Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
William D'Aquila

Confirmed : DeBoer is back

131 posts in this topic

I don't know why we're picking "Brunner or Ryder", like we have 4 stacked lines of great players throughout or something. There were a couple games we had Stephen Gionta on the 2nd line playing with Elias. Hell, who knows where Ryane Clowe stands going into next season... We were even using Gelinas a winger. This is the New Jersey Devils offensive depth chart, and it's reeeeeeally bad.

 

We absolutely need first line offensive talent so that the move of Ryder/Brunner to the 3rd line can be made, no-brainer. Until then, there's no use debating which one we could do without, because we need everyone we can, just to still be "not good enough" haha... I may be in the minority here but I think we still need both players going into next season.

 

Neither contract is really that bad; the problem is not Brunner or Ryder, it's that we needed them to be the 1st liners that they really aren't. We're not all crapping on Zubrus, are we? No. But why not? Out of the 3, he was the least value for money...

Edited by DJ Eco
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I definitely thought Brunner looked better than Ryder in the last stretch of games. I liked the Ryder signing because I thought he could be a younger, better Sykora, but god damn is he an AWFUL skater and the man can't stick handle around a fvcking cone, much less an NHL defenseman. He is the epitome of one dimensional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After the last month of the season Id take Brunner over Ryder a million times over. Even disregarding the contract; Ryder looked slow and lazy. He has a wicked shot, that's about it. Reminds me of a Rolston (who hits the glass less, I suppose).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

theyre both a lose lose situation just depends on the week and who's turn it is to suck more than the other. Unfourtunently were stuck one more year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know why we're picking "Brunner or Ryder", like we have 4 stacked lines of great players throughout or something. There were a couple games we had Stephen Gionta on the 2nd line playing with Elias. Hell, who knows where Ryane Clowe stands going into next season... We were even using Gelinas a winger. This is the New Jersey Devils offensive depth chart, and it's reeeeeeally bad.

We absolutely need first line offensive talent so that the move of Ryder/Brunner to the 3rd line can be made, no-brainer. Until then, there's no use debating which one we could do without, because we need everyone we can, just to still be "not good enough" haha... I may be in the minority here but I think we still need both players going into next season.

Neither contract is really that bad; the problem is not Brunner or Ryder, it's that we needed them to be the 1st liners that they really aren't. We're not all crapping on Zubrus, are we? No. But why not? Out of the 3, he was the least value for money...

How do you define value? Zubrus didn't have a great season but he isn't paid just to score goals, like Ryder and Brunner.

And to add to your other comment... You're wrong. They're getting top-6 minutes and barely playing better than AHLers. I would rather Reid Boucher than Michael Ryder playing on a top line any day of the week. Ryder's incredibly useless unless he has a top notch center able to gift him some open looks. He isn't a very talented player, and he doesn't belong anywhere on this team. You want him to play the third line? Good luck having him play in a checking role. The dude is slower than Cam freakin Janssen.

Edited by Martyisth3b3st

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you define value? Zubrus didn't have a great season but he isn't paid just to score goals, like Ryder and Brunner.

ive gotten on zubrus a little bit for his lack of goal contribution but he definently brings a lot more then these other 2 bums i would choose zubs over both of ryder and brunner any day of the week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was also healthy-scratched at times.  Not all of his missed games were due to injury.

 

I wonder is Brunner is one of those guys PDB basically tells Lou to trade if possible, that Brunner is simply a player that PDB can't work with.   

 

Re:  potential with Brunner, again, he's not a 22 or 23-year-old kid.  He's already 28.  And what still sticks out to me is that he couldn't find a job until just before the start of the regular season.  Guys do fall through the cracks from time to time, no question, and under the circumstances, I fully get why Lou rolled the dice on him, but his first season with the Devils almost seem the validate the teams that thought "Yeah, had a feeling he wouldn't do much.  We didn't miss out on anything."

 

The sooner we cut the guy the less painful it will be.

