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congrats to the 2013-14 Champs, the Kings

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At least you can recognize this place would melt down considering this place did melt down when Brodeur got bumped by a Canes player when he was 2 feet out of his crease and the Canes scored 1 second later with 0.2 on the clock.

 

The puck over the glass call is just too tough a play even if they had instant replay to go to. I definitively think moving forward goalie interference should be reviewable. But even then, it wouldn't be perfect. But sometimes refs really botch these calls.

 

 

Puck over glass whatever. Stupid rule anyway.

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Bottom line: The queen has let in 8 goals in two games.  For someone that is regarded as something akin to the messiah by rags fans, that is not getting it done.  He's not the reason they lost the first two games but he's not cultivating a legend of being able to steal a game on the biggest stage.

 

He hasn't "stole" any games, but if you are asking any goalie in the world to steal any games against this Kings team, you are asking too much. The Kings threw 41 shots on Lundqvist in regulation of game 1, and he only let in 2 goals. That was an excellent excellent game...especially considering he made 20 saves on 20 shots in the 3rd. He deserved a better fate.

 

Last night, he was not as good. But perhaps you aren't giving Lundqvist enough credit, or don't want to or don't realize how good the Kings are and how the Rangers defense isn't excellent.

 

I'll use Brodeur as an example here to compare what you are asking/expecting from Lundqvist compared to another goalie in the Cup Finals. In the Stanley Cup win vs Dallas. Brodeur faced a combined 35 shots in the 1st two games of that series. 40 in game 3 and 4 combined. Only 41 shots in the triple OT game 5 and only 31 in double OT Cup winning game (18, 17, 23, 17, 41, 31). In the 2003 Finals, Brodeur faced 16 shots in game1 and 2 and only 1 game over 26 shots (33 in games 3 OT finish). Game 5-7 he faced 22, 23 and 24 shots. Lastly in the Finals win against the Wings, Marty faced 17, 18,  24 and 16 shots in the 4 wins.

Edited by devilsrule33

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He hasn't "stole" any games, but if you are asking any goalie in the world to steal any games against this Kings team, you are asking too much. The Kings threw 41 shots on Lundqvist in regulation of game 1, and he only let in 2 goals. That was an excellent excellent game...especially considering he made 20 saves on 20 shots in the 3rd. He deserved a better fate.

 

Last night, he was not as good. But perhaps you aren't giving Lundqvist enough credit, or don't want to or don't realize how good the Kings are and how the Rangers defense isn't excellent.

 

I'll use Brodeur as an example here to compare what you are asking/expecting from Lundqvist compared to another goalie in the Cup Finals. In the Stanley Cup win vs Dallas. Brodeur faced a combined 35 shots in the 1st two games of that series. 40 in game 3 and 4 combined. Only 41 shots in the triple OT game 5 and only 31 in double OT Cup winning game (18, 17, 23, 17, 41, 31). In the 2003 Finals, Brodeur faced 16 shots in game1 and 2 and only 1 game over 26 shots (33 in games 3 OT finish). Game 5-7 he faced 22, 23 and 24 shots. Lastly in the Finals win against the Wings, Marty faced 17, 18,  24 and 16 shots in the 4 wins.

Are you saying Brodeur isn't good because the cup teams defenses were good at shot prevention?  Maybe the Rangers defense should do their job. 

Edited by RizzMB30

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Are you saying Brodeur isn't good because the cup teams defenses were good at shot prevention?  Maybe the Rangers defense should do their job. 

 

No, this isn't what I am saying at all. Brodeur is great. He got the job done. But the Kings are beasts and the Rangers aren't throwing out multiple HOF on defense. Lundqvist after two games has been under fire to start this series unlike most goalies in Stanley Cup Finals history. Not expecting you to give Lundqvist a break or anyone here, but goalies have not been asked to do as much as Lundqvist to get a team a W. It's about realistic expectations.

Edited by devilsrule33
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DP, what that view is missing is that Dwight King was in the crease to begin with - yeah he gets pushed a little into Lundqvist, but not substantially - he puts himself inside the crease.  It was a pretty clear call, the refs just missed it.  Lundqvist wasn't going to be able to make the save regardless of King being actually pushed into him - where King was standing was impeding Lundqvist's ability to get the puck.

