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Daniel

We Got Rutuu

342 posts in this topic

 

It was posted already right ? (sorry if it's the case)

So many history with Devils or Devils player (the sick sick goal versus Canada/Marty) 

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Loktianov was given the minutes in the situations he was suited for, and still didn’t produce that much

 

 

I'd disagree with that. He got less PP time (9% instead of 26%) and more SH time this year. Last year he played with Kovalchuk, this year primarily with Ryder. Yeah, he got (a lot) more o-zone starts but given how poor this team is at scoring 5v5, it's tough to hold his production against him (relative to the rest of the team). Hell, I think your statement works for 10 or 11 out of NJ's forwards. 

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well he scored a SO goal in that video. Thats already better than 100% of our roster now since Boucher is not here anymore lol

Edited by SterioDesign

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I'd disagree with that. He got less PP time (9% instead of 26%) and more SH time this year. Last year he played with Kovalchuk, this year primarily with Ryder. Yeah, he got (a lot) more o-zone starts but given how poor this team is at scoring 5v5, it's tough to hold his production against him (relative to the rest of the team). Hell, I think your statement works for 10 or 11 out of NJ's forwards. 

 

His level of production was more an afterthought when looking at the statistics. Clearly a number of players are underperforming compared to what was expected.

 

Feisty was pointing out that he was getting time with skilled players in the time that he was on ice, and Mike stated that he needed more minutes with skilled players to be successful.

 

I was just pointing out that our top 6 players tend to get minutes in situations that Lokti was not suited for, and just giving him more minutes with those players wouldn’t have necessarily lead to more success or better production. Mike has posed similar arguments for players like Bernier. Basically that the whole 2nd line , 3rd line thing doesn't really apply that much in reality.  

Last year is irrelevant because he has still been given oppertunities this year with the best of what we have. Mike was suggesting he had been playing with Gionta and Carter ina purley defensive setting for only 12 minutes a game, where the staticstics would indicate otherwise. 

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If anyone still wants to point the blame on Deboer ans avoid larger problems...just look at this trade. With so many players available cheap like Legwand, Hemsky, Vanek, etc...Lou thinks the player this team needs to get them over the hump is Rutuu. A guy with two more years on his deal at over $4 million and 5 goals in 57 games at the time of the deal.

 

All that plus his reasons for making the deal (watching 60 games of this team and thinking this is what they were missing), to bringing up the player he was in a 2009 playoff series makes this one of the worst deals imaginable. Now he is just more of the same on a team full of Ruutu like players.

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If anyone still wants to point the blame on Deboer ans avoid larger problems...just look at this trade. With so many players available cheap like Legwand, Hemsky, Vanek, etc...Lou thinks the player this team needs to get them over the hump is Rutuu. A guy with two more years on his deal at over $4 million and 5 goals in 57 games at the time of the deal.

 

All that plus his reasons for making the deal (watching 60 games of this team and thinking this is what they were missing), to bringing up the player he was in a 2009 playoff series makes this one of the worst deals imaginable. Now he is just more of the same on a team full of Ruutu like players.

 

I hate comments like these. Do you seriously think that Lou doesn't know that the team needs more scoring? Jesus, he's a great GM, and you're just some fan. Obviously he wanted to acquire scoring but wasn't able to given the assets that the team has and what was available. It's so easy to say "Get Vanek" or "Get Legwand" (neither of these players are even that good, but that's besides the point). You are not a GM. You don't know what the relationship is like between Lou and the GMs of those teams. You don't know if Lou made offers, or if Lou even would have been able to get any of those players for the price they went for (just because that's what they were traded for, doesn't mean that ALL teams could have made a comparable trade).

 

Ruutu hasn't even been bad since he got here. He's fine. He just can't single-handedly correct the lack of offensive depth that there is throughout the entire organization. It's going to take years of good drafting and prospect development to do that. No amount of trade deadline moves or off-season free agent signings was going to fix the problems we have.

 

And since you seem to think otherwise, Vanek or Legwand or any of the guys traded at the deadline are NOT turning this team into a playoff team right now, so any draft picks we would have had to give up for them would have been a waste anyway.

