Of all the times Lou has curiously fired coaches out of the blue

[dmann422]

This thread is so overreactionary that it's laughable. Just two days ago we had posters saying they weren't afraid to take on any east team in a 7 game series, now the coach and/or gm sucks and they need to go.

Everyone knew coming into this season that we were a fringe playoff contender at best, as others have said with just two or three shootout wins we probably have an entirely different feel. In addition, with a few more goals from Ryder or Bruner- who both have absolutely disappeared here- we're probably in playoff contention. Yet somehow these two glaring weaknesses are the fault of the gm or coach.

Bottom line is in a salary cap league it's very difficult to win when two premier goalscorers leave in consecutive years, Lou tried to patch it and it hasn't been completely successful, and if anything Pete runs a system that somewhat covers up for our lack of scoring.

[Neb00rs]

 When we were up 3-1 I turned to my kids and said teh Devils need to stop trying to score as I see Zidlicky pinch in deep. We forgot what you do with a 2 goal lead. Dump the puck in forecheck and make them shoot form the outside... just like FLA did after they went up 4-3.

 

Remember when 'playing like the Devils' was our thing? Now everyone does it and it seems like we are trying not to do it.

 

This thread is so overreactionary that it's laughable. Just two days ago we had one poster saying they weren't afraid to take on any east team in a 7 game series, now the coach and/or gm sucks and they need to go.

Bottom line is in a salary cap league it's very difficult to win when two premier goalscorers leave in consecutive years, Lou tried to patch it and it hasn't been completely successful, and if anything Pete runs a system that somewhat covers up for our lack of scoring.

 

The first part of your post I fixed. The second point doesn't make sense considering many of our players are having the worst offensive seasons of their career and for much of this season we were sitting at 29th in scoring. Saying that Pete's system covers up our lack of scoring is ludicrous.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Neb00rs

[mouse]

The second point doesn't make sense considering many of our players are having the worst offensive seasons of their career and for much of this season we were sitting at 29th in scoring. Saying that Pete's system covers up our lack of scoring is ludicrous.

Or those guys played on complete lines... We have Tuomo Ruutu on our top line right now. We have Brunner anchoring Elias and Henrique on the 2nd. We have Ryder and Clowe playing without a center on the 3rd. None of that is DeBoer's fault, and before you say change the lines, these are the most effective lines we've had all season.

 

I'm a hug Lou defender, but Larsson in Albany so we can play Sal and Volch is enough to make me consider firing him. The roster isn't DeBoer's fault, and much as he's taken sh!t for the way he's handled young players, Gelly's had plenty of chances, Merrill's got a spot locked up and has mostly gotten better, Henrique has had plenty of chances, and looks great now, and Larsson's on Lou at this point.

Edited March 15, 2014 by mouse

[Neb00rs]

Or those guys played on complete lines... We have Tuomo Ruutu on our top line right now. We have Brunner anchoring Elias and Henrique on the 2nd. We have Ryder and Clowe playing without a center on the 3rd. None of that is DeBoer's fault, and before you say change the lines, these are the most effective lines we've had all season.

 

I'm a hug Lou defender, but Larsson in Albany so we can play Sal and Volch is enough to make me consider firing him. The roster isn't DeBoer's fault, and much as he's taken sh!t for the way he's handled young players, Gelly's had plenty of chances, Merrill's got a spot locked up and has mostly gotten better, Henrique has had plenty of chances, and looks great now, and Larsson's on Lou at this point.

 

The point is that DeBoer's system does not provide more goal scoring than we otherwise would have. Oh, and I have made it clear that I am against firing DeBoer.

[Devilsfan118]

Meh Lou has had a great run, but everyone's time comes eventually.

I'm of the opinion that we need a GM who isn't afraid to rebuild - Lou seems content with keeping this team on the fringe by signing and acquiring bloated veteran contracts.

Outside of Henrique and maybe Boucher (I'm not convinced he becomes anything more than a Ryder-type player), the Devils have literally ZERO young forwards with a good chance to contribute in a top 6 role at the NHL level. This is comically bad. You can point at Kovy and Parise leaving as much as you want, but the reality is that steps need to be taken now to recover from those losses. And the moves Lou has made thus far show me he does not have long term in mind. At all.

I mean, can you blame him? He won't be here during the inevitable rebuild, so why not spend money now and leave the next guy in line with the mess?

Bleh.

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[mfitz804]

If Lou fired Deboer, he should just fire himself. His coaching change worked once with Robinson.

What about when he hired DeBoer and they went from missing the playoffs one year to coming within 2 games of the Cup the following year, was that a good coaching change?

[HellOnICE]

Btw, we've scored goals recently - it's the defense that's been mediocre.

[devilsrule33]

What about when he hired DeBoer and they went from missing the playoffs one year to coming within 2 games of the Cup the following year, was that a good coaching change?