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Amazing how terrible Brad Richards has become.  Shows the high risk and folly with giving out big money longer terms contracts to guys already well over 30.

 

I don't see how they don't buy out Richards despite his buddy-buddy relationship with St. Louis.  Rangers fans might cry about the officials, but Richards was instrumental in not one but two of the Kings goals tonight.

 

And Lundqvist might complain about that goal, but for every good save or sequence he's coming up just as small in some key spots.  Goaltending as a whole has been pretty craptastic at times these playoffs.  Some big saves and a good game here or there (including Lundqvist), but no consistency in games or in series.  No goalie has really owned a series these playoffs.

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As I find myself cheering for the Kings this week, all I can say is Doughty is the best defenseman in the NHL. Period. His puck handling skills and decision making are both top notch.

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As I find myself cheering for the Kings this week, all I can say is Doughty is the best defenseman in the NHL. Period. His puck handling skills and decision making are both top notch.

Makes you think about what Scott Niedermayer could have done if the Devils would have let him when he was that age.

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Instead of bitching about bad calls, Rangers fans should be more pissed off about their team blowing two goal leads.

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Amazing how terrible Brad Richards has become.  Shows the high risk and folly with giving out big money longer terms contracts to guys already well over 30.

 

I don't see how they don't buy out Richards despite his buddy-buddy relationship with St. Louis.  Rangers fans might cry about the officials, but Richards was instrumental in not one but two of the Kings goals tonight.

 

And Lundqvist might complain about that goal, but for every good save or sequence he's coming up just as small in some key spots.  Goaltending as a whole has been pretty craptastic at times these playoffs.  Some big saves and a good game here or there (including Lundqvist), but no consistency in games or in series.  No goalie has really owned a series these playoffs.

 

Brad Richards was always bad on defense, now he just lacks the offense to go with it.  He can certainly be a 2 C somewhere (and hell, I'd take him on a 1 year 5M deal if NJ misses out of Stastny), it's just not on a team with heavy Cup aspirations.

 

It's still tough for the Rangers to buy out Richards because they don't have another player who can do what he does, and the free agent market, Stastny aside, is barren.  They'd have to trade for Spezza, Thornton, or Kesler, and they don't have 1st round picks in either of the next 2 drafts, making it really difficult on them - they'd have to give up at least one of Kreider and Hagelin, along with other good stuff, and they don't have that much good stuff that's tradeable.

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He hasn't "stole" any games, but if you are asking any goalie in the world to steal any games against this Kings team, you are asking too much. The Kings threw 41 shots on Lundqvist in regulation of game 1, and he only let in 2 goals. That was an excellent excellent game...especially considering he made 20 saves on 20 shots in the 3rd. He deserved a better fate.

 

Last night, he was not as good. But perhaps you aren't giving Lundqvist enough credit, or don't want to or don't realize how good the Kings are and how the Rangers defense isn't excellent.

 

I'll use Brodeur as an example here to compare what you are asking/expecting from Lundqvist compared to another goalie in the Cup Finals. In the Stanley Cup win vs Dallas. Brodeur faced a combined 35 shots in the 1st two games of that series. 40 in game 3 and 4 combined. Only 41 shots in the triple OT game 5 and only 31 in double OT Cup winning game (18, 17, 23, 17, 41, 31). In the 2003 Finals, Brodeur faced 16 shots in game1 and 2 and only 1 game over 26 shots (33 in games 3 OT finish). Game 5-7 he faced 22, 23 and 24 shots. Lastly in the Finals win against the Wings, Marty faced 17, 18,  24 and 16 shots in the 4 wins.

This is a good Kings team but we're not talking about Gretzky's oilers.  The Kings are a very good team and one of the best this year.  They deserve to be in the finals.  For the record, however, the Kings only scored 1 more goal in the regular season than the goal challenged Devils.  This is certainly a team that a goalie can steal a game against.  If you read my post thoroughly, you'd notice that I was pointing out that a legend can be born by stealing a game on this stage.  He hasn't so far.  That's the point. 

