roomtemp

Do you think we could get Joe Thorton?

73 posts in this topic

For like a good deal? I mean he's not the best playoff performer but this team needs to make the damn playoffs before we can disappoint.

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I don't want Joe Thornton. Not at what it'd cost to get him, and he's proven to be... What's the word I'm looking for.. Invisible in big games?

He's a loser. For one reason or another, his generally talented teams have lost, with his lack of production a large part of it.

Now Marleau, maybe.

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Not interested. Chokes like his life depends on it in the playoffs every year.

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It's an interesting prospect, but I think if you make that trade straight up, Joe Thorton would probably go for a first round pick.  That's a big price to pay for someone his age as well.  Idk, since he's been a Shark, they've made it past the 2nd round like twice since '05.  There's a recurring choking pattern the Sharks have formed over the years.  I don't think I want their overaged vets, even Marleau...Joe Pavelski on other hand... :rolleyes:

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I think we could get Joe Thornton to do anything.

 

The slightest bit off pressure and the man caves in.

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I know some people (usually uber-sabes guys or advanced metrics types) don't believe in clutch and treat players as though they're emotionless Vulcans (they also often point out that anyone can suck over a small sample, even if they continually suck during small samples in big spots), but where I start to wonder about certain players is when they start to get the "choker/loser label", after two or three "meh" postseasons, does it start to get inside their heads?  Guys like Marleau and Thornton...once the series is 3-2, are they thinking, "sh!t, here we go again?" 

 

But let's face it...as much as those two were part of the series collapse, it sure as hell doesn't help when you allow 18 goals either.  Not like it's ALL on them.

 

Sabes-types will point to another terrific regular-season record (51-22-9 this season), and say the numbers point to them breaking through eventually, but at the same time, I think eventually you've got to say "These guys have had enough chances, maybe we need to change it up."  Since the 2005 lockout ended, this team is 8-9 in playoff series, has reached the Conference Finals twice, and been blown out in both of them.   

 

They should probably move either Marleau or Thornton. 

 

Marleau's numbers in crunch time are pretty damning of late:

 

2012 playoffs:  5 GP, 0 Pts

2013 playoffs:  final 4 GP of the playoffs:  0 Pts

2014 playoffs:  final 3 GP of the playoffs:  0 Pts

 

And Thornton:

 

2012 playoffs:  5 GP, 2 G, 3 A

2013 playoffs:  final 3 GP of the playoffs:  1 A

2014 playoffs:  final 4 GP of the playoffs:  0 Pts

 

I might roll the dice on either one, but I think you can't bring either one in if you're asking them to do the heavy lifting. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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I know some people (usually uber-sabes guys or advanced metrics types) don't believe in clutch and treat players as though they're emotionless Vulcans (they also often point out that anyone can suck over a small sample, even if they continually suck during small samples in big spots), but where I start to wonder about certain players is when they start to get the "choker/loser label", after two or three "meh" postseasons, does it start to get inside their heads?  Guys like Marleau and Thornton...once the series is 3-2, are they thinking, "sh!t, here we go again?" 

 

But let's face it...as much as those two were part of the series collapse, it sure as hell doesn't help when you allow 18 goals either.  Not like it's ALL on them.

 

Sabes-types will point to another terrific regular-season record (51-22-9 this season), and say the numbers point to them breaking through eventually, but at the same time, I think eventually you've got to say "These guys have had enough chances, maybe we need to change it up."  Since the 2005 lockout ended, this team is 8-9 in playoff series, has reached the Conference Finals twice, and been blown out in both of them.   

 

They should probably move either Marleau or Thornton. 

 

Marleau's numbers in crunch time are pretty damning of late:

 

2012 playoffs:  5 GP, 0 Pts

2013 playoffs:  final 4 GP of the playoffs:  0 Pts

2014 playoffs:  final 3 GP of the playoffs:  0 Pts

 

And Thornton:

 

2012 playoffs:  5 GP, 2 G, 3 A

2013 playoffs:  final 3 GP of the playoffs:  1 A

2014 playoffs:  final 4 GP of the playoffs:  0 Pts

 

I might roll the dice on either one, but I think you can't bring either one in if you're asking them to do the heavy lifting. 

 

Well thats a bit cherry picking stats if you put "final 3 games" and some 5 games and some final 4 lol youre just picking streaks that he didnt do anything. Not that its better but still, its cherry picking

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SD,

 

In the 2012 playoffs, they only played five games.  They were eliminated in five by the Blues in the first round.  No cherry-picking there...hell, I even listed Thornton's offensive numbers, which at quick glance are pretty good.

 

2013 and 2014 are pretty tell-tale.  When their team needed them to produce the most, with everything on the line, both players literally did next to nothing. 

 

And they both have a rep as guys who have a way of shrinking in big spots.  They didn't get that by accident. 

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Even if you wanted to go with the chokes/can't get it done in big moments, it be nice to have players that make the Devils better and help improve the team so that they can get to the playoffs to choke in.

