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SterioDesign

Shero and Bylsma apparently fired

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According to WFAN just now, Bylsma has NOT been fired, but Shero has.

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People defend Lou because he has similar track records of a lot of these GM's, but some people just focus on Parise leaving even though Parise himself said there was a lot more to it.

Shero got hired in 2006. In that same time frame, Lou made the Zidlicky, Kovalchuk, and Schneider trades, managed to flip Janssen for pre-concussion Salvador, and re-signed Elias (twice), Oduya, Brodeur, Zidlicky, Langenbrunner, Green (twice) etc, without losing them for nothing and locked up Zajac and Henrique long term so he wouldn't risk losing them for nothing, and he also built a real solid group of d-men that should be real good for years.

There's not much difference there, give or take an inherited generational talent or two. That's why people defend Lou. It's not to say Lou is the best, it's to say that he's at least on par with most of the league when it comes to this stuff.

The great way to understand Lou's success is to keep in mind that something like 18 GMs (or some other very low number) in the history of the league have won at least one Cup. Lou has won three, did it basically from scratch, and without lucking into getting elite players by virtue of being a bad team that got the number 1 or 2 pick in the right draft year. (Shanahan is really the only one that arguably fits the bill, and I don't include Nieds, which was the result of a very wise trade.)

But by all means, some people should just continue to harp on Parise.

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Edited by Daniel

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The great way to understand Lou's success is to keep in mind that something like 18 GMs (or some other very low number) in the history of the league have won at least one Cup. Lou has won three, did it basically from scratch, and without lucking into getting elite players by virtue of being a bad team that got the number 1 or 2 pick in the right draft year. (Shanahan is really the only one that arguably fits the bill, and I don't include Nieds, which was the result of a very wise trade.)

But by all means, some people should just continue to harp on Parise.

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In fairness, there was some nice talent in the system when Lou first came aboard.  Lou did do a good job slowly but surely trading for pieces that wound up being helpful (and he recoved nicely from the Verbeek for Turgeon disaster by trading Turgeon for Claude Lemieux), especially when he found the right chef in Jacques Lemaire.  And of course, trading down to draft Brodeur (when everyone thought Trevor Kidd was going to be the next great goalie) and getting a first-rounder out of Toronto for Kurvers were absurdly good moves.  Not to mention trading a goalie he couldn't stand in Sean Burke and a decent defenseman in Eric Weinrich for Holik and a 2nd-rounder who became Jay Pandolfo. 

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People defend Lou because he has similar track records of a lot of these GM's, but some people just focus on Parise leaving even though Parise himself said there was a lot more to it.

 

Shero got hired in 2006. In that same time frame, Lou made the Zidlicky, Kovalchuk, and Schneider trades, managed to flip Janssen for pre-concussion Salvador, and re-signed Elias (twice), Oduya, Brodeur, Zidlicky, Langenbrunner, Green (twice) etc,  without losing them for nothing and locked up Zajac and Henrique long term so he wouldn't risk losing them for nothing, and he also built a real solid group of d-men that should be real good for years.

 

There's not much difference there, give or take an inherited generational talent or two. That's why people defend Lou. It's not to say Lou is the best, it's to say that he's at least on par with most of the league when it comes to this stuff.

 

Its not really about Parise leaving, the horrible roster management in the last few years, especially on defence. Our offensive prospects pool is terrible. We have no assets for trades. We have a good group of young dmen... but to see how many will pan out and yeah we can trade some but we dont have THAT much that we'll be thin again once all of the top ones are in the NHL. Lost 3 top guys for nothing. Missed the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. 

 

As usual im not saying he's terrible and he certainly did great things in the past but he certainly deserves some fair criticism now, we'd be sh!tting on that "recent resume" if it was any other" GM in the league

Edited by SterioDesign

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MAF wasnt the cause of their collapse. he made the saves he had to make and kept them in the games this year.

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The great way to understand Lou's success is to keep in mind that something like 18 GMs (or some other very low number) in the history of the league have won at least one Cup. Lou has won three, did it basically from scratch, and without lucking into getting elite players by virtue of being a bad team that got the number 1 or 2 pick in the right draft year. (Shanahan is really the only one that arguably fits the bill, and I don't include Nieds, which was the result of a very wise trade.)

But by all means, some people should just continue to harp on Parise.