 

He didn't fire Lemaire after the 2011 season. I was talking about in-season change.

 

Anyway, I was wrong because the MacLean to Lemaire change was obviously a very successful one. Although this team right now looks nothing like the-first-half-of-2010-2011 team. I don't think any Devils team in 25 years has.

Edited March 15, 2014 by devilsrule33

[Daniel]

In recent years, Lou has made it clear that he wanted stability with the head coach. That was supposed to be Pat Burns, then he fell ill. Robinson basically said he didn't want to be a head coach anymore. And then Julien evidently lost the team. Lou then got his man in Sutter, who quit. He hoped he found a long term solution in MacLean, but he was a disaster with actually a pretty talented team. (Notice how basically the same group did under Lemaire and DeBoer's first year).

DeBoer has done about as well as you could expect with a team that lacks any high end, much less elite, talent. You might fault him for giving Brodeur too many games, but the team happened to win most of the games he started. Maybe also not having the guts to bunch Salvador, but your new coach is definitely not going to do that either.

Otherwise, you are not going to find a coach that will get much more out of this team. Certainly not Laviolette, who is the last coach you want if you want the younger players to get a chance.

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[SterioDesign]

Btw, we've scored goals recently - it's the defense that's been mediocre.

 

yup. Murphy's law is striking in any possible ways against us it's ridiculous.

[dmann422]

The first part of your post I fixed. The second point doesn't make sense considering many of our players are having the worst offensive seasons of their career and for much of this season we were sitting at 29th in scoring. Saying that Pete's system covers up our lack of scoring is ludicrous.

go back and read that thread. The first five posts alone were of the opinion that only the bruins were a difficult opponent. I'd qoite but im on my phone. That's beside the point though, I'm just trying to highlight the incredible reactionary nature of these boards. If we won last night does this thread exist? No, so one tough loss is the difference between a serious discussion of firing Lou and deboer and everyone sitting around singing koombaya like we're playoff bound.

There is not a doubt in my mind that Pete has helped this team more than hurt it. We do not have elite scorers (and yes you can blame Lou for that if you want), and the system that we run specifically tries to compensate for that lack. The fact that we are 29th in scoring yet are 4 points out if a playoff spot proves my point. Take a look and let me know how many teams are in the bottom ten in scoring yet are in playoff position. I honestly don't know but I doubt there's many.

Are you blaming pete for Ryder not scoring in over 20 games? Or Brunner disappearing for long stretches? Plenty of other forwards have found the back of the net during these times, so I'm not sure how he is somehow holding these players back.

On a side note for the people complaining about Larsson- do you think him in the lineup makes this a playoff team? As much as is like him up here. I'm not so sure.

[Triumph]

Meh Lou has had a great run, but everyone's time comes eventually.

I'm of the opinion that we need a GM who isn't afraid to rebuild - Lou seems content with keeping this team on the fringe by signing and acquiring bloated veteran contracts.

Outside of Henrique and maybe Boucher (I'm not convinced he becomes anything more than a Ryder-type player), the Devils have literally ZERO young forwards with a good chance to contribute in a top 6 role at the NHL level. This is comically bad. You can point at Kovy and Parise leaving as much as you want, but the reality is that steps need to be taken now to recover from those losses. And the moves Lou has made thus far show me he does not have long term in mind. At all.

I mean, can you blame him? He won't be here during the inevitable rebuild, so why not spend money now and leave the next guy in line with the mess?

Bleh.

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Rebuilds are terrible ideas.  Yeah, there's not a ton of forwards here.  That's too bad.  But there are a lot of defensemen, and Lou traded for a top goaltender.  The Schneider deal is really the only recent deal that absurdly privileges the present over the future - that and not dropping the 29th overall pick, which he's been to a large degree bailed out for.

 

If the Devils were dropping players left and right for overpriced veterans, sure.  Loktionov was dealt - he wasn't a guy NJ drafted, and I doubt he was in the plans.

[Jerrydevil]

The only reason I suggested Stevens is because he might actually instill fear in these bozos. Sometimes I look at Deboer and it is Randy Quaid circa 1989. He just seems so meek

Good one!

 

Save the neck for me, Clark.

[Neb00rs]

go back and read that thread. The first five posts alone were of the opinion that only the bruins were a difficult opponent. I'd qoite but im on my phone. That's beside the point though, I'm just trying to highlight the incredible reactionary nature of these boards. If we won last night does this thread exist? No, so one tough loss is the difference between a serious discussion of firing Lou and deboer and everyone sitting around singing koombaya like we're playoff bound.

There is not a doubt in my mind that Pete has helped this team more than hurt it. We do not have elite scorers (and yes you can blame Lou for that if you want), and the system that we run specifically tries to compensate for that lack. The fact that we are 29th in scoring yet are 4 points out if a playoff spot proves my point. Take a look and let me know how many teams are in the bottom ten in scoring yet are in playoff position. I honestly don't know but I doubt there's many.

