roomtemp

Let's start a pool of where Brodeur will end up

315 posts in this topic

You don't have to like it. At least their superstars test the market. Hockey has become too predictable. Almost every elite player signs extensions and never reaches UFA status. I kind of wish the cap allowed for star players to restructure deals that can help their teams out. Whether it be to clear room to re-sign key RFA's or clear space, it would make the offseason more interesting. Instead, we sit and watch GMs lose their minds overpaying B and C level talent.

The bolded.  I don't mind that at all because it means that you have to draft well and you have to be a winner in order to keep your homegrown players.  It's that kind of thing that keeps teams like the Rangers and Chicago from becoming the Miami Heat.  The reason deals can't be restructured is because GMs are suppose to be smart and not make long term deals that require the restructuring in the first place.  The league hated the long-term deals going around the league, and the Suter and Parise contracts were the last of them, thank god.  I agree with the rest of your post though.  The whole team-first thing.

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There is not a player in hockey whose free agency would be covered the way Lebron's was. Nobody in hockey is that well known and exposed by the media, advertising, etc.

People who aren't basketball fans know exactly who Lebron is. People who don't follow hockey have no clue who Patrick Kane is.

 

I bolded the second statement because it's 100 percent true. Hockey is not marketed the way basketball or the other major sports are. The more exposure, the better. In addition, basketball's stars have their own shoes. When you have a big corporation like Nike promoting worldwide, it's popularity is through the roof.

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The bolded.  I don't mind that at all because it means that you have to draft well and you have to be a winner in order to keep your homegrown players.  It's that kind of thing that keeps teams like the Rangers and Chicago from becoming the Miami Heat.  The reason deals can't be restructured is because GMs are suppose to be smart and not make long term deals that require the restructuring in the first place.  The league hated the long-term deals going around the league, and the Suter and Parise contracts were the last of them, thank god.  I agree with the rest of your post though.  The whole team-first thing.

 

The drafting part I have always agreed with. Development is much trickier than the other sports. Only special talents make it right away. Other stars take time and patience. That's why you can't just rely on drafting. If you look closely at Chicago, they draft better than anyone. Look at the supporting cast (Saad, Shaw, Bickell, Hjalmarsson, Kruger). It must be nice to have consecutive lottery picks (Toews and Kane) become stars. The Rangers have never benefited from that. They lucked out with Lundqvist (2000 Round 7). Most first round picks have been busts. Post-lockout, Staal fell to them at 12. I saw that the defenseman Ottawa picked (Brian Lee) retired. A Sens fan tweeted that they could've had Kopitar. Only recently have their first round picks (Kreider, Miller, Skjei) improved. They've done a better job in later rounds. Callahan was a fourth round and Dubinsky and Anisimov second round. Stepan second round. Hagelin sixth.

 

Adding to the Hawks, wait till Teravainen makes it. They also stole Hartman. The Kings drafted well too. Look at some of the kids who contributed. Pearson and Toffoli. Voynov and Muzzin behind Doughty. Martin Jones was an undrafted rookie free agent. Eventually, they'll turn him into something like they did with Bernier. In the cap, you have to manage your assets. Creative trades, etc.

 

If you want to argue the positive of teams locking up their stars, it shows commitment and loyalty from both sides. It's good business.

Back to the original topic. Maybe it would be best for Brodeur to retire. Sign one of those one-day contracts with the Devils and call it a career.

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The funny thing is, I don't really hate him, as I don't follow and don't care about basketball. I dunno, but something about the whole thing rubs me the wrong way, and it probably has everything to do with ESPN being a part of it. I remember being just as annoyed when ESPN tried to turn the Brett Favre retirement/unretirement fiasco into the biggest thing since Pearl Harbor. In that instance though, it was just kind of a pathetic sideshow.

This. I hate basketball and really don't watch the NBA, but by all accounts LeBron seems like a good dude that unfairly gets a bad rap. The problem is ESPN. That network is total dogsh!t nowadays outside of their 30 for 30 series.

Edited by Chuck the Duck

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Lebron is a good dude. But the way he handled it this year wasn't that good.

 

Compared to The Decision, he was saintly this year lol the only thing was the amount of time it took, but sometimes these things take time. I was very impressed with Lebron's SI thing and while I don't really care about the NBA all that much, hes the best player in the world and the attention is always going to be there.  The Decision was a disgusting ploy orchestrated by LeBron's people and the Great Satan, ESPN. He did it the right way this year. The reasoning he gave for leaving in 2010 and going back this year make perfect sense. I can't fault him at all for how he handled it. Keep it quiet until you're ready to say where you're going and then just announce it. I initially rolled my eyes when I heard he had an SI piece announcing it, but it was verbalized perfectly. I'm rooting for LeBron in Cleveland.

