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Devilstail

I'm just going to come out and say it.

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Bro.. you're kidding with this, right?

..you're saying that the outlook is better than it seems, because we don't have a "20-50-12" record? That would make us the worst team in the NHL. Comparing us to the rest of the teams in the league as of right now.. the Devils have manufactured more wins than the: Islanders, Panthers, Oilers, Buffalo... AND THAT'S IT! Year after year, there are plenty of teams that miss the playoffs by 6-8 points. That doesn't mean alot of them aren't sh!t.

 

The; "solid coach" you're referring to, is under .500 here after 3 seasons.. just as he was the 3 seasons he was in Florida. I don't know how you can emphatically say he has the respect of the players either.. unless you're in that lockerroom. I haven't heard a player swoon over him all year. What I HAVE read in quotes however, was Jagr destroy DeBoer to the media -- "there's alot of coaching decisions I don't understand"  two months ago.. and Jagr is player that I respect.

 

Pretty sure Beezer that Deboer is well over NHL .500 for his 3 years in New Jersey. (24 games actually) Why even bring up Florida? Multiple owners, multiiple GMs, multiple sh!t teams, and he still did a lot of good things with that team. The Devils have more ROW wins than almost half the league including a couple of playoff teams. Goes to show you how misleading the standings can be. 

 

As for the respect thing...Randy Miller of NJ.com did a pretty good piece on what the players think: Devils fans want new coach? Players rave about Pete Deboer, system

 

 

"Listen fans, I don't want to live in the past, but it's the same coach that we went to the finals with (in 2012)," Zubrus said. "To be honest with you, a lot of times when we fall off our system, that's when we don't do as well. When we start doing a little too much of our own thing, that's when it doesn't work."

 

 

 

 

"I think Pete is one of the best as far as how he goes about his business," Clowe said. "He's intelligent. The thing I like about being here is when you win, you get that 'won as a team' feeling. We're a team that is the sum of all of our parts and maybe a little bit more. In San Jose, we had a little bit more names as far as high-end talent, and we played to a different style, opened it up a little bit more. Here, we're in the games. Pete's been a very good coach here.

 

 

What's Fayne's message to fans?

"I would say you want a coach that the players respect, first of all, and I think Pete definitely has the team's respect. The only way he can do that is by putting in a good system, a system we think we can win with. We rely on him to make the right calls in the lineup, whether you're in or not. You know he just wants to win and he doesn't play favorites. I think his heart and head are both in the right place where he's always doing whatever is best for the team."

 

Beezer, do you think switching coaches to some NHL retread is suddenly going to make this team exceptionally better? Maybe, next year if the Devils win 7 more shootout games, we will be praising some new coach for really doing nothing more or less.

Edited by devilsrule33

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Some of PDB's roster decisions baffle and frustrate me, but the fact that he had this relatively inept team in the playoff hunt until almost the last two weeks of the season should be a testament to just how good his system and methods are.

 

He was dealt a pretty sh!t hand.  Can you imagine being in his shoes?  "Hey Pete, your two best offensive players are gone, your defensive corps is bloated with some arguably sub-par veterans that you can't scratch without the risk of losing the locker room, and you've got one of the franchise's greatest legends playing the role of drama queen.  Oh, and I'm expecting you to make the playoffs.  Good luck!"

 

Man I wouldn't take on that challenge in NHL 14. 

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The issue here is that its not just losing kovalchuk.  We lost Parise too.  We lost Gionta as well.  Patty is the only one really that led to our shootout success that is still there.  If you remember - probably not -- i was one who wanted Parise traded at the deadline before he left us as a free agent.  I said you couldnt lose a guy like that for nothing.  Teams see it coming -  Lou plays stubborn thinking he can sign all of his FA's and to be honest he is about 50 pct on the players he wants to resign.  And his "B" plan of trying to sign 2-3 "B" rate players to replace said "A Rate" player usually doesn't work.

 

I disagree, LL had always operated this way w/ pending free agents, if the team has a shot at the playoffs he will not trade stars... and BTW the devs made it to the Finals that year.. did you forget that?? Losing Zach sucked, but I cannot say I would have done it differently...

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No, no, no. The current outlook is better than the early 80's comparisons being made. How many times was the early 80's team even a contender for a playoffs.

 

I didn’t know you were trying to compare these last 4 seasons to the teams from the early 80’s. In that aspect, you are correct. The ineptitude is far from the failures of 30 years ago.