Are you blaming pete for Ryder not scoring in over 20 games? Or Brunner disappearing for long stretches? Plenty of other forwards have found the back of the net during these times, so I'm not sure how he is somehow holding these players back.

On a side note for the people complaining about Larsson- do you think him in the lineup makes this a playoff team? As much as is like him up here. I'm not so sure.

 

No no no. Yo are not getting it. I have been saying that DeBoer gets a pass and shouldn't be fired because Ryder can't score. I have said Pete should not be fired at all.  I don't even know who you are addressing. I didn't even say that Pete "hasn't helped this team more than he's hurt it." You are changing the argument, with all due respect. I simply said that Pete's system has not had us scoring more than we otherwise would have because it couldn't really have been much worse.

[mfitz804]

He didn't fire Lemaire after the 2011 season. I was talking about in-season change.

Fair enough.

[RizzMB30]

Rebuilds are terrible ideas.  Yeah, there's not a ton of forwards here.  That's too bad.  But there are a lot of defensemen, and Lou traded for a top goaltender.  The Schneider deal is really the only recent deal that absurdly privileges the present over the future - that and not dropping the 29th overall pick, which he's been to a large degree bailed out for.

 

If the Devils were dropping players left and right for overpriced veterans, sure.  Loktionov was dealt - he wasn't a guy NJ drafted, and I doubt he was in the plans.

Exactly! +1.  Why is there an over-abundance of people WANTING a rebuild?? Starting a rebuilding process is admitting defeat/failure in more ways than just one.  I for one don't want the team to suck for the next 3-5 years.  I don't want to be Edmonton or Buffalo.  I totally agree with the Lou Lams philosophy of "No we are not in a rebuilding process, we are simply making some transitions."  Which is true.  Losing star players and having trouble replacing them with reliable goal-scorers is what I would call some rough transitions.

[mouse]

Exactly! +1.  Why is there an over-abundance of people WANTING a rebuild?? Starting a rebuilding process is admitting defeat/failure in more ways than just one.  I for one don't want the team to suck for the next 3-5 years.  I don't want to be Edmonton or Buffalo.  I totally agree with the Lou Lams philosophy of "No we are not in a rebuilding process, we are simply making some transitions."  Which is true.  Losing star players and having trouble replacing them with reliable goal-scorers is what I would call some rough transitions.

I don't want to rebuild, per se, but IMO you need to start making decisions for the future rather than the present, which to me includes getting guys like Larsson time in the NHL rather than burying them in the AHL. I could see sending Gelly down, because there are specific flaws in his game he needs to fix, but Larsson just needs to get better playing elite talent, and that's not going to happen in the AHL. IMO, Larsson is better than Sal, and probably Volch. Even if I'm wrong, Larsson needs to be in games over them.

[RizzMB30]

I don't want to rebuild, per se, but IMO you need to start making decisions for the future rather than the present, which to me includes getting guys like Larsson time in the NHL rather than burying them in the AHL. I could see sending Gelly down, because there are specific flaws in his game he needs to fix, but Larsson just needs to get better playing elite talent, and that's not going to happen in the AHL. IMO, Larsson is better than Sal, and probably Volch. Even if I'm wrong, Larsson needs to be in games over them.

Agreed,  and I think that Larsson was receiving a pretty good amount of ice time while hear in the bigs so I don't believe the argument, "Larsson is getting to play top minutes in the A." I trust Lou when he said that Larsson needed to rebuild his confidence in the minors.  Larsson is still a very young defenseman and I've noticed he can be prone to mistakes, as many young guys are.  The issues is that Salvador played his way into being the favorite veteran defenseman on the team in the 2012 playoffs and was rewarded with a 3mil cap hit contract and the captaincy.  I don't think that it is easy for management(I.E. Lou and DeBoer) to push him out of favor now.  Salvador and Volch can be just as mistake prone.  I also believe that Larsson is in the minors simply due to being one of the easier players to move between rosters in a logjammed d-corps, as he is still on 2-way contract.  I believe in Andy Greene way way way more as a leader of this defensive corps and DeBoer and Lou disagree as Salvador remains and is unable to play his way out of favor.  I feel that most on this board would agree when the 2012 playoffs was the last time that Salvador's play warranted such favor from the higher ups.

[cgb6397]

If Stevens would instill fear as a Head Coach, why wouldn't he do it as an Assistant? His presence is still there, he's still behind the bench. I don't really see your reasoning there.