 

There's really no comparing Kovy or Brodeur with Lebron. While its arguable that Brodeur is the greatest of all time in his position, he's not anymore. He's a past his prime player that carries no real value if you bring him in. Lebron has been a free agent twice already and he's comparable to Michael Jordan in terms of talent and being a brand. He's still in his prime. Very few individuals in hockey have had the ability to get people to buy tickets just based on them being in the game. Kovalchuk was a very good player when hit FA, but hockey is not a sport about individuals the way basketball is. It's no surprise Cleveland sold out of season tickets within minutes of Lebron saying he was going back to Cleveland. The only individual in hockey right now who I think would garner the type of attention Lebron gets is Crosby and even there it would just be a fraction b/c basketball is much more popular.

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When i say that i mean, Bosh and Wade. They opted out because of the first intention of all resigning for him. And maybe Lebron decided after, to go to Cle, who knows. But all that didn't need to happen. Bosh was waiting on him, as well as Wade. If LBJ's intention at the beginning were to openly return to Cleveland, then Wade wouldn't even opt our or Bosh most apt.

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Back to the original topic. Maybe it would be best for Brodeur to retire. Sign one of those one-day contracts with the Devils and call it a career.

 

Is that even done in hockey?  I thought that was strictly an NFL thing.

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Is that even done in hockey?  I thought that was strictly an NFL thing.

 

I am sure it can be done anywhere. Roy Halladay did it with the Jays this off-season. It's only ceremonial, right?

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Am I wrong in thinking like Doug Weigjht or Paul Kariya did something like that also? Possibly made that up but I thought I remembered someone doing that.

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I am sure it can be done anywhere. Roy Halladay did it with the Jays this off-season. It's only ceremonial, right?

 

But why does he need it with the Devils if he never signed anywhere else? The point is you left for so many seasons to another team but you've always been associated with said team thus the 1 day contract.

 

I hate it because its just ceremonial nonsense. Retire by announcing it with the team does there need to be any more to that? Not like anyone is going to remember or care that you did

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That's the whole idea, it's a ceremony.  Otherwise it's just a guy showing up somewhere.  I don't know the protocol behind one-day contracts but it is certainly possible to do it in hockey even without a proviso in the CBA - just sign the guy and then mutually terminate his contract the next day.

 

As for Brodeur, it is clear all along that he saw the goalie market was flooded and his dream is to parachute into a Cup contender who has an injury with their starting goalie, steal the starting job away from whatever they're using, and then lead that team to a Cup.  Although maybe that's not his ultimate goal - the fact that he's no longer giving interviews suggests hurt pride.  I wonder if he would try to come back with a mediocre team and then try to leap frog from there to a good team at the deadline.  Doesn't seem likely.  I think there's a decent chance (~25%) he won't play again.

Edited by Triumph

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That's the whole idea, it's a ceremony.  Otherwise it's just a guy showing up somewhere.  I don't know the protocol behind one-day contracts but it is certainly possible to do it in hockey even without a proviso in the CBA - just sign the guy and then mutually terminate his contract the next day.

 

As for Brodeur, it is clear all along that he saw the goalie market was flooded and his dream is to parachute into a Cup contender who has an injury with their starting goalie, steal the starting job away from whatever they're using, and then lead that team to a Cup.  Although maybe that's not his ultimate goal - the fact that he's no longer giving interviews suggests hurt pride.  I wonder if he would try to come back with a mediocre team and then try to leap frog from there to a good team at the deadline.  Doesn't seem likely.  I think there's a decent chance (~25%) he won't play again.

 

I don't even know if he cares about another cup. I think he wants 11 more wins.

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I don't even know if he cares about another cup. I think he wants 11 more wins.

 

He's never mentioned the wins. I think he's just looking to prove he still has it, and wants to go out on his terms.

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He's never mentioned the wins. I think he's just looking to prove he still has it, and wants to go out on his terms.

 

He loves playing hockey. It's admirable. I don't think there are specific goalies other than playing and playing on a good team. Might he want to reach 700 wins, sure. But there is absolutely no way he is doing this to reach 700 wins as some people have been saying. That's ridiculous. He owns the wins record, and he owns it by a lot. I doubt 700 wins is remotely important to him.

 

He isn't chasing any records. This isn't a round number that has historical meaning like 3000 baseball hits or 500 goals. He just wants to do what he loves, god damn it. He's chasing that rush. 

Edited by devilsrule33

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He loves playing hockey. It's admirable. I don't think there are specific goalies other than playing and playing on a good team. Might he want to reach 700 wins, sure. But there is absolutely no way he is doing this to reach 700 wins as some people have been saying. That's ridiculous. He owns the wins record, and he owns it by a lot. I doubt 700 wins is remotely important to him.

 

He isn't chasing any records. This isn't a round number that has historical meaning like 3000 baseball hits or 500 goals. He just wants to do what he loves, god damn it. He's chasing that rush. 

 

At the same time if Brodeur had gotten to 700 wins, don't you think it is much more likely he would have hung them up after this past season?  I think so.

 

People can say he is doing this for the love of the game but just going by who he is and how he has always presented himself, these big number mean more to him than I think a lot of Devils fans would think.

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I disagree I feel like hitting 700 would be something he wants.