Edited by iamtheprodigy

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If anyone still wants to point the blame on Deboer ans avoid larger problems...just look at this trade. With so many players available cheap like Legwand, Hemsky, Vanek, etc...Lou thinks the player this team needs to get them over the hump is Rutuu. A guy with two more years on his deal at over $4 million and 5 goals in 57 games at the time of the deal.

 

All that plus his reasons for making the deal (watching 60 games of this team and thinking this is what they were missing), to bringing up the player he was in a 2009 playoff series makes this one of the worst deals imaginable. Now he is just more of the same on a team full of Ruutu like players.

 

Legwand was not 'available cheap'.  Calle Jarnkrok would be NJ's 2nd best forward prospect if he were in their system.  Hemsky was available cheap - he is not a scorer and not really what the Devils need.  Vanek was available cheap but only because of how things shook out on deadline day.

 

I agree that Ruutu is not the answer but if it means Zubrus being bounced this off-season it's a fine trade.

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Legwand was not 'available cheap'. Calle Jarnkrok would be NJ's 2nd best forward prospect if he were in their system. Hemsky was available cheap - he is not a scorer and not really what the Devils need. Vanek was available cheap but only because of how things shook out on deadline day.

I agree that Ruutu is not the answer but if it means Zubrus being bounced this off-season it's a fine trade.

You can't really call Vanek cheap. There's the second and also Colberg, who some people really like, Pronman being one of them. In the end Ruutu cost us virtually nothing, so whatevs.

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I hate comments like these. Do you seriously think that Lou doesn't know that the team needs more scoring? Jesus, he's a great GM, and you're just some fan. Obviously he wanted to acquire scoring but wasn't able to given the assets that the team has and what was available. It's so easy to say "Get Vanek" or "Get Legwand" (neither of these players are even that good, but that's besides the point). You are not a GM. You don't know what the relationship is like between Lou and the GMs of those teams. You don't know if Lou made offers, or if Lou even would have been able to get any of those players for the price they went for (just because that's what they were traded for, doesn't mean that ALL teams could have made a comparable trade).

 

Ruutu hasn't even been bad since he got here. He's fine. He just can't single-handedly correct the lack of offensive depth that there is throughout the entire organization. It's going to take years of good drafting and prospect development to do that. No amount of trade deadline moves or off-season free agent signings was going to fix the problems we have.

 

And since you seem to think otherwise, Vanek or Legwand or any of the guys traded at the deadline are NOT turning this team into a playoff team right now, so any draft picks we would have had to give up for them would have been a waste anyway.

 

I'll take Legwand back, if what Tri is saying is true. Hemsky has been ridiculously good in Ottawa. I'm not one to usually point out the players the Devils could have had, but I hated this trade since day one. If Lou had to make a trade, there were better players to be had that really fit their needs. He possibly tried for all of the guys, but I would have gladly been happy with none over Ruutu. No one gave an arm and a leg for any player at the deadline.

 

None of those guys may be getting the Devils over the hump, but they are UFAs. If you wanted Rutuu, you could have gotten him for much less in free agency when the Canes amnesty him. This isn't meant to be hate on Rutuu because hs is a decent enough player. But it was a bad deal that looks worse now when they are out of it.

 

Lou was a great GM. I don't think you can say he is a great GM anymore. You say there is lack of offensive depth, and it'll take years of drafting and development. Well whose fault is that and who can you trust to fix it.

Edited by devilsrule33

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I don't think for a second Legwand wanted to go to the Devils. If we was going to leave Nashville, it was to Detroit or better. Hemksy, to me, would not have worked in this system - we are not big on 1st or 2nd line forwards who can't play the penalty kill. Vanek would have been nice - can't play the PK - but he's fvckin' Vanek.

 

As far as Lou goes, I think he has done a pretty good job considering he's had to draft in the bottom 10 for years. We have been in the playoffs most of the time and recently the SCF. In the future we will only really be able to blame Lou for 2 draft picks: one is Larsson, who the jury is still out on and the other is the number 9 pick traded for Cory who the jury is also still out on as far as his tenure on the Devils is concerned. The uses of both picks might very well turn out to be great decisions. 