 

Pretty sure Beezer that Deboer is well over NHL .500 for his 3 years in New Jersey. (24 games actually) Why even bring up Florida? Multiple owners, multiiple GMs, multiple sh!t teams, and he still did a lot of good things with that team. The Devils have more ROW wins than almost half the league including a couple of playoff teams. Goes to show you how misleading the standings can be. 

 

As for the respect thing...Randy Miller of NJ.com did a pretty good piece on what the players think: Devils fans want new coach? Players rave about Pete Deboer, system

 

Beezer, do you think switching coaches to some NHL retread is suddenly going to make this team exceptionally better? Maybe, next year if the Devils win 7 more shootout games, we will be praising some new coach for really doing nothing more or less.

 

I’m not abolishing 3 seasons with another organization, for reasons of “multiple sh!t teams” excuse. I’m pretty sure just about every head coach who’s ever been canned will echo the excuse of; “It wasn’t my fault, my team just sucked.” Now (as if that’s not enough) we’re not to focus on these last two seasons either, because DeBoer got dealt a bad hand with the players on them??  :doh1:  So of PD’s 6 seasons in the league, the only one that deserves a spotlight is the one that was incredibly deep.. where he had 2 Head Coach caliber Assistants working under him?? I see.

 

..and 24 games above what??? Regulation losses? 32 losses via shootout\overtime are still losses.. you don’t just strike them from the record. We factor in DeBoer’s SO wins and OT wins into his overall victory equation, do we not? Oh that’s right, he only gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to negative criticism. The good karma constitutes as good coaching. :thumbsup:

 

Furthermore.. your “ROW wins” appraisal is median abstracts devilsrule. EVERY coach has outlying feathers in their caps. “Kevin Constantine has the best winning percentage out of any Devils Head Coach in the history of the organization” -- “Brent Sutter won 50 games in one season.. the most ever in franchise history” --These are isolated statistics. They don’t mean that they were good NHL Head Coaches.

 

This article you’re showing me is from 2 months ago. Tomorrow will be our 20th game played since then. (we’ve won 8 games since January 31st) I’d like to think there may be an addendum in afterthought here, no? :giggle:  Lip service and inside judgment(s) are two separate things. I expect the players to say all the right things publicly regarding their coach. --3 players of the 30 who’ve played this season I might add-- That doesn’t mean things aren’t boiling over on the inside.

------------------------------------------------------------

To answer your question on: “do I think switching coaches would improve things?” –I can’t say for sure. I don’t know who would be the next to come in. But #1) I’ve seen enough of Pete DeBoer. 5/6 seasons missing the playoffs, doesn’t usually get you a 7th season automatically. #2) I would at least like to see if another person can get more out of this team before Lou blows it up. I don’t think that’s so unfair to ask.

 

 

EDIT:  And please… PLEASE spare me the shootout lamenting aswell. Please!

Bad karma and good fortune are variable exploits in sports, especially when talking about the shootout. DeBoer won 13 games via shootout in the 2012 season fans over-glorify. Maybe we already have a new head coach if we won only 6 of those. Maybe DeBoer wouldn’t even be here, if Florida scored an OT goal in the first round. Maybe if a frog had wings, he wouldn’t bump his ass hopping.

 

..I guess Woody Johnson really knows what he’s doing, extended Rex Ryan year after year, milking those 2 Championship appearances. How long does Lou milk 2012? –two more years.. three more years..

Edited by Beezer34
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If anything the loser point HURTS Pete's record as opposed to something keeping it afloat, since everyone's shootout wins put their point totals farther above ours.

And if we won six shootouts instead of 12 in 2012 we'd STILL be the sixth seed.

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I didn’t know you were trying to compare these last 4 seasons to the teams from the early 80’s. In that aspect, you are correct. The ineptitude is far from the failures of 30 years ago.

 

 

I’m not abolishing 3 seasons with another organization, for reasons of “multiple sh!t teams” excuse. I’m pretty sure just about every head coach who’s ever been canned will echo the excuse of; “It wasn’t my fault, my team just sucked.” Now (as if that’s not enough) we’re not to focus on these last two seasons either, because DeBoer got dealt a bad hand with the players on them??  :doh1:  So of PD’s 6 seasons in the league, the only one that deserves a spotlight is the one that was incredibly deep.. where he had 2 Head Coach caliber Assistants working under him?? I see.

 

..and 24 games above what??? Regulation losses? 32 losses via shootout\overtime are still losses.. you don’t just strike them from the record. We factor in DeBoer’s SO wins and OT wins into his overall victory equation, do we not? Oh that’s right, he only gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to negative criticism. The good karma constitutes as good coaching. :thumbsup:

 

Furthermore.. your “ROW wins” appraisal is median abstracts devilsrule. EVERY coach has outlying feathers in their caps. “Kevin Constantine has the best winning percentage out of any Devils Head Coach in the history of the organization” -- “Brent Sutter won 50 games in one season.. the most ever in franchise history” --These are isolated statistics. They don’t mean that they were good NHL Head Coaches.