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Lou deserves all the credit in the world for his work producing the 1995-2003 juggernaut and will always be considered one of the all time greats because of it.  That being said, he's been less than stellar for pretty much a decade now so there are a lot of us that think he might be at the same stage of his career as Brodeur.  There's still flashes of brilliance but overall, he's doing a pretty subpar job.  As someone mentioned, the Kovy, Zidlicky and Schneider trades were fantastic.  On the other hand, UFA signings have typically been brutal.  I also feel he's been slow to adapt to changes to the game both on the ice and with the salary cap.  Why are we still spending 7.5 million a season on dinosaur defensive defenseman like Salvador and Volchenkov again?  Considering that Larsson is still mostly potential buried in Albany, we don't have a single 1st round pick from the last decade making any type of contribution to the NHL club.  

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Its not really about Parise leaving, the horrible roster management in the last few years, especially on defence. Our offensive prospects pool is terrible. We have no assets for trades. We have a good group of young dmen... but to see how many will pan out and yeah we can trade some but we dont have THAT much that we'll be thin again once all of the top ones are in the NHL. Lost 3 top guys for nothing. Missed the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. 

 

As usual im not saying he's terrible and he certainly did great things in the past but he certainly deserves some fair criticism now, we'd be sh!tting on that "recent resume" if it was any other" GM in the league

 

These aren't problems that are exclusive to the Devils, though. Horrible roster management is a broad stroke. Our offensive prospect pool is what you'd expect for a team with late round picks every year plus a bust or two. We have defensemen and draft picks from 2015 on as assets for trade. Our prospects have just as much chance of working out as any other team's. We won't be thin when the good ones get to the NHL because there is a new draft every year to replenish. The "3 top guys for nothing" garbage is just that. And yes, they missed the playoffs 3 out of 4 years after making it 19 of 20 years. Downturns happen. It's happening in Detroit too. There is no such thing as sustained success. The point again is that every team in the league deals with this stuff. It's not just the Devils or Lou, it's everyone.

 

Why would we be sh!tting on the recent resume if it were another team? Most of us wouldn't even look twice if another GM had too many defensemen or underachieving forward prospects. If another team acquired Kovalchuk and Zidlicky for spare parts, who ended up being key pieces in a finals run, and then picked up Schneider for a draft pick, I think we'd consider that a decent recent resume. It's not amazing, but it's certainly not anything bad. He gets plenty of criticism, even from his defenders. Half the board was criticizing some of his moves or lack-there-of this year, especially when he didn't move a d-man at the deadline and the whole Marty situation. That sucked.

 

Overall, though, everyone knows he's much more good than bad. You take a shot at him every time another team does anything. The grass isn't always greener, so the next guy will probably disappoint you too. Since we all follow the Devils so closely, we see it warts and all. I'll guarantee that mostly every team has things like that first paragraph, but unless we are reading their version of TG Blogs or on their message boards, we don't notice it as much.

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Shero absolutely deserved to go. This could be an interesting offseason for the NHL depending on what the Pens new GM does and if the Sharks tear apart their roster like some speculate they may do.

Edited by thefiestygoat

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These aren't problems that are exclusive to the Devils, though. Horrible roster management is a broad stroke. Our offensive prospect pool is what you'd expect for a team with late round picks every year plus a bust or two. We have defensemen and draft picks from 2015 on as assets for trade. Our prospects have just as much chance of working out as any other team's. We won't be thin when the good ones get to the NHL because there is a new draft every year to replenish. The "3 top guys for nothing" garbage is just that. And yes, they missed the playoffs 3 out of 4 years after making it 19 of 20 years. Downturns happen. It's happening in Detroit too. There is no such thing as sustained success. The point again is that every team in the league deals with this stuff. It's not just the Devils or Lou, it's everyone.

 

Why would we be sh!tting on the recent resume if it were another team? Most of us wouldn't even look twice if another GM had too many defensemen or underachieving forward prospects. If another team acquired Kovalchuk and Zidlicky for spare parts, who ended up being key pieces in a finals run, and then picked up Schneider for a draft pick, I think we'd consider that a decent recent resume. It's not amazing, but it's certainly not anything bad. He gets plenty of criticism, even from his defenders. Half the board was criticizing some of his moves or lack-there-of this year, especially when he didn't move a d-man at the deadline and the whole Marty situation. That sucked.