After the last month of the season Id take Brunner over Ryder a million times over. Even disregarding the contract; Ryder looked slow and lazy. He has a wicked shot, that's about it. Reminds me of a Rolston (who hits the glass less, I suppose).

 

But would you take Brunner? (see what I did there?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you define value? Zubrus didn't have a great season but he isn't paid just to score goals, like Ryder and Brunner.

And to add to your other comment... You're wrong. They're getting top-6 minutes and barely playing better than AHLers. I would rather Reid Boucher than Michael Ryder playing on a top line any day of the week. Ryder's incredibly useless unless he has a top notch center able to gift him some open looks. He isn't a very talented player, and he doesn't belong anywhere on this team. You want him to play the third line? Good luck having him play in a checking role. The dude is slower than Cam freakin Janssen.

 

I'm as big of a Boucher supporter as there is but Boucher's not better than Ryder yet, and he may never reach Ryder's best.  He doesn't need a top center to gift him looks, he just needs someone with speed on his line, someone who can get defenders out of position a little.  The Devils didn't have that for Ryder for most of the 2nd half of the year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm as big of a Boucher supporter as there is but Boucher's not better than Ryder yet, and he may never reach Ryder's best. He doesn't need a top center to gift him looks, he just needs someone with speed on his line, someone who can get defenders out of position a little. The Devils didn't have that for Ryder for most of the 2nd half of the year.

And the player creating the space with speed needs to be able to muck it up along the boards too.

Brunner and Ryder playing together in a lot of games hurt both players since both players weak board play was exacerbated by the other player weak board play. Nobody could ever recover a puck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ryder got his shots and a bunch of chances. he was plain missing the net on a lot of shots in the second half.  Id love to upgrade those positions but the truth is we cant. so they will be with us for one more year. and a bunch of us were all over zubrus. he hit a bad wall the 2nd half as well. finished out april well. and with thanks to jagr and travis he wound up in the plus territory for the year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ryder got his shots and a bunch of chances. he was plain missing the net on a lot of shots in the second half. Id love to upgrade those positions but the truth is we cant. so they will be with us for one more year. and a bunch of us were all over zubrus. he hit a bad wall the 2nd half as well. finished out april well. and with thanks to jagr and travis he wound up in the plus territory for the year

Because Jagr and Zajac had to carry him for a good portion. Zubrus has his qualities but he's got streaks where he struggles to fit in on a line. And Ryder can't miss on so many of his chances. He only does one thing well from a skill standpoint and if that isn't clicking he is a negative value player. Getting lots of shots isn't meaningless but when you need others to create those opportunities and get you space you need to create your own and Ryder isn't capable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have to give some credit to Zubrus, that Jagr line was at its best with him on the wing which was an important line for many wins. The problem is he needs to be in a bottom 6 role but that just shows how little depth we have. But he is still a reliable player who is great defensively and is good on the PK. Like I said before he needs to be a Madden Brylin type player in this stage in his career and not forced to play top 6 minutes.

And for the record many of Ryder's shots were BS shots from long range on the rush with no chance at all. The guy is not good for this system. He cannot hang on to the puck to save his life. Yea he's good for 20 goals which we need but he can't generate goals for others and just drags his teammates down, the man has to be catered in order to succeed which is the opposite of what the system preaches.

Edited by Zubie#8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have to give some credit to Zubrus, that Jagr line was at its best with him on the wing 

 

The WOWY numbers tell the opposite.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The WOWY numbers tell the opposite.  

 

Without looking at the numbers, my eyes would say the same. Jagr's offense might have dried up, but I think his scoring chances and the line was much stronger when Ruutu was there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without looking at the numbers, my eyes would say the same. Jagr's offense might have dried up, but I think his scoring chances and the line was much stronger when Ruutu was there.

 

I mean, it's not like he stunk it up with Zubrus. 57% Corsi with Zubrus, Jagr has 60% without him (633 and 577 mins of 5v5 ToI, respectively). Jagr is up to a 63% Corsi with Ruutu but that's 150 mins of play. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, it's not like he stunk it up with Zubrus. 57% Corsi with Zubrus, Jagr has 60% without him (633 and 577 mins of 5v5 ToI, respectively). Jagr is up to a 63% Corsi with Ruutu but that's 150 mins of play. 