 

This article you’re showing me is from 2 months ago. Tomorrow will be our 20th game played since then. (we’ve won 8 games since January 31st) I’d like to think there may be an addendum in afterthought here, no? :giggle:  Lip service and inside judgment(s) are two separate things. I expect the players to say all the right things publicly regarding their coach. --3 players of the 30 who’ve played this season I might add-- That doesn’t mean things aren’t boiling over on the inside.

------------------------------------------------------------

To answer your question on: “do I think switching coaches would improve things?” –I can’t say for sure. I don’t know who would be the next to come in. But #1) I’ve seen enough of Pete DeBoer. 5/6 seasons missing the playoffs, doesn’t usually get you a 7th season automatically. #2) I would at least like to see if another person can get more out of this team before Lou blows it up. I don’t think that’s so unfair to ask.

 

 

EDIT:  And please… PLEASE spare me the shootout lamenting aswell. Please!

Bad karma and good fortune are variable exploits in sports, especially when talking about the shootout. DeBoer won 13 games via shootout in the 2012 season fans over-glorify. Maybe we already have a new head coach if we won only 6 of those. Maybe DeBoer wouldn’t even be here, if Florida scored an OT goal in the first round. Maybe if a frog had wings, he wouldn’t bump his ass hopping.

 

..I guess Woody Johnson really knows what he’s doing, extended Rex Ryan year after year, milking those 2 Championship appearances. How long does Lou milk 2012? –two more years.. three more years..

 

 

Let's not worry so much about Florida. Good excuses/bad excuses...I don't have that many details, but I do know no coach has done sh!t with that team for 18 years since Doug MacLean led them to the Stanley Cup Finals. That includes a lot of historically successful coaches from Bryan Murray, Terry Murray, Mike Keenan (meh) and Jacques Martin. They have already fired a coach since Deboer, so that situation hasn't gotten much better. 

 

Lets just focus on Deboer's tenure in New Jersy. Deboer should be judged on that and only that. Being dealt a band hand is a real thing. I think he played a bad hand fairly well for the most part. The team has done fairly well all things considered. Last year they replace Parise, Sykora and Pony with a combination of Bobby Butler, Matt D'Agastoni, a much sh!tter version of Pony and Steve Sullivan. They played really well even when they lost Kovalchuk. Their goaltending was easily among the worst in the league. This year well...what's the point...you know what's happened with this team since then. If you think this team has underachieved, well I think your standards much too high.

 

As for that article I linked, nobody had to say anything. There is no reason for players to say anything good publicly for a coach they didn't care about. No reason for them to address the fans personally. It wasn't just 3 players...I just quoted 3 players. When players don't get along with a coach, you usually here about it some way or the other. We haven't gotten any of that yet. I am not saying that necessarily matters...but you countered DP26's "respect" comment, so I thought I'd show you this.

 

The shootout stuff has been addressed before. They were lucky in 2012, yes, but there was no shootout in the 2012 playoffs....and it didn't hurt them too much.

Edited by devilsrule33

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..I guess Woody Johnson really knows what he’s doing, extended Rex Ryan year after year, milking those 2 Championship appearances. How long does Lou milk 2012? –two more years.. three more years..

Without really reading your whole rebuttle and jumping into this discussion, to be fair, milking two conference championship appearances from 2008/2009 in 2014 isn't quite the same as milking one championship appearance from 2012 in 2014.  You're talking about another 3-4 years, which in term's of a coaches contract and tenure, is often times pretty significant, especially when you consider the fact that for the past decade or so the title of head coach has been quite the revolving door for certain "in distress" franchises in this league.

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I didn’t know you were trying to compare these last 4 seasons to the teams from the early 80’s. In that aspect, you are correct. The ineptitude is far from the failures of 30 years ago.

 

 

I’m not abolishing 3 seasons with another organization, for reasons of “multiple sh!t teams” excuse. I’m pretty sure just about every head coach who’s ever been canned will echo the excuse of; “It wasn’t my fault, my team just sucked.” Now (as if that’s not enough) we’re not to focus on these last two seasons either, because DeBoer got dealt a bad hand with the players on them??  :doh1:  So of PD’s 6 seasons in the league, the only one that deserves a spotlight is the one that was incredibly deep.. where he had 2 Head Coach caliber Assistants working under him?? I see.