 

Overall, though, everyone knows he's much more good than bad. You take a shot at him every time another team does anything. The grass isn't always greener, so the next guy will probably disappoint you too. Since we all follow the Devils so closely, we see it warts and all. I'll guarantee that mostly every team has things like that first paragraph, but unless we are reading their version of TG Blogs or on their message boards, we don't notice it as much.

 

It always goes back to the same thing...just about ANY GM who is on the job for this long is going to experience a downturn eventually...of course, most GMs don't get to stay on the job in one place for that long.  10 years for a GM is a long time. 

 

But yeah, SD seems to do a lot of "Well, look what HE did!  And look what HE did!"  And then it becomes about what Lou didn't do. 

 

Not sure how many GMs have been at their jobs for as long as Lou has been, and had their teams contending EVERY year of their run, but that seems to be the standard Lou's held to, which is a bit unfair..

 

Like I've said, with most of his moves I can understand what the intent was (including the ones that ultimately didn't work out), but like I've also said, if Gionta is brought in and Marty is re-signed, I'm going to find it really hard to defend either move.  I don't care if Gionta comes back cheap...enough with second tours of duty here. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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It always goes back to the same thing...just about ANY GM who is on the job for this long is going to experience a downturn eventually...of course, most GMs don't get to stay on the job in one place for that long.  10 years for a GM is a long time. 

 

But yeah, SD seems to do a lot of "Well, look what HE did!  And look what HE did!"  And then it becomes about what Lou didn't do. 

 

Not sure how many GMs have been at their jobs for as long as Lou has been, and had their teams contending EVERY year of their run, but that seems to be the standard Lou's held to, which is a bit unfair..

 

Like I've said, with most of his moves I can understand what the intent was (including the ones that ultimately didn't work out), but like I've also said, if Gionta is brought in and Marty is re-signed, I'm going to find it really hard to defend either move.  I don't care if Gionta comes back cheap...enough with second tours of duty here. 

 

That's the thing.  As some said here either earlier today or yesterday, signing these guys to 2nd tours of duty is just complately uninspired on Lou's part.  He has always done this but it seems in the last 5-8 years it has ramped up.  We have had Holik, Shanahan, Sullivan, Mogilny, Malakhov, Arnott, etc. walk through here and none really had any big impact on the team at all.  Now it's to the point where it bringing guys back like Gionta is predictible and seems almost a certainty.  Lou thought a little bit outside the box last year by brining in a slew of new guys, but I am wondering if their results outside of Jagr scared him enough to go back to his rehashing ways.  I think it has and at this point he can't help it.

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That's the thing.  As some said here either earlier today or yesterday, signing these guys to 2nd tours of duty is just complately uninspired on Lou's part.  He has always done this but it seems in the last 5-8 years it has ramped up.  We have had Holik, Shanahan, Sullivan, Mogilny, Malakhov, Arnott, etc. walk through here and none really had any big impact on the team at all.  Now it's to the point where it bringing guys back like Gionta is predictible and seems almost a certainty.  Lou thought a little bit outside the box last year by brining in a slew of new guys, but I am wondering if their results outside of Jagr scared him enough to go back to his rehashing ways.  I think it has and at this point he can't help it.

 

Rolston, Janssen...

 

Some of the Part Deuxs I could understand at the time (a lot of people supported some of those moves...I liked the Rolston signing), but I just feel like that well has been pumped dry. 

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It always goes back to the same thing...just about ANY GM who is on the job for this long is going to experience a downturn eventually...of course, most GMs don't get to stay on the job in one place for that long.  10 years for a GM is a long time. 

 

But yeah, SD seems to do a lot of "Well, look what HE did!  And look what HE did!"  And then it becomes about what Lou didn't do. 

 

Not sure how many GMs have been at their jobs for as long as Lou has been, and had their teams contending EVERY year of their run, but that seems to be the standard Lou's held to, which is a bit unfair..

 

Like I've said, with most of his moves I can understand what the intent was (including the ones that ultimately didn't work out), but like I've also said, if Gionta is brought in and Marty is re-signed, I'm going to find it really hard to defend either move.  I don't care if Gionta comes back cheap...enough with second tours of duty here. 

 

yeah cause you guys always ask me what i'd do differently and what i think he did wrong. Or you'll say that what im suggesting is absolutely not something that make sense or that anyone would do.

