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Devils Pride 26

In a Season of Problems, Brodeur was the Biggest

123 posts in this topic

Not to attack you, but that bolded statement makes no sense at all.  SV% is on average lower when you face less shots as a 'tender, hence you should be looking at SV% anyway.  GAA has nothing to do with shots against.  The GAA is evidence that the defense and the goalie was not scored on very often.  You can argue that the team defense kept shots low, but that only amplifies the value of the SV% because a goalie who faces less shots is going to get nailed when he does allow one, for example, 9/10 Saves is a 90% 9/11 is 81.1%.  On top of that, I agree that 2.50 GAA isn't really acceptable. 

Now to discuss Marty.  I think the guy is really done, but try telling him that.  My prediction is that he shop around and look elsewhere for more playing time and will not get what he wants, then come crawling back and accept Lou's deal, which is hopefully close to 1.5 to 2m/year.  A little bit higher than that would be acceptable and I think he'll accept that his role is a backup.  He'll play maybe 20-30 games (hopefully less) and he'll have to deal that.  The question is, do any of you believe that Kinkaid or Wedge is ready to be a serviceable backup? Would you trust either of them with 10-20 games(Or more if Cory would get injured, god forbid).  Wedgewood maybe, but I think he's still too young.  You don't have success in this league without two great goalies.  There's a reason the Devils went far in 2012 because they had too serviceable goalies who played well during the season.

 

 

(Less shots faced) x (save%) = GAA that will be less than (More shots faced) x (the same save%) per 60 minutes

 

Cory faced just about the same number of shots per game as Marty did and played behind the same players...didn't seem to affect his save% at all.   

 

I think the backup probably comes from outside the organization.  Kinkaid did not have a good second half, and Wedge appears to making progress, but still looks like he has a ways to go.  Marty can't stay...just too many distractions, and I don't think he'll ever truly think of himself as anyone's backup...I don't think he'll ever have a backup mentality.  I also think it's not going to be that hard to find someone who can better Marty's numbers...sadly, Marty's current level is near-bottom.  Consistently average to good from whoever replaces him will be an improvement.   

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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This Blame-Marty is non-sense.

 

What killed us this year were (in order):

 

1. Our inability to score in shootouts. if we were 50% W, we'd be in the playoffs and this thread would not exist.

2. Our inability to score 5-5. Shut out too many times and we can't score even on backups and the other teams know it. (Blame Lou for having old scorers that can't score)

3. Our inability (blame the coach) to protect 3rd period and 2 goal leads. How many times do I have to see Zidlicy pinching down while we are up 3-1 or Jagr taking late 3rd period lazy shifts when we have the lead?

What? No.  That's on the players for not executing on defense.  The coach has no control over a deflection in front of our goalie with less than 30 seconds left or even 5 minutes left.  That is on the players. The coach can teach good positioning and decision-making, but when the game is on the line, there isn't much the coach can do.  What is inexcusable is having the CBGB line playing crucial minutes in the 3rd period.  I understand the trust in the line as a unit, but the only player I would trust from that line is Carter.

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This season rests on Lou's head.  For the Kovalchuk fiasco and for ignoring his best franchise player since he drafted Patrik Elias and letting him walk based on his ludicrous 1940s free agent negotiating style.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: for a man who fires people as if it were a bodily function, Lou should fire himself for the predicament he put this team in this year.

 

Ryder can drive him to the airport.

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I just knew this post was coming.

 

Yeah it has nothing to do with getting shutout ten times, not being able to score a goal in 9 of 11 shootouts, Ryder scoring one goal in three months yet still being third on the team in goals while a 42 year old is our leading scorer or Cory dropping the ball just about every time they tried to give it to him to run with.

 

This.

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Yes there are a number of things that went wrong. But to not hold Marty accountable for his terrible play is not helping

 

No one said Marty shouldn't be held accountable, but the thread title puts all the blame on him, which is wrong.

This season rests on Lou's head.  For the Kovalchuk fiasco and for ignoring his best franchise player since he drafted Patrik Elias and letting him walk based on his ludicrous 1940s free agent negotiating style.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: for a man who fires people as if it were a bodily function, Lou should fire himself for the predicament he put this team in this year.

 

Ryder can drive him to the airport.

 

Which Kovy fiasco is Lou's fault? The one where the bankrupt owner pushed to have him signed at all costs or the one where Kovalchuk retired at age 30 to go home?

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This Blame-Marty is non-sense.