 

..and 24 games above what??? Regulation losses? 32 losses via shootout\overtime are still losses.. you don’t just strike them from the record. We factor in DeBoer’s SO wins and OT wins into his overall victory equation, do we not? Oh that’s right, he only gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to negative criticism. The good karma constitutes as good coaching. :thumbsup:

 

Furthermore.. your “ROW wins” appraisal is median abstracts devilsrule. EVERY coach has outlying feathers in their caps. “Kevin Constantine has the best winning percentage out of any Devils Head Coach in the history of the organization” -- “Brent Sutter won 50 games in one season.. the most ever in franchise history” --These are isolated statistics. They don’t mean that they were good NHL Head Coaches.

 

This article you’re showing me is from 2 months ago. Tomorrow will be our 20th game played since then. (we’ve won 8 games since January 31st) I’d like to think there may be an addendum in afterthought here, no? :giggle:  Lip service and inside judgment(s) are two separate things. I expect the players to say all the right things publicly regarding their coach. --3 players of the 30 who’ve played this season I might add-- That doesn’t mean things aren’t boiling over on the inside.

------------------------------------------------------------

To answer your question on: “do I think switching coaches would improve things?” –I can’t say for sure. I don’t know who would be the next to come in. But #1) I’ve seen enough of Pete DeBoer. 5/6 seasons missing the playoffs, doesn’t usually get you a 7th season automatically. #2) I would at least like to see if another person can get more out of this team before Lou blows it up. I don’t think that’s so unfair to ask.

 

 

EDIT:  And please… PLEASE spare me the shootout lamenting aswell. Please!

Bad karma and good fortune are variable exploits in sports, especially when talking about the shootout. DeBoer won 13 games via shootout in the 2012 season fans over-glorify. Maybe we already have a new head coach if we won only 6 of those. Maybe DeBoer wouldn’t even be here, if Florida scored an OT goal in the first round. Maybe if a frog had wings, he wouldn’t bump his ass hopping.

 

..I guess Woody Johnson really knows what he’s doing, extended Rex Ryan year after year, milking those 2 Championship appearances. How long does Lou milk 2012? –two more years.. three more years..

u should expect fans to hav some loyalty to the guy after 2012. its not that surprising

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I disagree, LL had always operated this way w/ pending free agents, if the team has a shot at the playoffs he will not trade stars... and BTW the devs made it to the Finals that year.. did you forget that?? Losing Zach sucked, but I cannot say I would have done it differently...

People tend to forget how much easier hindsight makes those kind of decisions. We always do the best we can with the information we have at the time. It is pretty obvious that if LL had traded Zach while NJ was a contender and lost in the finals anyway that people would be complaining that he could have made the difference. LL was damned if he did or didn't. I'm with redruM on this. 

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Without really reading your whole rebuttle and jumping into this discussion, to be fair, milking two conference championship appearances from 2008/2009 in 2014 isn't quite the same as milking one championship appearance from 2012 in 2014.  You're talking about another 3-4 years, which in term's of a coaches contract and tenure, is often times pretty significant.

 

Rex wasn't the coach for the Jets in 2008. The Colts AFC Championship came January 2010.. the title game against Pittsburgh came January 2011.

At least Rex made the playoffs twice, and won 4 playoff rounds. -which is more than what DeBoer can say. Rex also had a sh!t team in 2011.. a team even worse in 2012.. and a team so bad on paper in 2013, that no one expected him to win more than 4 games. He also never had a legit QB. Yet now, heading into his 6th season, he's had only 1 year finishing with a record under .500

 

u should expect fans to hav some loyalty to the guy after 2012. its not that surprising

 

Fans SHOULD look back fondly on that 2012 season. But it shouldn't blind you to the point where he's no longer being judged without a bleeding heart.

Believe me, nothing surprises me from DeBoer apologists. Nothing! I've heard absolutely every mulligan, cop-out, excuse, alibi, defense, and explanation known to man. There's a plea list from here to Michigan of reasons for Poor 'ol Petey, and why it's never his fault. I can recite them in my sleep.

 

..the whole thing is moot anyway, because I doubt Lou extends him for a 4th season.

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It's really odd how the same arguments you've been making for Rex you dismiss when it comes to Pete - bad team, this and that.  Where have the Devils been picked the last couple years, it's not like the pundits thought we were going to win any division titles?

 

I'm not saying I don't agree with you to an extent (my issue with Pete isn't results, but roster management) but you have to see the irony of some of your statements.