 

So when others around the league actually does it, why in the world wouldnt i be pointing it out or use it as an example? Come on

Edited by SterioDesign

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yeah cause you guys always ask me what i'd do differently and what i think he did wrong. Or you'll say that what im suggesting is absolutely not something that make sense or that anyone would do.

So when others around the league actually does it, why in the world wouldnt i be pointing it out or use it as an example? Come on

Because other team are in other situations. And then you get mad when we point out the differences, like Shero inheriting 2 of the best players in the league. Or that Anaheim signed perry and getzlaf after the new CBA made it easier to re-sign players.

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I'm tired of this losing 3 top players for nothing garbage.  The Devils lost Parise for nothing.  Kovalchuk was worth less than nothing, so they didn't lose anything there.  David Clarkson wasn't a top player.

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yeah cause you guys always ask me what i'd do differently and what i think he did wrong. Or you'll say that what im suggesting is absolutely not something that make sense or that anyone would do.

 

So when others around the league actually does it, why in the world wouldnt i be pointing it out or use it as an example? Come on

 

Well at least I'm seeing your MO now...it doesn't really matter who the GM of the Devils is, you'll find something to bitch about, because the grass will always be greener somewhere else.  You should really just latch onto the best team (or teams) every year and root for winners.

 

 

I'm tired of this losing 3 top players for nothing garbage.  The Devils lost Parise for nothing.  Kovalchuk was worth less than nothing, so they didn't lose anything there.  David Clarkson wasn't a top player.

 

So true and so accurate, especially in Clarkson's case.  Ask the Leafs if he's a top player. 

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5-0 now. Lmfao. Edit: wrong thread.

Edited by MadDog2020

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Well at least I'm seeing your MO now...it doesn't really matter who the GM of the Devils is, you'll find something to bitch about, because the grass will always be greener somewhere else.  You should really just latch onto the best team (or teams) every year and root for winners.

 

 

 

So true and so accurate, especially in Clarkson's case.  Ask the Leafs if he's a top player. 

There is something to be said for losing them all at the same time. A line of Parise-Clarkson-Kovalchuk is better than most 1st lines in the NHL. Not saying that would be a line or was ever a line, but you get the idea. Its three serious impact players to lose all at once. Whats so different between the team we have now and the team we had during our SCF run? Basically...those three players.

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Clarkson was on his way to becoming pre-30-goal scoring Clarkson.  He tailed off pretty significantly after a big start in 2013. 

 

Kovy's heart wasn't in NJ and the NHL anymore, and judging by his KHL year, he looks like he's declining.  I'll always believe he knew he wasn't up to the rigors of an 82-game NHL season anymore.  He found somewhere he could play a lot less games, (hopefully) take less physical abuse, and still make a lot of coin. 

 

Parise can clearly still contribute at a Parise-like level, but we all knew that he would in the immediate future.  Losing him stung the most, from a pure wish-we-had-him-right-this-second standpoint, but I really don't miss the other two so much. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Bottom line for shero is when you have the two best players in the world you need to do better than just two conference championships in seven years, most of that time having a fairly weak conference outside of boston.

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There is something to be said for losing them all at the same time. A line of Parise-Clarkson-Kovalchuk is better than most 1st lines in the NHL. Not saying that would be a line or was ever a line, but you get the idea. Its three serious impact players to lose all at once. Whats so different between the team we have now and the team we had during our SCF run? Basically...those three players.

 

In Goals/60 and points/60, Kovalchuk was ranked pretty low for his 3 full years here - basically had the stats of a 2nd liner in those categories, and it's not like he's some sort of Corsi wizard either.  Clarkson is ranked in the top 90 in goals/60 but of course his assists/60 ranked 320th out of 328 players who played 1250 5 on 5 minutes between 2010-11 and 2012-13.

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Apparently Pierre is a candidate for the Pittsburgh GM job. Lmfao.

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Apparently Pierre is a candidate for the Pittsburgh GM job. Lmfao.

Might not be a bad hire.

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Might not be a bad hire.

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At least we wouldn't have to listen to him on TV anymore.

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Pierre to the Penguins is a rare win-win-win.

 

1) He is off US TV

2) He probably screws up the Penguins organization

3) We get to enjoy all of it.

Edited by devilsrule33

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Nobody works harder than Pierre. He never takes a day off and gives us more input on what's going on than anyone else. Sure. He's annoying. But find me a better sideline reporter in any sport. He's universally hated because it's the in thing to do.

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