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Colorado Rockies 1976

The Thread Formerly Known as The Reasons for Optimism Thread

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This team really does piss me off, I appreciate that they work their butts off most nights but they are just not good. Marty's ego needs to leave this franchise now. Our best players are Jagr Elias Zidlicky and they are goddamn dinosaurs. I love the guy but Zubrus is completely shot, he is still a dependable guy but should only be in the bottom 9. You have embarrassments like Ryder and Brunner who are hard to watch, unskilled grinders such as Gionta and Bernier who need to go. Our future offensively is based on three very mediocre forwards in Henrique Clowe and Zajac. You have a useless old defenseman as a captain with players like Larsson being left in Albany for him. Our defensive prospects are good but our offense is depending on the likes of Boucher and Matteau. All the while we have Cory Scheinder probably thinking 'get me the hell out of here'. This is not a good situation at all, we need him.This team needs a shake up and that starts with #30 going away, get away from the locker room, get away from the franchise and shut your mouth. Thanks for everything but go away until we hang up your number. Scott Stevens and Deboer needs to go. I am done with them. I do like the idea of giving the job to Barr since everything he works on has been solid. Lou Lams, wake up and smell the coffee. You have been terrible. You better somehow get rid of the likes of Salvador Gionta and Ryder. I don't care how but you NEED to infuse this team with young offensive talent. Changes have to be made, give the fans something to be encouraged about because this current squad is just a bunch of bandages. 

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Every GM signs a couple of terrible FA contracts.

 

Can you list me 5 F/A's that Lou signed that would be considered "OK" at least?  I'm not talking our own players - perhaps I've had a long day at work and my brain is fried, but I'm seriously having trouble coming up with 5 good contracts that Lou has signed within the past..let's say, 5 years?  Jagr, sure.  Ryder looked good at the time, but he's turned out to be awful.  Same applies to Brunner.

 

Lou has shown an inability to build through Free Agency.  And he's certainly not doing it through the draft at this point..

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This team really does piss me off, I appreciate that they work their butts off most nights but they are just not good. Marty's ego needs to leave this franchise now. Our best players are Jagr Elias Zidlicky and they are goddamn dinosaurs. I love the guy but Zubrus is completely shot, he is still a dependable guy but should only be in the bottom 9. You have embarrassments like Ryder and Brunner who are hard to watch, unskilled grinders such as Gionta and Bernier who need to go. Our future offensively is based on three very mediocre forwards in Henrique Clowe and Zajac. You have a useless old defenseman as a captain with players like Larsson being left in Albany for him. Our defensive prospects are good but our offense is depending on the likes of Boucher and Matteau. All the while we have Cory Scheinder probably thinking 'get me the hell out of here'. This is not a good situation at all, we need him.This team needs a shake up and that starts with #30 going away, get away from the locker room, get away from the franchise and shut your mouth. Thanks for everything but go away until we hang up your number. Scott Stevens and Deboer needs to go. I am done with them. I do like the idea of giving the job to Barr since everything he works on has been solid. Lou Lams, wake up and smell the coffee. You have been terrible. You better somehow get rid of the likes of Salvador Gionta and Ryder. I don't care how but you NEED to infuse this team with young offensive talent. Changes have to be made, give the fans something to be encouraged about because this current squad is just a bunch of bandages.

very well said for the most part.. although i wouldnt mind brodeur again next season as a back up.. i think stevens has done a poor job as a defensive coach since the first day he got the job.. some people are great players but that doesnt mean they translate to good coaches and i think hes a good example of that

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I very much so respect what he's done for this organization.

 

To keep it simple, let's say I'm especially wary of keeping people around because of their legacies after watching this Marty fiasco unfold.

 

Bingo.  I don't consider Lou a good F/A GM, and drafting has been surprisingly awful for the past..what..decade?

 

If you take a close look, most of the teams that have consistently picked in the bottom half of the draft have not done particularly well in that department.  You always here how great the Red Wings are, but outside of Nyquist, Franzen, and maybe Brendan Smith, they haven't been setting the world on fire since they lucked out with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

 

Lou has not made a completely off the radar pick since Adrian Foster.   

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Lou has shown an inability to build through Free Agency.  And he's certainly not doing it through the draft at this point..

 Problem is you CANNOT build through FA, you can supplement a good team, maybe find pieces to put you over the top, but you cannot build a winner through FA!. And w/ no farm system thats what LL is stuck trying to do.

