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sundstrom

Trading one of the Young Defensemen

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I'd love to trade for Evander Kane or Nazem Kadri but I don't know if Winnipeg or Toronto would want any of NJ's young D.

I'd love to see Kane in NJ, but doubt it will happen.

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The only guy worth going after in FA is Stastny, and he's a center. The Devils need a scoring winger also, and the FA pickings are slim.

It seems like people say this every year.  I disagree, they may seem slim at times but there's more than a few good players to pick up, and wingers too.  There's Gaborik(no thanks however), Stasny, Callahan, Michalek, Cammalleri, Whitney, Vrbata, Jokinen, Kulemin, Bouchard, Moulson, Vanek, Roy, Iginla, Hemsky.  The issue is losing the current dead weight.  I'd add any of those guys if we had space.  I think Michalek and Cammalleri would be great fits here.  We've had some good luck with Czech players recently so I'd take a flyer on Vrbata as well. 

Edited by RizzMB30

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The guys you just named (aside from maybe Moulson and Vrbata) are a whole lotta meh. You don't get young (key word here: YOUNG) first line guys in free agency. You have to trade for high-end talent like that. And forget Vanek, he isn't coming here and he'll be ridiculously overpaid.

Edited by MadDog2020

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I was arguing against the idea that free agency was slim.  Michalek has been a first line player for virtually his whole career whether it was in SJ or OTT.  I'd want him before Vrbata.  I totally disagree that you HAVE to trade to acquire top end talent.  Yes, to acquire players younger than 27 or 28, yeah obviously you need to trade for players such as that, my main point is we don't have the assets to trade at this point.  We simply don't.

Edited by RizzMB30

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When I look at the 3 defensemen, I see Gelinas, who could be something really excellent.  It's not likely - Gelinas's play in the defensive zone this past year makes me think he will never quite figure it out.  The game will speed up and he'll get less panicky, but he will still be prone to mistakes.  But the Devils have not had something like Gelinas in a very, very long time - in fact, I can't think of the last time NJ had a D prospect like Gelinas, and that's because they've never had one, really.  Niedermayer scored from the back end but he was a different sort of player.  I look at some of what Gelinas does and I see Subban.  I don't want to give that possibility up, not for some 2nd line guy.  There's of course a strong chance that Gelinas will remain a 3rd pairing/fringe NHLer because he can't get his D game sorted out, and this post could look very foolish, but I just can't give that up.

 

Merrill's value got hurt by that Michigan incident - regardless, he came up and just didn't look out of place.  He's not going to score a ton but I think he could be a very effective D for the next decade - think Paul Martin.  And there's a slim chance that he becomes an elite defensive D with some offense to him.  I don't want to give that up especially because I think he'd be the least valuable of the 3 - I can't imagine GMs think particularly highly of him, but I do.

 

And then there's Larsson.  Him I would give up - I like him a lot and think he could be very good, but I imagine he has more value than the other two.  But he's still just 21 going on 22.  I'd want to get a 1st line forward back for him but I don't think that's possible.  I wouldn't give him up for any of the players sundstrom mentioned, or for players on that level.

 

I think waiting a year could be a good idea.  Severson will be more a known quantity.  Gelinas will demonstrate whether he can handle being an everyday D.  Larsson and Merrill should take steps forward or to the side.  NJ will have a better sense of what all these guys are, and they'll be able to make the right move with one of them.

 

Interesting, the only one I'd "give up on" now is Gelinas, but obviously that's because I don't see the same thing as you. I know you referenced one of his zone entries way back when, but I don't see the same Subban-esque tendencies as you. Usually I'm all for skill and high risk, but in this case I think the chance of you fooling some team* into thinking he's a sure-fire top tier offensive defenseman is greater than him figuring out the defensive zone. 

 

* is also why I'd be calling Toronto like crazy about every offensively talented player they have. 

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if toronto wants gelinas for kadri - you have to do that, i think.

 

Of course, but I think if Pittsburgh wants Gelinas for Crosby, you do that too, and both are equally likely.