 

What killed us this year were (in order):

 

1. Our inability to score in shootouts. if we were 50% W, we'd be in the playoffs and this thread would not exist.

2. Our inability to score 5-5. Shut out too many times and we can't score even on backups and the other teams know it. (Blame Lou for having old scorers that can't score)

3. Our inability (blame the coach) to protect 3rd period and 2 goal leads. How many times do I have to see Zidlicy pinching down while we are up 3-1 or Jagr taking late 3rd period lazy shifts when we have the lead?

 

Hahaha.  Blame Brodeur is nonense, but the inability to protect leads is on the coach, and has nothing to do with the goalie.  Well, now I've seen everything.

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This season rests on Lou's head.  For the Kovalchuk fiasco and for ignoring his best franchise player since he drafted Patrik Elias and letting him walk based on his ludicrous 1940s free agent negotiating style.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: for a man who fires people as if it were a bodily function, Lou should fire himself for the predicament he put this team in this year.

 

Ryder can drive him to the airport.

 

How do you blame Lou for Kovalchuk??? 

 

a.  Lou never wanted him, Vanderbeek pressured Lou to make that move.  

b.  Kovalchuk "retired", Lou didn't force him to do it.

 

I think Lou did a great job of getting replacement for him.  Jagr, Clowe and Brunner were great signings (for the price), and on paper Ryder was a good signing.   I am more concerned about our drafting which hasn't done anything since Zach which I put on Conte.

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How do you blame Lou for Kovalchuk??? 

 

a.  Lou never wanted him, Vanderbeek pressured Lou to make that move.  

b.  Kovalchuk "retired", Lou didn't force him to do it.

 

I think Lou did a great job of getting replacement for him.  Jagr, Clowe and Brunner were great signings (for the price), and on paper Ryder was a good signing.   I am more concerned about our drafting which hasn't done anything since Zach which I put on Conte.

Yes, but you can't say that ALL of our recent draft picks have been horrible.  There's Henrique, Larsson, Fayne and probably a few others that I can't look up atm.

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I don't want to sound melodramatic, but I'm not sure what I'll do if Marty is brought back next season.

 

I have absolutely no interest in going through this BS again where Marty gets starts solely because of his legacy.

 

+1

 

If they do bring him back then I wonder when they'll be handing out tickets for 'legacy' fans.  At some point Marty will have to realize that life just doesn't work like that.  We don't get tickets just because we followed the Devils thru the "suck era" and he shouldnt be getting any (more) passes for what he did in the past.  As it is he will be in the HoF, his number will be retired, and he will always be loved and respected and damn appreciated by this fan base.  Why does he have to ruin that?  Time catches us all... does he think he isn't human?

Edited by AEWHistory

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This Blame-Marty is non-sense.

 

What killed us this year were (in order):

 

1. Our inability to score in shootouts. if we were 50% W, we'd be in the playoffs and this thread would not exist.

2. Our inability to score 5-5. Shut out too many times and we can't score even on backups and the other teams know it. (Blame Lou for having old scorers that can't score)

3. Our inability (blame the coach) to protect 3rd period and 2 goal leads. How many times do I have to see Zidlicy pinching down while we are up 3-1 or Jagr taking late 3rd period lazy shifts when we have the lead?

 

How many times were the Devils up two goals in the 3rd this year and blew the lead? Once (in Edmonton)? Any other game? 

 

It's funny how many fans were upset about the Devils playing too passive of a 3rd period when their opponents tied the game with the net empty 3 games in a row, but you feel it was the opposite? Each group wants to blame the coach, but no one can get on the same page with the strategy in the 3rd period.

 

I think this is a perfect example of the Brodeur fanboys, and there are a ton of them out there. Saying Brodeur was not part of the reason the Devils missed the playoffs is a way bigger stretch than saying he was the reason.

Edited by devilsrule33

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How do you blame Lou for Kovalchuk??? 

 

a.  Lou never wanted him, Vanderbeek pressured Lou to make that move.  

b.  Kovalchuk "retired", Lou didn't force him to do it.

 

I think Lou did a great job of getting replacement for him.  Jagr, Clowe and Brunner were great signings (for the price), and on paper Ryder was a good signing.   I am more concerned about our drafting which hasn't done anything since Zach which I put on Conte.

 

Enough with the Lou never wanted him. He traded for the guy, and of course wanted him. Was he comfortable giving out a 17-year $100 million deal. From all accounts, not really. But at the time, he got the cap number down, so I don't think he was that upset about it.

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Quick question...is a "fanboy" the same thing as a "manchild?"  Just wondering...

 

Brodeur was not great this season, but he surely isn't the number 1 reason this team is going to miss the playoffs.  The fact that they can't score consistently and, as others have pointed out, have been shutout in over 12% of their games this season is the main problem here.  Should Cory have started more...sure.  I think most reasonable people would agree with that.  But too say that Marty "killed this season" and attempting to blame everything on him is ludicrous. 