Edited by Neb00rs

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I'll take Legwand back, if what Tri is saying is true. Hemsky has been ridiculously good in Ottawa. I'm not one to usually point out the players the Devils could have had, but I hated this trade since day one. If Lou had to make a trade, there were better players to be had that really fit their needs. He possibly tried for all of the guys, but I would have gladly been happy with none over Ruutu. No one gave an arm and a leg for any player at the deadline.

 

None of those guys may be getting the Devils over the hump, but they are UFAs. If you wanted Rutuu, you could have gotten him for much less in free agency when the Canes amnesty him. This isn't meant to be hate on Rutuu because hs is a decent enough player. But it was a bad deal that looks worse now when they are out of it.

 

Lou was a great GM. I don't think you can say he is a great GM anymore. You say there is lack of offensive depth, and it'll take years of drafting and development. Well whose fault is that and who can you trust to fix it.

 

Loktionov wanted out.  That's why Lou made the deal.  Ruutu is a very good and underrated player, and he gave up peanuts to get him.  I can't see how this was a bad deal.

 

The bottom line is, you can't just look at what the Oilers got for Hemsky, and what the Islanders got for Vanek and say Lou dropped the ball.  Lou could have offered even better packages for both of those players, but bottom line is that the Oilers and Islanders ultimately had the final say in which team they're trading their players to.

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This forum is awesome. 17 pages about a nonsense trade. Does anyone really think they made this trade thinking it solved all their problems?

No, they got something for Loktionov rather than watching him walk away. He was a non factor and so is Ruutu.

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I'll take Legwand back, if what Tri is saying is true. Hemsky has been ridiculously good in Ottawa. I'm not one to usually point out the players the Devils could have had, but I hated this trade since day one. If Lou had to make a trade, there were better players to be had that really fit their needs. He possibly tried for all of the guys, but I would have gladly been happy with none over Ruutu. No one gave an arm and a leg for any player at the deadline.

 

None of those guys may be getting the Devils over the hump, but they are UFAs. If you wanted Rutuu, you could have gotten him for much less in free agency when the Canes amnesty him. This isn't meant to be hate on Rutuu because hs is a decent enough player. But it was a bad deal that looks worse now when they are out of it.

 

Lou was a great GM. I don't think you can say he is a great GM anymore. You say there is lack of offensive depth, and it'll take years of drafting and development. Well whose fault is that and who can you trust to fix it.

 

I am not convinced that the Canes amnesty Ruutu because of how little money they retained in trade.  They are not a cap team, so in order to compliance buyout a player, they have to ascertain that paying 6 million to Ruutu for him not to play for them is better than paying 4+ million for him to play for someone else.  I don't think Ruutu's play is at that level.

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Lou basically decided to stick with what we had deadline day. Lokti wanted out loud got something useful for him. I would expect if Lokti had been happy to stay we would not have made any moves.

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I am not convinced that the Canes amnesty Ruutu because of how little money they retained in trade.  They are not a cap team, so in order to compliance buyout a player, they have to ascertain that paying 6 million to Ruutu for him not to play for them is better than paying 4+ million for him to play for someone else.  I don't think Ruutu's play is at that level.

 

Nor do I think we would have neccesarily been able to sign him even if he had become amnestied.  Or at least our chances of having him for the next couple of seasons would have been far less.

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It does seem like Lou likes to collect underachieving first rounders. Maybe he thinks he can fix them.

Lou hasn't been in enough failed relationships. You have to love someone for who they are and not try to change them.

Edited by Jerzey Devil

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If you redraft the 2001 1st round right now, Tuomo Ruutu is still one of the top players picked.  I'd say he's had the 8th best career of any 1st round pick from 2001.

 

This point really isn't about Ruutu - it's about expectations for 1st round picks.  Some of them go on to be superstars, but a lot of them go on to be players like Ruutu - a sometimes above average winger who's had some nice years, some not so nice ones.

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