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IMO this season has two major points that you can go back to and hang your hat on:

1) starting the season with only 6 points in our first 9 games. The long west coast trip to start really hurt this team, especially the blown leads in Calgary and Edmonton.

2) the shootout (enough said)

As far as deboer, I can see arguments either way. IMO the only time he had a quality, healthy roster, he took the team to a cup final. If you want to say he can't live off that anymore that's fine, I understand, but personally I think he gets more out of a lackluster roster than some coaches would, and this team has played better than their skill should allow- id also point out many had fairly low expectations for the team, so our record (minus the shootout) shouldn't come as a surprise.

Overall I would keep Pete around and see what he can do once he doesn't have to balance the goalie situation (I really believe Lou has made the call on Marty getting as many games as he has) and hopefully gets better forward core next year.

But again, I inderstand this is a devils fanbase with high expectations, so to think Pete should be shown the door this offseason is not unreasonable, so long as you have an adequate replacement in mind.

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It's really odd how the same arguments you've been making for Rex you dismiss when it comes to Pete - bad team, this and that.  Where have the Devils been picked the last couple years, it's not like the pundits thought we were going to win any division titles?

 

Here's the difference Has... Rex CAN use the “bad teams” excuse 2 or 3 times heading into his 6th season! I'm being asked to exonerate DeBoer FIVE times out of SIX seasons, off reasons of personnel from the PD Sympathy Train.

 

..believe me, if Rex continues to miss the postseason these next 2 years, he will run out of lifelines from (not only) me, but every other Rex Ryan supporter aswell. He may even run out if he doesn't make it after THIS upcoming season. No matter who you are, the bad teams excuse gets long-in-the-tooth for any head coach. --and that goes for any sport.

 

As far as deboer, I can see arguments either way. IMO the only time he had a quality, healthy roster, he took the team to a cup final. If you want to say he can't live off that anymore that's fine, I understand. So to think Pete should be shown the door this offseason is not unreasonable, so long as you have an adequate replacement in mind.

 

..and for the record, just so we're clear.. I DON'T think that answer is Scott Stevens just yet. I'd like to see Lou do an interview process that consists of both coaches with no NHL exp. aswell as ones who've already coached in the league.

Either way though, DeBoer is dead man walking. In the remote chance he does get extended for next season, his leash will be so short, that an extensive losing streak, or streaks, will out him before December.

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I can't see Deboer getting the axe. He has a depleted talent base at forward, limited offensive talent on the blue line. Lou knows this. I think he is back next season, especially if by some miracle we sneak in the playoffs.

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agreed i dont think deboer is going anywhere either, we will see him here again next season

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Re: DeBoer getting canned- I could totally see a Rangers/ Vancouver-like swap with Pete going to Toronto and Carlyle coming here. Not based on anything but my own speculation, but I could see that happening if both coaches get fired from their current jobs.

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Carlyle wouldn't be horrible (certainly had early success) but much like Deboer he's starting to look like a coach whose teams collapse.

 

I hope Nashville fires Trotz. That's the guy I'd want

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Carlyle wouldn't be horrible (certainly had early success) but much like Deboer he's starting to look like a coach whose teams collapse.

I hope Nashville fires Trotz. That's the guy I'd want

Trotz would be amazing. Would instantly be at the top of my list.

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Not sure why anyone here would want Carlyle with what he has done with Toronto for the last 3 years. They are a fvcking mess. I have heard a lot of rumblings about Carlyle to Winnipeg.

 

Trotz over Deboer? I don't see much difference. One coach's team slipped when Parise left and the other's team slipped when Suter left. Predators have really struggled over the last two seasons. Not saying it's on Trotz. It's just the same way I don't look at the Devils record and have a problem with what Deboer has done.

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DeBoer should get one more year. It's an above .500 team whose best forward is 42, could not win a shoot out (which is not a coaching issue), and, for whatever reason, did not give one of the game's best goalies 70 percent of the starts. While you can certainly blame him for the last issue, it's looking more and more likely that it won't be an issue next year when Marty is no longer on the team.

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Carlyle wouldn't be horrible 

 

Right, he'd be atrocious. The only reason he has a rep as a defensive coach is he won a Norris and lucked into two HoFers on D in Anaheim. If you wanna change the image of the team from "good defensively" to "terrible defensively", it's a good step.

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Carlye??? is that a joke.    

 

Agree 100% with "7" I would LOVE Trotz.  Probably the most underrated coach in the NHL.   Even less talent that us, yet he makes them compete. 

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I think he has earned another year regardless, but I do think it's funny how much two games influence your opinions.

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