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You cant blame a season on one person. Its a TEAM sport, the team as a whole sucked and couldnt win big games vs bottom of the league teams. Coaches are also to blame as they are responsible for the on ice product.

Anyone whose ever played a team sport knows this simple saying, "you win as a team, you lose as a team". Every person on the team,the coaches, and even lou are to blame for the season. Even with that if we only went 3/11in the shootouts we would at.least still be in the race.

With that said this is only the first time theyve missed the playoffs 2 years in a row since 1987 (27yrs). THERE ARE 28 other teams that would love to say that. (Redwings are the only ones more consistant then

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I think this is a perfect example of the Brodeur fanboys, and there are a ton of them out there. Saying Brodeur was not part of the reason the Devils missed the playoffs is a way bigger stretch than saying he was the reason.

 

Has anyone said Brodeur wasn't part of the reason? It looks like everyone is in agreement that Brodeur played terribly.

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I just knew this post was coming.

 

Yeah it has nothing to do with getting shutout ten times, not being able to score a goal in 9 of 11 shootouts, Ryder scoring one goal in three months yet still being third on the team in goals while a 42 year old is our leading scorer or Cory dropping the ball just about every time they tried to give it to him to run with.

This.

 

I also love how no one said a fvcking peep on the goal that Cory let up last night, when virtually the same thing, except 10x harder happened a week or so again to Brodeur during the game when he was pulled.  I'm talking about that 3rd goal -- a similar slapshot from a similar place on the ice (in the slot area near the top of the faceoff circles).  The difference with the one on Brodeur was that there was a player standing right in his grill, AND the puck was deflected between his legs.  Cory's was a one-timer which albeit is hard to stop and it was definitely a fast shot, but he did have a clear look at it and also no deflection, just a straight b-line to the net.  It blew by him, and we lost 1-0.   The funny thing is, the Flames got perfect goaltending from a journeyman career "backup" in Ramo.  We, from our supposed future-star and world-class goalie, got "near-perfect" goaltending, but it wasn't good enough to win.  Now, you have to put a lot of that on the team in front for forcing your goalie to be perfect and not being able to score one damn goal, but that was an all too familiar trend for nearly 10-15 fvcking years with Brodeur in net, and many, many, MANY times in that decade+ he was asked to be perfect and we enjoyed 3 cups and dozens of years of consecutive post-season appearances because he was.  Again, it sucks to put your goalie in that spot, but the truly great ones step up to the plate and are able to "steal" games as the cliché goes, and unfortunately Schneider was unable to do that this year.  I'm not saying he isn't our goalie of the future, but I am saying the season was not Brodeur's fault, and Cory, despite how much emphasis people want to put on Sv %, was not leaps and bounds better.  There are a million reasons why, most of which have been discussed ad nauseam here, and it's not worth mentioning anymore.  Those here who want to keep debating it and shouting from the rooftops are in denial and only fooling themselves.  Enough with these stupid threads that are wasting time and just causing a pissing contest among our forumers.  Let's start talking about 2014-15 and the draft in a few months.  There's nothing left to save this season and everything else to this point is now in the mirror.

 

End.

Edited by NJDfan1711

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Has anyone said Brodeur wasn't part of the reason? It looks like everyone is in agreement that Brodeur played terribly.

 

There's a good portion out there. This forum is pretty good, but many Devils fans look at Brodeur and Cory's record and don't think there is a much of a difference.

 

Here, Msweet is the only that didn't acknowledge it. 

 

Edit: Guy above me helped me out pretty well.

Edited by devilsrule33

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There's a good portion out there. This forum is pretty good, but many Devils fans look at Brodeur and Cory's record and don't think there is a much of a difference.

 

Here, Msweet is the only that didn't acknowledge it. 

 

Oh yeah, when you start getting into Facebook groups or some other forums, it's downright looney. I've seen people suggesting trading Schneider and rolling with Marty and Kinkaid next year. Now THAT would be a special season.

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Quick question...is a "fanboy" the same thing as a "manchild?"  Just wondering...

 

Brodeur was not great this season, but he surely isn't the number 1 reason this team is going to miss the playoffs.  The fact that they can't score consistently and, as others have pointed out, have been shutout in over 12% of their games this season is the main problem here.  Should Cory have started more...sure.  I think most reasonable people would agree with that.  But too say that Marty "killed this season" and attempting to blame everything on him is ludicrous. 

Two years later, and you're still earning your signature award.  Bravo.  Most sensible post in this whole damn thread so far.