[dmann422]

No no no. Yo are not getting it. I have been saying that DeBoer gets a pass and shouldn't be fired because Ryder can't score. I have said Pete should not be fired at all.  I don't even know who you are addressing. I didn't even say that Pete "hasn't helped this team more than he's hurt it." You are changing the argument, with all due respect. I simply said that Pete's system has not had us scoring more than we otherwise would have because it couldn't really have been much worse.

fair enough and apologies then, but I'm not sure who was confused. I'm arguing that we don't have a roster that can compete with most playoff teams on pure offensive talent. We're also old and slow. I never said Pete helped this team offensively, I simply argued that Pete has done a good job of finding wins despite our scoring struggles and hasn't held us back like some in this thread seem to believe.

[redruM]

 

Lou not making a move is perhaps a tacit admission he knows this team is **** even though he'll never admit it.  I really do wonder how Lou can let things happen like Larsson languishing in the minors though...that's even worse than the coaching bs.  Larsson and Gelinas were terrific together in November, the team won five of six.  And now Gelinas is in and out of the doghouse while Larsson's stuck in Albany for the rest of the season cause we keep stockpiling slow, mediocre defensemen.

 

While I donot love some of the things PDB does, this falls in LL IMHO, the Larsson thing has me so pissed off I cannot put my true feleing in writing! If you were Larsson would you ever sign longterm w/ a team that burries you in the AHL when you are better then 4 or 5 of the D men with th big club?? makes no sense to me!!

LL will always be an Icon w/ Devils fans, but this game has clearly passed him by, the lack of speed on this team has really caught up, game after game i watch wingers fly up and down the ice as Devil players struggle to keep up.

Are there any can't miss prospects in Albany>???

[Daniel]

 

 

While I donot love some of the things PDB does, this falls in LL IMHO, the Larsson thing has me so pissed off I cannot put my true feleing in writing! If you were Larsson would you ever sign longterm w/ a team that burries you in the AHL when you are better then 4 or 5 of the D men with th big club?? makes no sense to me!!

LL will always be an Icon w/ Devils fans, but this game has clearly passed him by, the lack of speed on this team has really caught up, game after game i watch wingers fly up and down the ice as Devil players struggle to keep up.

Are there any can't miss prospects in Albany>???

 

Larsson will not leave the Devils out of spite.  The Devils control his NHL rights for the next four years I believe.  Even at an NHL minimum, he'll be making more money here than in Sweden, and I don't see a KHL team offering him a ton of money, and that assumes he has any interest in playing in Russia.  And if he really felt spited, he would have demanded a trade like Nino Niedereitter did.  If he played every game this year, the ultimate results in the standings, and other measureables like goals/shots against/for would not be significantly different one way or the other, except, perhaps if he were replacing someone like Salvador or Volchenkov, but, it's an unrealistic expectation anyway.

 

Where it might matter is stunting his development.  None of us really knows whether that's the case one way or the other.  However, what it could very well do is mess up the timing on a long term deal such that he'll end up going to unrestricted free agency at the earliest possible time, and when he's quite young.  Of course, the new CBA gives the Devils a big advantage in retaining him, so if he turns out to be the elite defenseman that people hope that he'll be, he'll either be traded for a very good return, or re-signed.

 

Of course, it might be the case that our expectations were too high in the first place, and that he'll be a good, but not great player, like Karl Alzner, who was a fifth overall pick.  This is probably the most likely scenario.  Despite popular misconceptions, DeBoer does not have some animus against younger players.  If he did, Merrill would be a regular scratch, and Henrique would not been playing with Parise and Kovalchuk in his rookie season.  Lou also would not want Larsson languishing in the AHL for Merrill, Gelinas or perhaps even Fayne, if Larsson were really a much better alternative.  The fact is, is that right now, he probably isn't. 

[Steadevils]

For all the talk of calling up Larsson, at this point I'd rather have Larsson getting a deep run of AHL playoff experience (let's go A-Devs!) than a 16 game NHL run that is setting up to be pretty depressing. Especially if confidence is his main issue.

[LucifersDog]

All things negative lately point to Lou.

Does Lou have too much power today? Is Lou too old to admit he has made some recent mistakes? Should the future season be intrusted to Lou?

IMO Lou should retire for the betterment of the NJ Devil's future.

Edited March 17, 2014 by LucifersDog

[Devilsfan118]

I think a lot of you guys are kinda delusional regarding the success this team has had over the past two decades - you just can't do it like the Devils have anymore.  This "retooling" thing is great when you have a core to "tool" around - the Devils don't have much a young core to speak of, at least offensively.

 

A rebuilding period is inevitable - I'd rather get it out of the way now than later.  What's worse - a couple rough years, or this continuous bubble team bullsh!t?

 

And we're not talking about an Oilers or Sabres rebuild - they're two of the poorest run sports franchises I can think of.  If you have faith in Lou and Conte, you've got to think a couple higher picks (again, not necessarily #1 overall, but better than 20-30) would help tremendously in the next future years.