Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
SMantzas

The 2014 NJ Devils Offseason Thread

947 posts in this topic

Gelinas is no PP QB. His shot is a rocket for sure, but he isn't the kind of player who is going to run the PP from the point, imo. You'll need an Elias type to distribute from the half boards and feed Gelinas the puck at the point. I'd send him in a trade only because he probably has the most value around the league due to his point total from last year. I think between Larsson and Merrill, they'll provide decent offense from the back end and I think they're more likely to be solid NHLers than Gelinas is. Gelinas to me could either be a top end PMD or could be nothing more than a hard shot that gets limited time 5v5 and is used mostly on the PP.

I disagree.  He may not have the passing ability of a PP QB, but you can't say he's no PP QB and then say he could be a PMD.  The PP QB has to have the skating ability to get the puck up ice quickly.  He has the skating ability to be that guy and the shot.  Gelinas will be an NHLer as long as he figures out the defensive side of the game.  He's a big body, will play physical, he's everything you want from a defenseman, but you know, without the solid, reliable defense.  Even if he can get to Zidlicky's level of awareness, he'll be fine.  Zidlicky has had a pretty long and pretty successful career.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO the bobby Ryan deal is a good comparable. Two good (although not top-flight) prospects and a first.

If henrique is even mentioned as a starting point in a potential trade for Kane I hangup. Honestly I probably wouldn't make that trade straight up.

You wouldn't trade Henrique for EKane straight up??  That's surprising.  EKane is a pure talent who has the near term potential of being a superstar.  He hits a lot.  Shoots a lot.  Is a fun player to watch.  Henrique is a potential 30 goal scorer, but he's nowhere near as dynamic or talented a player as EKane.  I think any discussion would indeed involve a player like Henrique.  I disagree that it would take Henrique + Ryder + Young D + 1st.  That's not realistic based on the fact Kane seems to want out and Jets need to do something.  I think Henrique + Ryder + 1st gets it done without a D for sure, and I think it's also possible Henrique + Ryder + high 2nd gets it done.  Granted, all with the caveat that it's highly unlikely NJ is even looking at him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not even looking at Kane. He has "potential" to be a solid player, but he doesn't stack up with Henrique's experience.  I just don't think Kane is as good as everyone thinks he is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At first I was offering up Henrique to get Kane, but now not so much. Today, I'd only do a package involving Larsson and a pick a veteran roster player.

 

I think the Devils would wait too until they can get a look at Severson next week as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trading Henrique any day as a center piece for Henrique. Just move past "character", and its a no-brainer. And while I absolutely loved Henrique's OT series winners, these are things that stay with GMs and fans for a little too long. Henrique had some huge goals, but I'm not thinking about those goals in the future and labeling him a big-time player.

 

Since Lou is obsessed with "character", I am not expecting any deal with these two players to ever happen.

Edited by devilsrule33

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trading Henrique any day as a center piece for Henrique. Just move pass character, and its a no-brainer. And while I absolutely loved Henrique's OT series winners, these are things that stay with GMs and fans for a little too long. Henrique had some huge goals, but I'm not thinking about those goals in the future and labeling him a big-time player.

 

Since Lou is obsessed with "character", I am not expecting any deal with these two players to ever happen.

 

You lose a very valuable two-way center if you lose Henrique. Besides that Kane has already suffered at least one concussion in his career.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im not even sure why its being discussed its not going to happen.. henrique is not going to be traded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im not even sure why its being discussed its not going to happen.. henrique is not going to be traded.

It's the offseason - have something better we should be taking about?

And never say never. Hockey is a crazy sport.

And for the record, I'd definitely okay with trading Gelinas. I don't know if people here remember just how bad he was defensively.. That shot is sexy, sure. But he could definitely become a MAB which would be unfortunate.

Edited by Devilsfan118

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People saying 'he could become an MAB' have never seen Bergeron play defense, I think.  Gelinas is horrible but is light years ahead of where that guy was.  I would only deal Gelinas in the right package, and Winnipeg does not want Larsson, they need centers, which we also do not have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the offseason - have something better we should be taking about?

And never say never. Hockey is a crazy sport.

And for the record, I'd definitely okay with trading Gelinas. I don't know if people here remember just how bad he was defensively.. That shot is sexy, sure. But he could definitely become a MAB which would be unfortunate.

its just not realistic and its not going to happen..it would be extremely stupid to trade away young top 6 talent just to replace it with something else.. this team needs young top 6 talent youre not going to trade away what you need to get back a slightly better player.. one that doesnt even have that much proven time under his belt at that. but anyways i would be for trading gelinas in a package if it returned something of real use up front.. he has a sick shot but he is not that strong in his own end..who knows what will end up happening but i doubt he gets traded as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really not ready to trade Gelinas in many packages, and definitely not because the Devils have Severson. Not sure he's going to translate into a big offensive players. Let's see how this AHL season goes.

 

As for Gelinas...rookie season of 29 points in 60 games on crummy offensive team, and I believe he played mostly on the 2nd PP.

 

His defense was atrocious. Probably as bad as I can remember any defenseman playing on the Devils. Definitely don't blame Pete for scratching him at all, but it just seemed like there was too much thinking being asked of him by the way he was jerked around."