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Rangers are playing way better than I expected against these king. and its not only about their team speed although that's helping in many areas

 

the rags breakouts have been very good, they aren't getting fore-checked heavily, they are making thing difficult in the neutral zone for the kings, and the kings are having trouble with their zone entries. hits are about equal too, so the physical play hasn't hurt the rags either.  that was nash's better game, I actually thought he was going to win it. zuccarela's skating well, and there forth line is giving good mins

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Makes you think about what Scott Niedermayer could have done if the Devils would have let him when he was that age.

Funny you mention that because I was making the Niedermayer / Doughty comparison last night while watching the game. Lemaire reigned him in for sure. Neids was such a great defenseman, I'm not sure the Devils understood what they had in him because of the presence of Stevens and Daneyko.

Edited by slasher72

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This is a good Kings team but we're not talking about Gretzky's oilers. The Kings are a very good team and one of the best this year. They deserve to be in the finals. For the record, however, the Kings only scored 1 more goal in the regular season than the goal challenged Devils. This is certainly a team that a goalie can steal a game against. If you read my post thoroughly, you'd notice that I was pointing out that a legend can be born by stealing a game on this stage. He hasn't so far. That's the point.

How did we look so slow and physically challenged against this Kings team? Have they changed that much in 2 years? I was at Game 1 at the Rock during the Finals and even during the skatearound, the Kings seemed so damn quick on the ice. I remember thinking "oh sh*t, we better be on our game" even before the puck dropped.

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I want this series and season over with already....it's summer man

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DP, what that view is missing is that Dwight King was in the crease to begin with - yeah he gets pushed a little into Lundqvist, but not substantially - he puts himself inside the crease.  It was a pretty clear call, the refs just missed it.  Lundqvist wasn't going to be able to make the save regardless of King being actually pushed into him - where King was standing was impeding Lundqvist's ability to get the puck.

I disagree 

 

856074234.gif

King is set to skate to the front of the crease, I imagine to set a screen infront of lundqvist, maybe his foot will slide through the crease a little on his way but he won't interfere with henrik on his original course. It's McDonough that changes King's course and steers him into lundqvist.

This could have been waived off as incidental, or not. I think it's a coinflip, not as clear cut as every Rangers fan in mourning is making it out to seem.

Edit: ha, embedded the gif

Edited by squishyx

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This is a good Kings team but we're not talking about Gretzky's oilers.  The Kings are a very good team and one of the best this year.  They deserve to be in the finals.  For the record, however, the Kings only scored 1 more goal in the regular season than the goal challenged Devils.  This is certainly a team that a goalie can steal a game against.  If you read my post thoroughly, you'd notice that I was pointing out that a legend can be born by stealing a game on this stage.  He hasn't so far.  That's the point. 

 

Fair enough. The Kings are a weird team. This is the second time in the Finals where an offensively challenged team came alive and looked dominant in the playoffs. The Gaborik trade was big, but they seem to always underachieve in the scoring department. The emergence of Toffoli and Pearson have been game changers as well. When everything is clicking, this team has a lot of fire power.

 

Lundqvist has to be better if the Rangers want to get back in this series.

Edited by devilsrule33

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That delay of game rule needs to be changed. Could you imagine if that cost someone the game in overtime of game 7 for the cup? It's ridiculous.

They should just make the rule that if you throw the puck out of play in your own end that you can't change lines for the faceoff.

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Brad Richards was always bad on defense, now he just lacks the offense to go with it.  He can certainly be a 2 C somewhere (and hell, I'd take him on a 1 year 5M deal if NJ misses out of Stastny), it's just not on a team with heavy Cup aspirations.

 

It's still tough for the Rangers to buy out Richards because they don't have another player who can do what he does, and the free agent market, Stastny aside, is barren.  They'd have to trade for Spezza, Thornton, or Kesler, and they don't have 1st round picks in either of the next 2 drafts, making it really difficult on them - they'd have to give up at least one of Kreider and Hagelin, along with other good stuff, and they don't have that much good stuff that's tradeable.

