon the PP has improved too, but without looking at shot rates, it'd be impossible to know

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You can't tell me with a straight face that a team with immense scoring trouble doesn't miss a 30-40 goal scorer

Not to mention becoming a plus player on the penalty kill, maybe the biggest threat on the pk out there in the history of the league that last year

 

PK's been among the best in the league, at least from a pure kill standpoint.

 

Whether or not Kovy would've been a 30-40 goal scorer now and going forward is definitely questionable.  He scored 11 goals in 37 GP last season.  He's not lighting it up in the KHL this season.  His shooting %s in the NHL last season and the KHL this season are not great.  I agree, a lot of things led to his leaving, and we'll never know what they all were, but he comes off like he's a pretty sensitive guy, and one who knew it was going to get ugly around here when he could no longer live up to that deal.  One could argue that he could never truly live up to it, but less-than-30 goals Kovy would've been hard for a lot of Devils fans to take, especially with his shortcomings elsewhere. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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PK's been among the best in the league, at least from a pure kill standpoint.

Whether or not Kovy would've been a 30-40 goal scorer now and going forward is definitely questionable. He scored 11 goals in 37 GP last season. He's not lighting it up in the KHL this season. His shooting %s in the NHL last season and the KHL this season are not great. I agree, a lot of things led to his leaving, and we'll never know what they all were, but he comes off like he's a pretty sensitive guy, and one who knew it was going to get ugly around here when he could no longer live up to that deal. One argue that he could never truly live up to it, but less-than-30 goals Kovy would've been hard for a lot of Devils fans to take, especially with his shortcomings elsewhere.

Yeah it is a relief to get out of that contract but I do miss the guy carrying the puck in the zone with speed and slamming on the breaks. This team is a lot easier to account for. Take the red, dump it in. From a coaching stand point it keeps teams off balance and mixes it up a little

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