 

Sad thing is, unless he surprises the hell out of everyone (first by finding someone to sign him, and then by playing well), if he limps to 700, a fair number who saw him play will say, "Yeah, but he hung on too long."  It's the hanging on too long part that neither Roy or Hasek were guilty of...in Roy's case, people who look only at the numbers as time goes by will say "Why the hell did Roy retire?  He was still playing great!"

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Sad thing is, unless he surprises the hell out of everyone (first by finding someone to sign him, and then by playing well), if he limps to 700, a fair number who saw him play will say, "Yeah, but he hung on too long."  It's the hanging on too long part that neither Roy or Hasek were guilty of...in Roy's case, people who look only at the numbers as time goes by will say "Why the hell did Roy retire?  He was still playing great!"

 

Whats scarier is that there are fans out there who think Brodeur should be signed with the Devils just so he can get to 700.  I have seen some say he will get it in only 20-25 games.  They really, truly believe that.

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Sad thing is, if he limps to 700, a fair number who saw him play will say, "Yeah, but he hung on too long."  It's the hanging on too long part that neither Roy or Hasek were guilty of.

 

James Duthie basically suggested the same point you're making on one of his recent blogs. The longer Brodeur continues to play, the more he looks like a compiler. Is 700 REALLY worth that? :huh:  What will he do if it doesn't happen this upcoming season?? --will he come back for the 2015-16 season, just to get 2 more wins?

 

Win #1;  1991

Win #700;  2016

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The more he looks like a compiler?  The wins record is untouchable by any current starting goalie.  I mean, I don't think too highly of the wins record overall, but he's 140 over the nearest guy.  I'd be very surprised if anyone beat that record in my lifetime.

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I'm not sure how you reach the top of the mountain in wins and keep setting the bar higher and higher without being a 'compiler". Brodeur set the all-time wins record at 36.

 

You can make the case that from 620 on, he's hung around with his best days behind him, but lets see someone else pass Roy's record with some good hockey to spare. Unlikely.

 

But again, I have no clue why people think 700 is that important to him. He's never even brought up any milestones unless the media asked him about it. No way he is playing just for a number. He thinks he has good hockey left. I guess that's equally as nutty.

Edited by devilsrule33

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The more he looks like a compiler?  The wins record is untouchable by any current starting goalie.  I mean, I don't think too highly of the wins record overall, but he's 140 over the nearest guy.  I'd be very surprised if anyone beat that record in my lifetime.

 

Average age of retirement for an NHL player was 34-35 in 1977. In the 90's, few players played until 40 or beyond. If a player retired @ 37 or 38, it was considered a long career. (depending what age they started) Now.. players are playing well into their 40's.

1990 doesn't feel like 25 years ago, but it is. I can't predict what the average age of retirement will be in 2030, but I'd imagine the track-record(s) will continue to go up. Players are having longer careers as life-expectancy continues to go up. I'm not saying you'll definitely see a player break the wins record, but it's not impossible. Records were made to be broken.

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James Duthie basically suggested the same point you're making on one of his recent blogs. The longer Brodeur continues to play, the more he looks like a compiler. Is 700 REALLY worth that? :huh:  What will he do if it doesn't happen this upcoming season?? --will he come back for the 2015-16 season, just to get 2 more wins?

 

Win #1;  1991

Win #700;  2016

 

I won't ever think of Marty as a compiler...to me, compilers are guys who are pretty good, occasionally better than that, then hit some nice milestones basically from having played damned near forever.  Think the pitcher who has a lot of 14-11, 12-9 seasons, with a few 16-18 win seasons sprinkled in, and maybe a 20-win season, who by virtue of having started very young and being durable somehow finishes with 270-280 wins, even though he was never a guy who wowed.

 

Marty was a top goalie for a long time...I think Cujo when I think of a compiler-type.  Even with Marty's decline the last few seasons, most people will remember that he was one of the very best to play in his generation and one of the top goalies of all-time. 

 

As for Marty's record ever falling...so many things have to break right, starting with the team(s) you're on being good for almost your entire career, and your health rarely being a problem.  Just the regular-season games alone played by Marty is an insane achievement:  1259 and possibly counting.  Roy is second with 1029.  In the entire history of the league, you've got four more guys with 900+ starts (Sawchuk, Belfour, Cujo, and Hall).  It's so hard just to stay healthy enough to be able to even physically play for so long.  Marty was a complete freak in that way.  Look at the all-time list of games played and he's clearly the outlier:

 

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-goalies-all-time-games-played-leaders.html    

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I won't ever think of Marty as a compiler...to me, compilers are guys who are pretty good, occasionally better than that, then hit some nice milestones basically from having played damned near forever.  Think the pitcher who has a lot of 14-11, 12-9 seasons, with a few 16-18 win seasons sprinkled in, and maybe a 20-win season, who by virtue of having started very young and being durable somehow finishes with 270-280 wins, even though he was never a guy who wowed.

under baseball analogys i would compare marty to roger clemens

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