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Can you list me 5 F/A's that Lou signed that would be considered "OK" at least?  I'm not talking our own players - perhaps I've had a long day at work and my brain is fried, but I'm seriously having trouble coming up with 5 good contracts that Lou has signed within the past..let's say, 5 years?  Jagr, sure.  Ryder looked good at the time, but he's turned out to be awful.  Same applies to Brunner.

 

Lou has shown an inability to build through Free Agency.  And he's certainly not doing it through the draft at this point..

 

Give me a list of GMs that signed five free agents that were considered at least OK, not including re-signed players.  Then try to find me a team that has built through free agency?

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Now that Stevens is here it's going to be tough to get rid of him. I don't think he will storm off in a huff like Messier did...but it's still tough to "reassign" (a gentle firing but non firing) of the guy from legit NHL coach to special assignments coach.

 

Larry's contract runs out with the Sharks after this season. Shell out the money and get him back here to coach the D

 

Promote Dave Barr to head coach. 

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If you take a close look, most of the teams that have consistently picked in the bottom half of the draft have not done particularly well in that department.  You always here how great the Red Wings are, but outside of Nyquist, Franzen, and maybe Brendan Smith, they haven't been setting the world on fire since they lucked out with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

 

Lou has not made a completely off the radar pick since Adrian Foster.   

 

Speaking of Foster, Lou completely screwed the pooch during that 2001 draft. 3 second round picks and not a quality contributor among them. Victor Uchevatov? Guy was overgrown and couldn't skate work a lick. Slow lumbering defenseman in round 2? 

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Lou has not made a completely off the radar pick since Adrian Foster.   

 

Still have my hopes up on him.

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Now that Stevens is here it's going to be tough to get rid of him. I don't think he will storm off in a huff like Messier did...but it's still tough to "reassign" (a gentle firing but non firing) of the guy from legit NHL coach to special assignments coach.

 

Larry's contract runs out with the Sharks after this season. Shell out the money and get him back here to coach the D

 

Promote Dave Barr to head coach. 

 

Not happening, didn't he move out there to be closer to family?

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Speaking of Foster, Lou completely screwed the pooch during that 2001 draft. 3 second round picks and not a quality contributor among them. Victor Uchevatov? Guy was overgrown and couldn't skate work a lick. Slow lumbering defenseman in round 2? 

 

It has proven to be real slim pickings after the first half of the first round that year.  Yeah, Patrick Sharp was drafted in the third round, but you can't go too nuts over misses like that.  If it were so obvious that he would be that good, he wouldn't have been drafted in the third round.  Or Philly wouldn't have traded him in the first place.

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It has proven to be real slim pickings after the first half of the first round that year.  Yeah, Patrick Sharp was drafted in the third round, but you can't go too nuts over misses like that.  If it were so obvious that he would be that good, he wouldn't have been drafted in the third round.  Or Philly wouldn't have traded him in the first place.

 

but at that time Lou had a reputation for finding diamonds in the rough while other teams ended up with the Igor Pohanka's of the world. Seems like Lou should've pulled a Tyutin or Cammaleri out of that round.

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Speaking of Foster, Lou completely screwed the pooch during that 2001 draft. 3 second round picks and not a quality contributor among them. Victor Uchevatov? Guy was overgrown and couldn't skate work a lick. Slow lumbering defenseman in round 2? 

 

36 guys from the 2nd round on played 200 games or more in the nhl. not gonna kill him on that draft

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but at that time Lou had a reputation for finding diamonds in the rough while other teams ended up with the Igor Pohanka's of the world. Seems like Lou should've pulled a Tyutin or Cammaleri out of that round.

 

Those guys certainly turned their teams into world beaters.  sh!t happens sometimes.

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Every GM signs a couple of terrible FA contracts.

 

 

Yes but most also sign some good ones too.  I realize we're never going to be a huge player in the UFA frenzy but seriously what's his best free agent signing since the year long lockout, Zubrus?   Even that was thought to be an overpayment originally.  The scary thing is I would actually consider the Ryder and Brunner signing two of his better ones given limited term and risk.   I guess Jagr would be his best and that's noting more than a temporary patch.  

