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MadDog2020

Pat Burns is a HOF'er

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Congrats big guy! Well deserved!

Edited by MadDog2020

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Well deserved honor. Wish he could've lived to see it

 

That said, Rob Blake is not a hall of famer

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They got Pat Burns right...a few years too late.

 

I don't get the group at all. Hasek absolutely. I get Mike Modano was a standout US hockey player, but he did not have a better career than Recchi. Lindros not getting in is a shame. The committee put Pavel Bure in two years. By not putting in Lindros, they continue to say that Bure was a better player. That's fvcking ridiculous.

 

Blake...seems a bit odd.

Edited by devilsrule33

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DR: Bobby Clarke was added to the selection committee this year. I'm sure he had his say on Lindros.

Edited by MadDog2020

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Bout damn time.

 

Really a shame they wouldn't bend the rules to get him in while he was still around.

 

Still a great honor for him and his family though.

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For the record, I agree with you guys- Blake isn't a HOF'er. Recchi should've been in this year.

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They got Pat Burns right...a few years too late.

 

I don't get the group at all. Hasek absolutely. I get Mike Modano was a standout US hockey player, but he did not have a better career than Recchi. Lindros not getting in is a shame. The committee put Pavel Bure in two years. By not putting in Lindros, they continue to say that Bure was a better player. That's fvcking ridiculous.

 

Blake...seems a bit odd.

 

Did Bure go in in his first year of eligibility? I don't remember and I'm not sure where to find that info, but I think the lack of games played was an issue for both of them.

 

Lindros is the second highest ranked point per game retired player not in the HOF, so I think his time will come eventually.

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They got Pat Burns right...a few years too late.

 

I don't get the group at all. Hasek absolutely. I get Mike Modano was a standout US hockey player, but he did not have a better career than Recchi. Lindros not getting in is a shame. The committee put Pavel Bure in two years. By not putting in Lindros, they continue to say that Bure was a better player. That's fvcking ridiculous.

 

Blake...seems a bit odd.

 

Modano is better than Recchi.  Who did Modano play with?  A past his prime Brett Hull and a gaggle of other solid players but no standouts.  Who did Recchi play with?  Lemieux or Francis, Lindros, Koivu, etc. - Recchi was a real good player and a deserving HOFer, but he played with a lot of tremendous supporting casts - Modano really didn't.

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They got Pat Burns right...a few years too late.

 

I don't get the group at all. Hasek absolutely. I get Mike Modano was a standout US hockey player, but he did not have a better career than Recchi. Lindros not getting in is a shame. The committee put Pavel Bure in two years. By not putting in Lindros, they are saying that Bure was a better player. That's fvcking ridiculous.

 

Blake...seems a bit odd.

 

Bure and Lindros were obviously very different players.  I wouldn't put either one in myself (and that's not to knock them), but I don't think you can put guys like Bure and Neely in and not Lindros.  I'm guessing Bure got in because he put up big fat goal totals five times (60, 60, 59, 58, and 51).  He's also third in goals-per-game average in the top 100 goal-scorers in history of the NHL at .623.  Took him six years to get in BTW. 

 

Lindros probably doesn't get in until voters take into account the number of years he played in the Dead Puck Era, and his Flyers numbers are pretty sick:  486 games, 290 goals, 369 assists, 659 points.  That equates to 49 goals and 62 assists per 82 games, and the guy was a wrecking ball during many of his Flyer years.  He was also a +215 in 760 career games.  One thing that can't be disputed is, when he was healthy and before the concussions, he was clearly a Hall-Of-Fame talent.  The big question is was he a Hall-Of-Fame talent long enough?  There's just a smidge of "could've been" with Lindros (it's too bad he had so many health issues), even though the numbers he did up were pretty damned terrific.         

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Modano had over 1,300 points. Its not even a question.

 

Modano is a HHOF for sure. It isn't a question. It just seemed that it was obvious that Modano was a lock all along when Recchi was rarely talked about. You can see some of these picks a mile away (not Blake). It be nice if there was some transparency from this secret little group of hockey experts that meet. Baseball has done that much at least.