 

Kreider and Hagelin are big reasons why they are even in the Cup finals.  I agree with the difficulty of buying him out.  Tough choice for the Rangers.  I don't think they can get Spezza, Thornton, Kesler without hurting themselves.  I think they will keep Brassard and hope for the best that Richards can be protected more, because he's getting really exposed.  I know Ranger fans think JT Miller is worth a billion dollars

 

Their defense has come through in crunch time and it's delivered more offense, but it's not a unit I really fear, especially if they lose Stralman as I don't see much in their pipeline the next few years aside from McIlrath but the jury is still out as to his potential  development (kinda of iffy).  Staal is an okay defenseman but much like Clowe, hee's one hit away from being done.  fMcDonagh is just as solid as they come, and now with more offensive contributions than ever before, despite fighting through an apparent injury these playoffs.  Girardi is what he is.  A tough grinding defenseman who is pretty limited to eating up defensive assignments in 5v5 and PK situations.  He's been picked on a lot more than I remember this season and these playoffs. 

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Fair enough. The Kings are a weird team. This is the second time in the Finals where an offensively challenged team came alive and looked dominant in the playoffs. The Gaborik trade was big, but they seem to always underachieve in the scoring department. The emergence of Toffoli and Pearson have been game changers as well. When everything is clicking, this team has a lot of fire power.

 

Lundqvist has to be better if the Rangers want to get back in this series.

 

They are much more balanced now and the offense is firing with all the scoring depth, solid role players.  Just well filled out roster.

 

However, their defensive corps is noticeably not as good as back in 2012 (despite the offensive potency from the back end that Voynov and Doughty provide) and Quick's sloppiness has exposed/exacerbated that.  The offense has had to bail them out numerous times this postseason.

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That delay of game rule needs to be changed. Could you imagine if that cost someone the game in overtime of game 7 for the cup? It's ridiculous.

They should just make the rule that if you throw the puck out of play in your own end that you can't change lines for the faceoff.

Yep, been saying that since they implemented this stupid rule.  Imagine overtime in Game 7 of the finals and a team is killing a penalty and a clearing attempt goes over the glass, now it's a five on three with everything on the line.  It would especially be a disaster if the first penalty that put them on the kill to begin with was a bad one.

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I disagree 

 

856074234.gif

King is set to skate to the front of the crease, I imagine to set a screen infront of lundqvist, maybe his foot will slide through the crease a little on his way but he won't interfere with henrik on his original course. It's McDonough that changes King's course and steers him into lundqvist.

This could have been waived off as incidental, or not. I think it's a coinflip, not as clear cut as every Rangers fan in mourning is making it out to seem.

Edit: ha, embedded the gif

 

He's clearly going through the crease though, you can't just run through the crease like that.  The explanation that Lundqvist was given was that the puck was already by him, which is not correct at all, so the refs got the call wrong even if they ultimately got the call right.  It's at least incidental contact, maybe a penalty.

Funny you mention that because I was making the Niedermayer / Doughty comparison last night while watching the game. Lemaire reigned him in for sure. Neids was such a great defenseman, I'm not sure the Devils understood what they had in him because of the presence of Stevens and Daneyko.

 

You guys do all realize that Niedermayer and Doughty basically have the same number of points in the regular season, right?  Like, take 4 years of Doughty and take any 4 years of Niedermayer under Lemaire and they look the same.

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You guys do all realize that Niedermayer and Doughty basically have the same number of points in the regular season, right?  Like, take 4 years of Doughty and take any 4 years of Niedermayer under Lemaire and they look the same.

 

Yup. I've seen a few articles that not only make the comparison of the players, but the comparison of the systems that both players were/are in that restricts the freedom that they could be playing with.

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Not that it doesn't happen to every team, but I just can't agree that the 'non-call' was the right call. My biggest issue with saying the refs did nothing wrong, is that I am 100% positive I would be finding out where the refs live if this happened to the Devils. As a matter of fact, it probably would have taken less. Dwight interferes at the exact point at which the puck beats Lundqvist. If that isn't goalie interference, then just get rid of the rule completely.

 

I'd be much quicker to agree with the argument that the refs made the right call "because the Rangers suck, and deserve to be screwed over while the rest of the league laughs at them."

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