I saw that move as a wash. imo, ruutu was supposed to score a few more goals but that didn't materialize either. very interchangeable players

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm as big of a Boucher supporter as there is but Boucher's not better than Ryder yet, and he may never reach Ryder's best.  He doesn't need a top center to gift him looks, he just needs someone with speed on his line, someone who can get defenders out of position a little.  The Devils didn't have that for Ryder for most of the 2nd half of the year.

 

Brunner and Ryder playing together in a lot of games hurt both players since both players weak board play was exacerbated by the other player weak board play. Nobody could ever recover a puck.

 

Ryder got his shots and a bunch of chances. he was plain missing the net on a lot of shots in the second half.  Id love to upgrade those positions but the truth is we cant. so they will be with us for one more year. and a bunch of us were all over zubrus. he hit a bad wall the 2nd half as well. finished out april well. and with thanks to jagr and travis he wound up in the plus territory for the year

 

I agree with all 3 of these comments. I'm of the opinion that we only have Ryder for his shot. And it's a damn good shot. Ideally, we needed him for more, but we all knew what he was about before he put on a Devils jersey; I didn't really expect anything more. And I'll go one over and say I think he'll only do better next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like we all complain about how inept our offense is, how inept "New Jersey Devils offense" is. But when a player doesn't play "New Jersey Devils hockey", he gets crucified. It's like we're all programmed to want more Giontas and Carters on the team no matter how much we crap on them.

 

That kinda explains why so many Devils fans still didn't like Kovalchuk by the second half of our 2011-2012 season; you still heard boos and jeers when he'd touch the puck during a 2-3 game goalless drought. I feel like we're almost brainwashed to want the Giontas and Salvadors as the face of our Devils. Anything else (Kovys and Zidlickys of the game) is too edgy and not "safe".

 

It's something I've noticed in a large group of our fanbase, where a lot of Devils fans just can't stand guys like Ryder, Zidlicky, or Kovalchuk (when he was here), yet these guys will be top 3, 4, or 5 in the points department at any given point in the season. We'll complain about how we don't score, we play too defensively, but then sh!t on Zidlicky's or Ryder's two-way game.... Doesn't make sense. If our team actually went out and got a talent like Evander Kane or Alexander Semin, he could score 30+ goals but our fanbase would still hate him.

Edited by DJ Eco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the Zid stuff I'm 100percent with you, it is probably a similar situation to what gelinas MIGHT turn out to be (that might is on the offensive upside he's not 100percent proven). Guys like that are important and there are tons of guys that hate it. Kovy as well, his offensive upside for us was huge. There is a point at which the offense they bring can mitigate their downsides, which isn't the case for the other type of player you are talking about.

 

With guys like ryder I can understand that constant hate, namely because its more about what standard of player this team is used to. It's not gionta type players that we are brainwashed into wanting, it's GOOD 2 way players. Ryder was not exactly lighting it up this year I think he had sub 20 goals. For that kind of production I would much rather bring in a guy that can do everything. Ryder can do 1 thing and he wasn't that spectacular at it. That's where I think a lot of the hate comes from. We as devils fans are just used to overall good players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the Zid stuff I'm 100percent with you, it is probably a similar situation to what gelinas MIGHT turn out to be (that might is on the offensive upside he's not 100percent proven). Guys like that are important and there are tons of guys that hate it. Kovy as well, his offensive upside for us was huge. There is a point at which the offense they bring can mitigate their downsides, which isn't the case for the other type of player you are talking about.

 

With guys like ryder I can understand that constant hate, namely because its more about what standard of player this team is used to. It's not gionta type players that we are brainwashed into wanting, it's GOOD 2 way players. Ryder was not exactly lighting it up this year I think he had sub 20 goals. For that kind of production I would much rather bring in a guy that can do everything. Ryder can do 1 thing and he wasn't that spectacular at it. That's where I think a lot of the hate comes from. We as devils fans are just used to overall good players.