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Bure and Lindros were obviously very different players.  I wouldn't put either one in myself (and that's not to knock them), but I don't think you can put guys like Bure and Neely in and not Lindros.  I'm guessing Bure got in because he put up big fat goal totals five times (60, 60, 59, 58, and 51).  He's also third in goals-per-game average in the top 100 goal-scorers in history of the NHL at .623.  Took him six years to get in BTW. 

 

Lindros probably doesn't get in until voters take into account the number of years he played in the Dead Puck Era, and his Flyers numbers are pretty sick:  486 games, 290 goals, 369 assists, 659 points.  That equates to 49 goals and 62 assists per 82 games, and the guy was a wrecking ball during many of his Flyer years.  He was also a +215 in 760 career games.  One thing that can't be disputed is, when he was healthy and before the concussions, he was clearly a Hall-Of-Fame talent.  The big question is was he a Hall-Of-Fame talent long enough?  There's just a smidge of "could've been" with Lindros (it's too bad he had so many health issues), even though the numbers he did up were pretty damned terrific.         

 

I posted it before, but I think that Lindros still ranked 19th all time in points per game while playing in the dead puck era AND having his concussion problems will push him in.

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Modano is a HHOF for sure. It isn't a question. It just seemed that it was obvious that Modano was a lock all along when Recchi was rarely talked about. You can see some of these picks a mile away (not Blake). It be nice if there was some transparency from this secret little group of hockey experts that meet. Baseball has done that much at least.

Clarke was on NHL Live last week and they were discussing how he joined the selection committee this year... when EJ Hradek asked him if he thought Lindros was a HOF'er, Clarke said 'that's not something I feel I should discuss publicly.' Do with that what you will...

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Congrats to Coach Burns!  A well deserved and overdue honor that he should have been afforded the opportunity to see before he died. 

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Modano is a HHOF for sure. It isn't a question. It just seemed that it was obvious that Modano was a lock all along when Recchi was rarely talked about. You can see some of these picks a mile away (not Blake). It be nice if there was some transparency from this secret little group of hockey experts that meet. Baseball has done that much at least.

 

Re:  Recchi, what may hurt him a little is that he was traded twice and the teams that traded him away were better for it:  the Penguins (Rick Tocchet fit that team better at that point), and the Flyers (they got back John LeClair, Eric Desjardins, and Gilbert Dionne).   

 

In a lot of ways, Recchi is the ultimate compiler who, like Tri says, benefitted from playing with some nice casts.  He was durable as hell (4th all-time with 1652 GP in the regular season), and that allowed him to finish with a lot of points (1533, 12th all-time).  When you look at his individual years though, there really aren't many that scream "Hall of Fame".  There's something to be said for being solidly good for a ridiculously long period of time, and he does have three rings...just don't know if the terrific compiler-guy should be a lock to get in. 

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Re:  Recchi, what may hurt him a little is that he was traded twice and the teams that traded him away were better for it:  the Penguins (Rick Tocchet fit that team better at that point), and the Flyers (they got back John LeClair, Eric Desjardins, and Gilbert Dionne).   

 

In a lot of ways, Recchi is the ultimate compiler who, like Tri says, benefitted from playing with some nice casts.  He was durable as hell (4th all-time with 1652 GP in the regular season), and that allowed him to finish with a lot of points (1533, 12th all-time).  When you look at his individual years though, there really aren't many that scream "Hall of Fame".  There's something to be said for being solidly good for a ridiculously long period of time, and he does have three rings...just don't know if the terrific compiler-guy should be a lock to get in. 

 

You are selling Recchi way too short. He played a ton of games, but I am not thinking compiler like Andreychuk. You could just as easily say the same thing about Modano in the sense that nothing stands out. Recchi did finish top 5 in scoring in 3 of his seasons. 

 

I'm not the captain of the Mark Recchi fan club or anything, but he seemed like a guy that could have gone in this year. No biggie.

Edited by devilsrule33

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You are selling Recchi way too short. He played a ton of games, but I am not thinking compiler like Andreychuk. You could just as easily say the same thing about Modano in the sense that nothing stands out. Recchi did finish top 5 in scoring in 3 of his seasons. 

 

I'm not the captain of the Mark Recchi fan club or anything, but he seemed like a guy that could have gone in this year. No biggie.

 

For Modano, nothing stands out because he never played with another HOF forward in his prime, besides Nieuwendyk, and that might've been only on the power play, if at all.  He also played in a system that stressed defense.  He also scored more of his goals at even strength versus the PP - 29% of modano's goals were PP goals, 35% for Recchi.  