 

Also, has any GM ever let as much talent walk out the door with no compensation as Lou has since the year long lockout?  Niedermayer, Rafalski, Gomez, Martin, Parise, Clarkson etc.  Not that I think all of them have been signed or even close to it but there is a disparity between the talent leaving and the talent coming in that needs to be made up somewhere.   

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Yes but most also sign some good ones too.  

 

I can promise you most GMs do not sign some good ones too, because they don't last that long. 

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Lou has not made a completely off the radar pick since Adrian Foster.   

 

 

Trading down for Corrente when Berglund was available at pick 25?   For all the Swede's we've drafted in the last 10 years, I can't believe we passed on him given that we needed another C.  I was so mad the night of the draft, especially when Versus then cut off the broadcast before we even made that 30th pick.  

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but at that time Lou had a reputation for finding diamonds in the rough while other teams ended up with the Igor Pohanka's of the world. Seems like Lou should've pulled a Tyutin or Cammaleri out of that round.

 

Nothing short of psychic powers gives anyone the ability to "should" get a diamond in the rough. A diamond in the rough is a risk that pays off. A risk that doesn't is a bust.

 

Half of the reason Lou "sucks" or "used to be better" is because people have insane expectations.

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Yes but most also sign some good ones too.  I realize we're never going to be a huge player in the UFA frenzy but seriously what's his best free agent signing since the year long lockout, Zubrus?   Even that was thought to be an overpayment originally.  The scary thing is I would actually consider the Ryder and Brunner signing two of his better ones given limited term and risk.   I guess Jagr would be his best and that's noting more than a temporary patch.  

 

Also, has any GM ever let as much talent walk out the door with no compensation as Lou has since the year long lockout?  Niedermayer, Rafalski, Gomez, Martin, Parise, Clarkson etc.  Not that I think all of them have been signed or even close to it but there is a disparity between the talent leaving and the talent coming in that needs to be made up somewhere.   

 

That ignores things like trading for the pick to get Niedermayer, trading up to get Parise, selecting Gomez at the end of the first round, and signing Rafalski and Clarkson as undrafted free agents.

 

He offered Niedermayer max contract, and most of those other players haven't lived up to their big contracts.

 

Most good teams aren't built through free agency, they are supplemented by it. Any team that was built through the draft had years of top 10 picks.

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Yes but most also sign some good ones too.  I realize we're never going to be a huge player in the UFA frenzy but seriously what's his best free agent signing since the year long lockout, Zubrus?   Even that was thought to be an overpayment originally.  The scary thing is I would actually consider the Ryder and Brunner signing two of his better ones given limited term and risk.   I guess Jagr would be his best and that's noting more than a temporary patch.  

 

Also, has any GM ever let as much talent walk out the door with no compensation as Lou has since the year long lockout?  Niedermayer, Rafalski, Gomez, Martin, Parise, Clarkson etc.  Not that I think all of them have been signed or even close to it but there is a disparity between the talent leaving and the talent coming in that needs to be made up somewhere.   

 

Jagr was a really good signing.  Rolston was really the only awful signing, i.e., one that actually hamstrung the team.

 

He did not willingly part with Niedermeyer or Parise.  You might fault him for not trading Parise, but that's a different issue.  Rafalski ended up getting $6 million a year when the cap was much lower than it is today.  It would basically be the equivalent of giving him $8 million AAV with today's cap.  You can't go nuts over that.  Martin has been up and down with Pittsburgh.  Just ask a Leafs fan how happy they are having Clarkson for the next five years.  And the only reason why a Rangers fan will tell you the Gomez signing worked out well was because they happened to find Canadians management at time when they apparently were all on acid. 

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That ignores things like trading for the pick to get Niedermayer, trading up to get Parise, selecting Gomez at the end of the first round, and signing Rafalski and Clarkson as undrafted free agents.

 

He offered Niedermayer max contract, and most of those other players haven't lived up to their big contracts.

 

Most good teams aren't built through free agency, they are supplemented by it. Any team that was built through the draft had years of top 10 picks.

 

I'm not ignoring that at all.  He deserves to go to the hall of fame for his work as a GM but his legacy will be always be built on everything he did up to 2004.  Since the lockout in 2005, he has been a below average GM in my opinion sliding by on his legacy for the last few seasons.  