 

I don't think anyone here should want the Devils to pass on a guy because of post-season struggles, when the Devils haven't been there 3 of the last 4 seasons.

Edited by devilsrule33

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I'm not saying the Devils shouldn't consider either player...I'm saying SJ should seriously consider moving one of them...they've had enough time in SJ, and I'm guessing a move elsewhere couldn't hurt at this point.  But SJ shouldn't just look at moving one of them...they need to address their goalie situation as well. 

 

BTW, Thornton is signed for three more years at a $6.75 average hit.  He will be 35 by the start of next season.

Marleau is also signed for three more years, at a $6,666,667 average hit.  He will also be 35 by the start of next season. 

 

I'm more put off by their ages and money they've got coming to them more than anything else.   

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That team is ripe for changes. I doubt they move Marleau or Thornton or Couture but wouldn't surprise me if they fire the HC and look to ship off some guys like Niemi, Pavelski even.

I think they will also let Boyle leave and try to buy out Havlat. Doubt they try to move Burns.

I also think Doug Wilson's days are numbered.

Edited by coldply123

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That team is ripe for changes. I doubt they move Marleau or Thornton or Couture but wouldn't surprise me if they fire the HC and look to ship off some guys like Niemi, Pavelski even.

I think they will also let Boyle leave and try to buy out Havlat. Doubt they try to move Burns.

I also think Doug Wilson's days are numbered.

 

Sharks can go a lot of ways to improve this team. I don't envy anyone trying to figure out how to do it. Firing Wilson would be a mistake. How often do you see a new GM being the missing piece or able to put together the final few puzzle pieces to get a team going. 

 

Wilson has successfully built a very good hockey team that has had success for over a decade. Big off-season ahead.

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It'll be interesting to see if Lou could make any sort of moves to snatch anyone away from San Jose. We do have Ryane Clowe, who's still friendly with the players and management there from what I've read. They have Larry Robinson on their bench. 

 

I wonder if that's enough for Lou to have a direct funnel to their GM to make a deal somehow.

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If we were to poach anyone off of San Jose, I'd want Couture or Hertl, and Id imagine neither of them will even be considered movable.

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No.  He just signed a hometown discount with Marleau.  Also:

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=702139

 

I don't rule anything out.  Guys get asked to waive the NMCs.  And eventually, one can't help but wonder when enough is enough.  They've been together for nine seasons now.  Is anyone going to be surprised when those two come up small yet again next season?  I get that you can change out other pieces, but after a failure as catastrophic as this one, and both of those guys getting older, as a GM I can't rule out anything that might help to break the cycle.  Not saying either of those players should be given away...just that neither one should be treated like an untradable cornerstone.   

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I don't rule anything out.  Guys get asked to waive the NMCs.  And eventually, one can't help but wonder when enough is enough.  They've been together for nine seasons now.  Is anyone going to be surprised when those two come up small yet again next season?  I get that you can change out other pieces, but after a failure as catastrophic as this one, and both of those guys getting older, as a GM I can't rule out anything that might help to break the cycle.  Not saying either of those players should be given away...just that neither one should be treated like an untradable cornerstone.   

 

Yeah but I don't see it.  They both signed just 5 months ago at below market value and the team sees Thornton's value.  There were whispers Marleau was going to be moved even with a NMC two years ago but that didn't happen when he was even more under fire than Thornton today.  I can see Doug Wilson deciding to mortgage the future and trade some draft picks maybe even Hertl to try and win in the next two years but I don't see either of those guys leaving.

 

The biggest move this offseason is probably going to be firing McLellan which I am ambivalent about. 

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Sharks can go a lot of ways to improve this team. I don't envy anyone trying to figure out how to do it. Firing Wilson would be a mistake. How often do you see a new GM being the missing piece or able to put together the final few puzzle pieces to get a team going.

Wilson has successfully built a very good hockey team that has had success for over a decade. Big off-season ahead.

Eventually you fall victim to the limits of your success. Wilson has built successful long haul regular season teams that get killed or collapse in the short series of playoffs. A fresh mind might be worth the risk. Wilson is definitely on a rope for next year even if he doesn't get the ax here.

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Yeah but I don't see it.  They both signed just 5 months ago at below market value and the team sees Thornton's value.  There were whispers Marleau was going to be moved even with a NMC two years ago but that didn't happen when he was even more under fire than Thornton today.  I can see Doug Wilson deciding to mortgage the future and trade some draft picks maybe even Hertl to try and win in the next two years but I don't see either of those guys leaving.

 

The biggest move this offseason is probably going to be firing McLellan which I am ambivalent about. 

 

I think Marleau and Thornton probably get another year, with pieces around them getting changed.  If they disappear during another first round exit again next season, I'm not sure how they both survive it...especially if both guys have good regular seasons, because that means someone would probably offer something pretty good to get one of them, especially if one of them is going to a team where he can be an excellent complementary player (think the Dallas and Detroit version of Brett Hull). 

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I don't think that's the way we will go.

i would like to see gaborik here over stastny and whoever else has been brought up around here lately.

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