 

Recchi was never a great goal scorer - 1 top 10 finish in goals, that being 9, and that being when he spent most of the year in Pittsburgh playing with Lemieux or Francis.  His 3 seasons where he is top 5 in scoring, he's either playing with Lindros or Lemieux/Francis.  He's a guy who if he hadn't played with those guys could've easily got the Andreychuk tag stuck on him (and indeed Andreychuk's best seasons are in Toronto with Gilmour and the rest are thoroughly good not great).

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I love all the selections, minus Blake really.  I guess he's a pretty big name and was an elite guy.  Hasek was my favorite goalie after Brodeur for a really long time.  Such a great tender and it's good that he got a chance to win those cups in Detroit.  I remember watching the 2002 Cup and that's when Pavel Datsyuk was a friggin rookie.  Datsyuk skated circles around probably half of the Hurricanes in that cup Final.  That was a great series and I was just a kid.  Mike Modano.  He is the real captain america.  I don't know how you can be an American and not be a fan of the guy.  He even left the game as a class act.  One of those guys who was loyal to his first team until the end.  His last night in Dallas was pretty emotional.  Forsberg is just Forsberg. 

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For Modano, nothing stands out because he never played with another HOF forward in his prime, besides Nieuwendyk, and that might've been only on the power play, if at all.  He also played in a system that stressed defense.  He also scored more of his goals at even strength versus the PP - 29% of modano's goals were PP goals, 35% for Recchi.  

 

Recchi was never a great goal scorer - 1 top 10 finish in goals, that being 9, and that being when he spent most of the year in Pittsburgh playing with Lemieux or Francis.  His 3 seasons where he is top 5 in scoring, he's either playing with Lindros or Lemieux/Francis.  He's a guy who if he hadn't played with those guys could've easily got the Andreychuk tag stuck on him (and indeed Andreychuk's best seasons are in Toronto with Gilmour and the rest are thoroughly good not great).

 

You are right. I did look back at all of Modano's teams, and it is amazing what he did with very little help.

 

It didn't sway the HHOF voters, but Recchi's end to his career was fantastic. A great deadline pickup by the Canes with a good playoff performance and a few solid years with Boston. He was a really nice player for the Bruins Cup team at 42 no less. Also, 99-00 was a really great year without Lindros for a nice chunk.

 

Having said all that, I may have been too strong in my first post about Recchi over Modano. Thing is Recchi has everything the committee usually eats up, so who the fvck knows.

 

I really hate the entire process. A guy who has a really strong opinion on one player can sway an entire room either way. If you don't have anyone in their fighting for you, you might be in trouble. Do we have any doubt that Pat Quinn wasn't making his best case to everyone for Bure a few years ago?

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For Modano, nothing stands out because he never played with another HOF forward in his prime, besides Nieuwendyk, and that might've been only on the power play, if at all.  He also played in a system that stressed defense.  He also scored more of his goals at even strength versus the PP - 29% of modano's goals were PP goals, 35% for Recchi.  

 

Recchi was never a great goal scorer - 1 top 10 finish in goals, that being 9, and that being when he spent most of the year in Pittsburgh playing with Lemieux or Francis.  His 3 seasons where he is top 5 in scoring, he's either playing with Lindros or Lemieux/Francis.  He's a guy who if he hadn't played with those guys could've easily got the Andreychuk tag stuck on him (and indeed Andreychuk's best seasons are in Toronto with Gilmour and the rest are thoroughly good not great).

 

re:  Andreychuk, I posted this a long time ago, but prior to his offense declining, he was about a point-per-game player through his first 1083 GP (503 G, 558 A, 1061 Pts, +56).  His numbers at that point were very similar to Joey Mullen's career numbers (1062 GP, 502 G, 561 A, 1063 Pts, +163), who got in pretty quickly (in 2000, last played in 1997)...of course, Mullen won three Cups.  Andreychuk's overall point-per-game average clearly took a hit from '97-'98 on (he was also a -66 in that time frame), which seems to be hurting his case. 

 

re:  Modano, yeah, you pretty much summed it up.  Same reasons why Elias' numbers aren't as awe-inspiring as they could've been (but he'll still wind up with 400 G and 600 A).

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