 

I absolutely agree that you can't build through free agency and am not attempting to argue that we should.  Part of being a good GM is the ability to re-sign your own guys. Parise may have been out of his hands because of ownership but I absolutely believe part of the reason Niedermayer left was because of the contentious contract negotiations on his previous two RFA contracts.  We can argue the merits of each guy that left and in most cases it made no sense to sign the player for the contract they got but there has to be a plan in place to replace them.     if Conte were still drafting gems in the 2nd and 3rd rounds on a yearly basis like it were the 90's it wouldn't be an issue.  When we're trying to replace Parise with Bobby Butler and every forward we picked in the 1st round since Zajac is essentially a bust, there becomes an issue.  

 

The point is, for a long time there has been more talent going out the door than coming in by a fairly large margin.   You can argue the UFA contracts on guys who left were too high, the draft is a crapshoot with low picks or whatever.   All I know is there are a lot of teams that have managed their assets much much better for the last decade and missing the playoffs 3 out of 4 years pretty much backs that up. 

 

Regarding the top 10 picks, we had one 3 years ago that is banished to Albany and we pissed away one this year.  Again, poor management.  There been opportunities to develop the next elite players.   Larsson may still become one but his development so far has been a head scratcher.   

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I'm not ignoring that at all. He deserves to go to the hall of fame for his work as a GM but his legacy will be always be built on everything he did up to 2004. Since the lockout in 2005, he has been a below average GM in my opinion sliding by on his legacy for the last few seasons.

I absolutely agree that you can't build through free agency and am not attempting to argue that we should. Part of being a good GM is the ability to re-sign your own guys. Parise may have been out of his hands because of ownership but I absolutely believe part of the reason Niedermayer left was because of the contentious contract negotiations on his previous two RFA contracts. We can argue the merits of each guy that left and in most cases it made no sense to sign the player for the contract they got but there has to be a plan in place to replace them. if Conte were still drafting gems in the 2nd and 3rd rounds on a yearly basis like it were the 90's it wouldn't be an issue. When we're trying to replace Parise with Bobby Butler and every forward we picked in the 1st round since Zajac is essentially a bust, there becomes an issue.

The point is, for a long time there has been more talent going out the door than coming in by a fairly large margin. You can argue the UFA contracts on guys who left were too high, the draft is a crapshoot with low picks or whatever. All I know is there are a lot of teams that have managed their assets much much better for the last decade and missing the playoffs 3 out of 4 years pretty much backs that up.

Regarding the top 10 picks, we had one 3 years ago that is banished to Albany and we pissed away one this year. Again, poor management. There been opportunities to develop the next elite players. Larsson may still become one but his development so far has been a head scratcher.

Who are these teams that managed their assets better since 2005 and how did they get to being among the better teams in the league? Stl, Anaheim, Detroit, SJ and Boston have all been very well run in recent years. Otherwise you have teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, and LA that have cores of top ten draft picks.

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I've repeated myself on this over and over but you look at the teams that were good in the 90s - Dallas, St. Louis, Detroit, Colorado, New Jersey, Philadelphia.  Does that sound like a good top 6?  The teams that both drafted better and are now in a better position than NJ include Detroit and Philadelphia.  Philadelphia has made so many bad personnel moves that it obscures their truly remarkable drafting - they've pulled a lot of good forwards out of picking low in the draft - Giroux, Carter, Richards, Gagne - hell, even Justin Williams who they threw away for a vet D.  Still, I don't think Philadelphia is very good either now or in the future because they cannot seem to A: stop making dumb trades and B: signing terrible defensemen.  Detroit still has some solid young players coming, but their ability to extract superstars from the lower rounds seems to have suddenly disappeared.

 

Dallas, Colorado, St. Louis all went through full rebuilds that took years because their successes were built in part on neglecting the future.  St. Louis missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, Colorado's still not out of the woods yet, etc., Dallas made some very shrewd moves this year but I'm not sold on them long term, etc.

 

NJ's missed the playoffs 3 of 4 years because of their goaltending, period, full stop.  Fix that, which they should've this year but didn't, and they're a lot better team, so it'll be interesting to see what this team is without its past weighing it down.

Edited by Triumph

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lol okay they missed the playoffs the last two years solely because of goaltending when they had the 29th ranked offense last year and are like 24th/25th this year.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Getting to 91 points seems impossible.  But when you look at the schedule remaining, it's not outlandish.  This is by far the easiest 13 game stretch we've had all year coming up.  Don't give up just yet.  

 

BTW, If you wanna bring up the loss to Florida, they just beat the Sharks last night as well.

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