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There's a good portion out there. This forum is pretty good, but many Devils fans look at Brodeur and Cory's record and don't think there is a much of a difference.

 

Here, Msweet is the only that didn't acknowledge it. 

 

Edit: Guy above me helped me out pretty well.

As "guy above you", I'm not helping you out at all - where did I say he played amazing?  I never said he didn't play terribly, so I am definitely in agreement with most everyone else here -- the difference is that Cory didn't play amazing either, and if we had Brodeur in net for 50-60 games we're probably in the same damn spot we are now -- on the playoff bubble.  The point is that Brodeur didn't play great, but is hardly to blame for the season either, and having Schneider in net for 50, 60, or all 82 games wouldn't change a fvcking thing.

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As "guy above you", I'm not helping you out at all - where did I say he played amazing?  I never said he didn't play terribly, so I am definitely in agreement with most everyone else here -- the difference is that Cory didn't play amazing either, and if we had Brodeur in net for 50-60 games we're probably in the same damn spot we are now -- on the playoff bubble.  The point is that Brodeur didn't play great, but is hardly to blame for the season either, and having Schneider in net for 50, 60, or all 82 games wouldn't change a fvcking thing.

 

Yes it would.  If Schneider were in the net for 82 games, the Devils would've allowed 40 fewer goals.  They'd be in the playoffs for sure.

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As "guy above you", I'm not helping you out at all - where did I say he played amazing?  I never said he didn't play terribly, so I am definitely in agreement with most everyone else here -- the difference is that Cory didn't play amazing either, and if we had Brodeur in net for 50-60 games we're probably in the same damn spot we are now -- on the playoff bubble.  The point is that Brodeur didn't play great, but is hardly to blame for the season either, and having Schneider in net for 50, 60, or all 82 games wouldn't change a fvcking thing.

 

 

I don't know how you can point to last night's game as an example of Cory losing a game for the Devils.

 

He can't score goals.. and the only shot that beat him was a knuckler going 100+ that somehow picked a corner.

 

Marty's been terribad.  How can you blatantly ignore SV%?  It's not some BS statistic like +/-.  Cory starting 20 more games equates to, what, at least 10 less goals against?  Which probably translates to at least a couple points.

 

This is the mentality that's so prevalent on facebook and other social media outlets...it's scary.

Edited by Devilsfan118

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I don't know how you can point to last night's game as an example of Cory losing a game for the Devils.

 

He can't score goals.. and the only shot that beat him was a knuckler going 100+ that somehow picked a corner.

 

Marty's been terribad.  How can you blatantly ignore SV%?  It's not some BS statistic like +/-.  Cory starting 20 more games equates to, what, at least 10 less goals against?  Which probably translates to at least a couple points.

 

This is the mentality that's so prevalent on facebook and other social media outlets...it's scary.

 

90-95% of the blame for last night's game is on the 18 guys in red who weren't skating in a small crease.  The other 5-10% is on the guy in red stopping pucks between the crease.  The only thing I am trying to convey here is that, for 15-20 years Brodeur pitched shutout after shutout on his way to breaking the all time NHL record in career regular season shutouts.  He did so in times when we needed him to win games 1-0 because he played on a defensive-minded team that couldn't score goals.  We needed Cory to win one of those for us last night.  He didn't deliver.  So the whole "the season is Brodeur's fault" stuff should just stop.  It wasn't his fault.  If you want to say he was "terribad", ok, fine.  I'll say he wasn't good.  But to suggest that if he played less games that the season would be different and we would be in the playoffs is just garbage and like I said if you or anyone else wants to think otherwise, well then you're just set in your ways I guess and there's no sense trying to show you otherwise.   Hopefully the team we have now isn't the same team that suits up in 2014-15, but you put this same team out there next year and give Cory 65 starts, the result will be the same.  I wish/hope I'm wrong, but I won't be (we probably won't see it anyway because, hopefully, the team isn't even the same anyway, but you get the point)

Edited by NJDfan1711

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90-95% of the blame for last night's game is on the 18 guys in red who weren't skating in a small crease.  The other 5-10% is on the guy in red stopping pucks between the crease.

 

No, if the most basic fundamental principle of a team getting a win is to score more than your opponent, Schneider isn't even 1% "to blame for the loss" considering 0 goals were scored.

Edited by DJ Eco

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I also love how no one said a fvcking peep on the goal that Cory let up last night, when virtually the same thing, except 10x harder happened a week or so again to Brodeur during the game when he was pulled.

 

No one said a peep about the goal, because it was "the goal", it was only one goal let in through 60 minutes. If Cory does any better of a job than he did last night, regulation time still ends 0-0. 

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