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Of course, but I think if Pittsburgh wants Gelinas for Crosby, you do that too, and both are equally likely.

 

stop. this is not apples to apples here and you know it. toronto is down on kadri. the devils would have to give more sure. but would it shock you to have toronto in their infinite wisdom deal kadri for say, gelinas, matteau and ryder? perhaps they see subban for sure in gelinas where you see "maybe possibly".

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stop. this is not apples to apples here and you know it. toronto is down on kadri. the devils would have to give more sure. but would it shock you to have toronto in their infinite wisdom deal kadri for say, gelinas, matteau and ryder? perhaps they see subban for sure in gelinas where you see "maybe possibly".

 

Yes, that would shock me.  It would be absolutely shocking.  Toronto has enough offensive D right now with Franson, Gardiner, Rielly, and even Phaneuf.  They do not need another one.

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Yes, that would shock me.  It would be absolutely shocking.  Toronto has enough offensive D right now with Franson, Gardiner, Rielly, and even Phaneuf.  They do not need another one.

If Montreal can't get Subban signed up, I feel like they would be salivating over a French Canadian offensive minded defenseman such as Gelinas.  Markov is likely on the way out and losing Subban on defense would really hurt. 

I could see them as partners, as I would like to have a Gallagher or Galchenyuk, or a Pacieoretty.

Edited by RizzMB30

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The guys you just named (aside from maybe Moulson and Vrbata) are a whole lotta meh. You don't get young (key word here: YOUNG) first line guys in free agency. You have to trade for high-end talent like that. And forget Vanek, he isn't coming here and he'll be ridiculously overpaid.

 

That's a bunch of horsesh!t. There is still some good talent on that list. I wouldn't mind having one of Jokinen or Michalek on this team.

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That's a bunch of horsesh!t. There is still some good talent on that list. I wouldn't mind having one of Jokinen or Michalek on this team.

I could live with Michalek, but Jokinen? No thanks. The free agents that are available are underwhelming this year. I could see Lou adding one winger through FA and going after Stastny, but to get the type scorer of guy we need we'll need to make a trade. Edited by MadDog2020

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No to Michalek. Just no. Insert Michael Scott The Office GIF

 

Okay......I'm hearing protests, but no real arguments against bringing him in.  He's always been a point getter, he plays in both ends, he can play on the left or the right side, where we are seriously lacking.  He's paid a very modest price salary right now at 4.3 a year, and if he's willing to come here for 4.5 or 5 million a year for 1 or 2 years.  That would be a good pickup.  I also think that Vrbata would be a great choice to bring in, despite his age. 

 

I could live with Michalek, but Jokinen? No thanks. The free agents that are available are underwhelming this year. I could see Lou adding one winger through FA and going after Stastny, but to get the type scorer of guy we need we'll need to make a trade.

That's a scorer that can help fill out our top 6.  Boom, we waste no assets or resources by acquiring him and granted he's probably looking for a long-term deal.  I'd take Michalek over Ryder or Brunner any day. 

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I'd love to see Kane in NJ, but doubt it will happen.

 

Patrick Kane, yes.  Evander Kane I'll pass.

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Okay......I'm hearing protests, but no real arguments against bringing him in. He's always been a point getter, he plays in both ends, he can play on the left or the right side, where we are seriously lacking. He's paid a very modest price salary right now at 4.3 a year, and if he's willing to come here for 4.5 or 5 million a year for 1 or 2 years. That would be a good pickup. I also think that Vrbata would be a great choice to bring in, despite his age.

That's a scorer that can help fill out our top 6. Boom, we waste no assets or resources by acquiring him and granted he's probably looking for a long-term deal. I'd take Michalek over Ryder or Brunner any day.

I could very well be wrong, but I think Lou has something up his sleeve no one sees coming. Like the Schneider trade last year.

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Michalek is clearly entering the decline phase of his career and it's not like the before the decline phase were all that great either.  I think it's a pretty easy pass on him.