 

I'm with you there, I agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like we all complain about how inept our offense is, how inept "New Jersey Devils offense" is. But when a player doesn't play "New Jersey Devils hockey", he gets crucified. It's like we're all programmed to want more Giontas and Carters on the team no matter how much we crap on them.

 

That kinda explains why so many Devils fans still didn't like Kovalchuk by the second half of our 2011-2012 season; you still heard boos and jeers when he'd touch the puck during a 2-3 game goalless drought. I feel like we're almost brainwashed to want the Giontas and Salvadors as the face of our Devils. Anything else (Kovys and Zidlickys of the game) is too edgy and not "safe".

 

It's something I've noticed in a large group of our fanbase, where a lot of Devils fans just can't stand guys like Ryder, Zidlicky, or Kovalchuk (when he was here), yet these guys will be top 3, 4, or 5 in the points department at any given point in the season. We'll complain about how we don't score, we play too defensively, but then sh!t on Zidlicky's or Ryder's two-way game.... Doesn't make sense. If our team actually went out and got a talent like Evander Kane or Alexander Semin, he could score 30+ goals but our fanbase would still hate him.

I completely agree with this and for devils fans the kool-aid is very very very strong in many many departments and lots of fans are brainwashed to like certain things and accept and defend them no matter what.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Idk how you can compare Ryder to Zid and Kovy.

When Zidlicky isn't scoring he helps on the power play, generates offense for others and is a play maker. When Kovy wasn't scoring he helped on the power play, PK, helped genrate offense for others and was a playmaker.

When Ryder isn't scoring he contributes NOTHING. And goal scoring is the one thing we pay him for so that's why he hurts the team and can't be compared to the other two. If he isn't scoring then he just drags down his linemates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Idk how you can compare Ryder to Zid and Kovy.

When Zidlicky isn't scoring he helps on the power play, generates offense for others and is a play maker. When Kovy wasn't scoring he helped on the power play, PK, helped genrate offense for others and was a playmaker.

When Ryder isn't scoring he contributes NOTHING. And goal scoring is the one thing we pay him for so that's why he hurts the team and can't be compared to the other two. If he isn't scoring then he just drags down his linemates.

 

I mentioned them together as part of the common thread that I've noticed that they've been crapped on by our fanbase pretty often (in the stands, on Facebook, and sometimes on here), despite all consistently being near the upper echelon of our points-leaders.

 

That Ryder was streaky and doesn't have a great two-way game should come as a surprise to no one. There were maybe 3 or 4 games during his goalless drought that I thought he was particularly awful. Otherwise, he was getting off shots (which is his job) and in some cases playing better than some of the games he was scoring in. I remember one particular game right in the heat of his drought, where he had 4 glorious shots on goal; one hit the crossbar, others where the goalie stood on his head, etc... while the team as a whole was held to 15 shots and we were shutout.

 

To put it all in perspective, Ryder's goals or points this year are close to or better than the following list of players:

 

Tomas Tatar, Carl Hagelin, Brian Gionta, Ryan Callahan, RJ Umberger, Mike Ribeiro, Mika Zibanejad, Jiri Tlusty, Milan Michalek, Mason Raymond, Tomas Plekanec, Joffrey Lupul, Alexander Semin, Cam Atkinson, Matt Read, etc., etc., etc...

 

All guys we'd drop our pants for Lou to get on our team. In many cases, some of the guys I listed are making 2, 3, even 4 million more than Ryder. I know you're gonna pick the odd 2 or 3 of that list and say "Oh, but they kill penalties too!" but my general point remains. People who expected more from the 33 year old Ryder had irrational expectations.

 

The larger issues and holes in our roster only exacerbates Ryder's negatives, but otherwise I continue to think he was a good signing. It's the additional signings we DIDN'T MAKE that make him look like a bad signing.

Edited by DJ Eco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0