 

"We are scratching you because your defense sucks, and you need to improve it"

"Be more physical because you are big and that's what big defenseman do"

"But our team desperately needs offense, so we will play you, but don't be stupid and be smart defensively"

"Just we REALLY need your offense..so create something"

"Okay, you suck defensively, but we need offense, so you'll be the 7th defenseman and get no shifts"

"Better do something offensively or there is no reason for you in the lineup....but don't fvck up"

 

He'll figure it out. I'm excited for him to QB the first PP, and put up some good numbers. Not expecting him to be remotely good defensively, but some improvements have to be there. Just don't try and hit anybody.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think he'll be on the first unit this year.  I don't think what he wants to do works with what guys like Jagr and Elias want to do.  I think the first unit'll be Jagr-Elias-Cammalleri-Zidlicky-?  where ? can really be anyone from Merrill to Zajac to Greene, and the 2nd unit will have Gelinas, some D, Henrique, Clowe, Ryder/Havlat.  This team has too many forwards.

 

Also I think Kurtis Foster was worse defensively, though he was better positionally, I suppose.  

Edited by Triumph

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Henrique, and a dman/pick is a loss of a trade for Kane IMO. We lose a valuable forward, potential pick and value on the back end for a a forward. Isn't worth it!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lot of people overrating Henrique here. 36 goals and 23 assists in the past two years (119 games). Sure it hasn't always been roses with linemates, but if you have him penciled in as a center....23 assists in 119 games! Then there is his incredible high shooting percentage (5th in the NHL last season).

 

If you have him penciled in as part of the core, the Devils don't have much of a core then. Obviously the ideal thing is to trade a defenseman for more offense, but no one on the NJ defense is getting you Kane. Of course this exercise is irrelevant since I don't think Kane is the player Lou goes after.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You wouldn't trade Henrique for EKane straight up?? That's surprising. EKane is a pure talent who has the near term potential of being a superstar. He hits a lot. Shoots a lot. Is a fun player to watch. Henrique is a potential 30 goal scorer, but he's nowhere near as dynamic or talented a player as EKane. I think any discussion would indeed involve a player like Henrique. I disagree that it would take Henrique + Ryder + Young D + 1st. That's not realistic based on the fact Kane seems to want out and Jets need to do something. I think Henrique + Ryder + 1st gets it done without a D for sure, and I think it's also possible Henrique + Ryder + high 2nd gets it done. Granted, all with the caveat that it's highly unlikely NJ is even looking at him.

it's close, I mean you say henrique is a potential 30 goal scorer yet Kane has only scored 30 goals and 50 points once. It's not as if he's already a bonafide star. Take out the lockout year and their stats over the past 3 years are very similar. I'm sure Kane will be the better player in the end but henrique is a top end pker. It's close straight up but I'm not adding a first rounder or a prospect.

Your right it's not happening, not because we're not looking at Kane but because henrique will never be traded. But it's also July and we all miss hockey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's close, I mean you say henrique is a potential 30 goal scorer yet Kane has only scored 30 goals and 50 points once. It's not as if he's already a bonafide star. Take out the lockout year and their stats over the past 3 years are very similar. I'm sure Kane will be the better player in the end but henrique is a top end pker. It's close straight up but I'm not adding a first rounder or a prospect.

Your right it's not happening, not because we're not looking at Kane but because henrique will never be traded. But it's also July and we all miss hockey.

 

This.  Lou isn't going to give up what is an established two-way center for a player like that.  I believe you can call him an established 2-way player, but he's definitely still has more to prove on the offensive side of the puck.  Lou lives to have homegrown players like that.  You don't get far in this league without having depth in the center position, and getting rid of Henrique does hurt that, regardless whether Henrique is a better wing than a center.  You lose Henrique, you're down to Zajac and Elias, and who after them can play in the top 6 AND win draws?  You're looking at Ruutu, Zubrus, Josefson.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"LeBron James announced he's going back to Cleveland on 1-year anniversary of Ilya Kovalchuk announcing he was going back to Russia. #notsame"

 

-TG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do not even think of trading this kid.

I'll like him a lot more when he figures out the defensive side of defense. This will be a big year for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8vXcJnugcc

 

Do not even think of trading this kid.

In that video, I find it funny how DeBoer thinks that Bernier is this gritty power forward that is really effective in front of the net.  I don't see it. If you just need a big body, that's what we pay Zubrus 3.1/year for.  Putting Bernier out there on a 4 on 4 in OT.  That's like putting Gionta out there because he has speed.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In that video, I find it funny how DeBoer thinks that Bernier is this gritty power forward that is really effective in front of the net.  I don't see it. If you just need a big body, that's what we pay Zubrus 3.1/year for.  Putting Bernier out there on a 4 on 4 in OT.  That's like putting Gionta out there because he has speed.  

 

I'll disagree. Bernier works with Gelinas' shot because unlike many of our top forwards, they don't want to get dirty. Bernier fully accepts that role and is willing to take the risk of getting a hard slapper to the face.

 

When Gelinas is on the ice, you still need a guy to screen the goalie. No matter how hard a player shoots from the point, a goalie will most likely stop it if they see it. Bernier is that guy.

 

It was a 4-on-3 PP, btw. That's the perfect time to go with Bernier.

Edited by devilsrule33

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll disagree. Bernier works with Gelinas' shot because unlike many of our top forwards, they don't want to get dirty. Bernier fully accepts that role and is willing to take the risk of getting a hard slapper to the face.

 

When Gelinas is on the ice, you still need a guy to screen the goalie. No matter how hard a player shoots from the point, a goalie will most likely stop it if they see it. Bernier is that guy.

 

It was a 4-on-3 PP, btw. That's the perfect time to go with Bernier.

Oh, whoops, wasn't watching Rags players as much as the Devils, definitely my bad. I don't know, I think Zubrus would be just as effective in front of the goalie, if not better and harder to displace and remove.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0