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Okay......I'm hearing protests, but no real arguments against bringing him in.  He's always been a point getter, he plays in both ends, he can play on the left or the right side, where we are seriously lacking.  He's paid a very modest price salary right now at 4.3 a year, and if he's willing to come here for 4.5 or 5 million a year for 1 or 2 years.  That would be a good pickup.  I also think that Vrbata would be a great choice to bring in, despite his age. 

 

That's a scorer that can help fill out our top 6.  Boom, we waste no assets or resources by acquiring him and granted he's probably looking for a long-term deal.  I'd take Michalek over Ryder or Brunner any day. 

 

He's had way too many surgeries. He gets great minutes playing shotgun with Spezza and still puts up sh!t numbers. He is supposed to be a pure goal scorer, yet only has 21 goals in his last 105 games. Michalek will be a bad signing for any team that gets him.

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I'm against Michalek for a few reasons:
- He will be 30 next year so you'd end up signing him for his decline years and paying a pretty price.
- His points per game rate has declined for 3 straight seasons.
- His zone starts over the past 3 years suggest he's relies on being put in a position to succeed (62.1, 60.8, 56.8).
- He doesn't seem to drive play all that much relative to his team with CF% Rel all around 0.
- He's also played with Spezza a lot for the past 3 seasons which inflated his numbers, just like his 16.5 SH% in 2011-12 helped him reach 35 goals when he's more of a 15-20 goal scorer (if that) at this point.

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Patrick Kane, yes.  Evander Kane I'll pass.

Evander Kane may have some attitude issues but there is no doubting his skill and results.

- Will turn 23 in August and is under contract thru 2017-18 with a $5.25M cap hit.

- Over the past 3 years, about average to above average CF% Rel.

- Played in all situations the past 2 years.

- Above the 75th percentile in points per game in every year of his career except his rookie year, hovered around the 90th percentile over his past 3 years.

- Either above or at the 90th percentile in goals per game over the past 3 years. Went above the 95th percentile in 2011-12 and just around it in 2012-13.

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Evander Kane may have some attitude issues but there is no doubting his skill and results.

- Will turn 23 in August and is under contract thru 2017-18 with a $5.25M cap hit.

- Over the past 3 years, about average to above average CF% Rel.

- Played in all situations the past 2 years.

- Above the 75th percentile in points per game in every year of his career except his rookie year, hovered around the 90th percentile over his past 3 years.

- Either above or at the 90th percentile in goals per game over the past 3 years. Went above the 95th percentile in 2011-12 and just around it in 2012-13.

 

who knows what kinds of issues he really has anyway. The Winnipeg media doesn't exactly seem "progressive" if you catch my drift. Or bright, they love Pavelec. Kane might just be getting railroaded like Subban was before he blew everyone out of the water (not that he's as good as Subban or ever will be)

Edited by DH26

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No to Michalek who is a proven two way player, but you're willing to bet the house on Evander Kane who may or may not have potential. I don't know what Kane brings, but if it's anything like what he's done in WPG then they can keep him.

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He's had way too many surgeries. He gets great minutes playing shotgun with Spezza and still puts up sh!t numbers. He is supposed to be a pure goal scorer, yet only has 21 goals in his last 105 games. Michalek will be a bad signing for any team that gets him.

 

Michalek isn't a pure goal scorer. He's a two way forward. If you want a pure goal scorer then you go after Jokinen who has put up solid numbers even when he was on subpar teams.

Michalek is clearly entering the decline phase of his career and it's not like the before the decline phase were all that great either.  I think it's a pretty easy pass on him.

 

What evidence do you have that points to a decline for Michalek. I don't see it.

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Michalek isn't a pure goal scorer. He's a two way forward. If you want a pure goal scorer then you go after Jokinen who has put up solid numbers even when he was on subpar teams.

 

What evidence do you have that points to a decline for Michalek. I don't see it.

 

Michalek's scored a combined 21 goals in his last 105 games and hasn't scored much besides the 35 goal season randomly in there and that was the only time he ever scored 30. And he's only scored over 20 once since 2010 and that was with an unsustainable shooting percentage

Edited by DH26

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