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caron14

Cammalleri - 5 years at $5M

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You may have constructed your post as fact but it's actually conjecture and fluff (the how many games Cory takes from Marty part. You can believe that if you'd like but Marty isn't here, that should tell you a lot.

 

It's very simple.  Brodeur started 9 times in March.  NINE TIMES.  Yes, that's said in the voice of Principal Rooney from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.  

 

And you'll say oh sure but Schneider was struggling and blah blah blah - did this EVER happen with Martin Brodeur between the years of 1999 and 2010?  Did Martin Brodeur's backup ever start NINE GAMES IN MARCH down the stretch because Brodeur was struggling?  And indeed, Brodeur has had his bad months.  So this idea that the Devils were suddenly going to just throw Brodeur into the Yann Danis role if he came back is ludicrous.  Certainly it wouldn't be an even split, but Brodeur is looking for more games than your average backup, he's said so in all his interviews about how much playing time he wants.  And Marty isn't here because HE doesn't want to be here, simple as that.  If he wanted to be back, he would be, and he'd probably start 25 games and steal the #1 goalie spot from Schneider for a time and we'd have a lot of talk from Marty about how he just wants to play and that's what he's here for and he doesn't look at save percentage and Cory's a great guy and it's a shame that both guys can't play goal but for now he's getting the starts and he plays better with more starts.

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It's very simple.  Brodeur started 9 times in March.  NINE TIMES.  Yes, that's said in the voice of Principal Rooney from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.  

 

I appreciate your passion on the matter but what does telling me how many times Marty started last March have to do with anything? The team - especially to retain Cory's services - was clearly making him the full-time starter no matter what. Thus, Marty walked.  So back to my original point, we didn't get X amount of goals better because we didn't resign Brodeur because we didn't sign a legit backup. You could say "we got 20 goals better because Cory will start full time this year" - that is fair. I just pointed out that it's not right to say that NO matter which backup replaces Marty, we would be better if Marty is not the backup. That's not true. All games played being equal, we are not any better at the backup position. It's a simple point really, not pro-Marty or anti.

 

 

 

A. And you'll say oh sure but Schneider was struggling and blah blah blah - did this EVER happen with Martin Brodeur between the years of 1999 and 2010?  Did Martin Brodeur's backup ever start NINE GAMES IN MARCH down the stretch because Brodeur was struggling?  And indeed, Brodeur has had his bad months. 

 

B. So this idea that the Devils were suddenly going to just throw Brodeur into the Yann Danis role if he came back is ludicrous.  Certainly it wouldn't be an even split, but Brodeur is looking for more games than your average backup, he's said so in all his interviews about how much playing time he wants.  And Marty isn't here because HE doesn't want to be here, simple as that. 

 

C. If he wanted to be back, he would be, and he'd probably start 25 games and steal the #1 goalie spot from Schneider for a time and we'd have a lot of talk from Marty about how he just wants to play and that's what he's here for and he doesn't look at save percentage and Cory's a great guy and it's a shame that both guys can't play goal but for now he's getting the starts and he plays better with more starts.

 

A. No, I am not saying any of that. Have I argued such things before? Yes, kind of - but that is irrelevant to the argument I made in this thread.

 

B. Well, that's kind of the point isn't it? Marty wasn't going to get what he wants in NJ and so he walked. Cory is the 100% starter.

 

C. I really don't think that's true but we can agree to disagree. As we know, Marty certainly doesn't think he is going to steal it from Cory or he probably would be back. You've made a bit of a contradiction here. Again however, we can disagree on the basic point. I am not sure why you are so angry at him though?

 

I am starting to see that the responses here are not about what I posted, but instead a chance for ya'll to rage at Marty. Be my guest, have at it. It's beside the point though.

Edited by Neb00rs

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Isn't this a thread about Mike Cammalleri?

 

everything begins with M means Marty

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You could say "we got 20 goals better because Cory will start full time this year" - that is fair.

That was what I was saying. I said it sarcastically and didn't add to my statement as I assumed it was implied.

Cory getting 20 starts that Marty or any other backup won't is less goals scored against the devils.

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Cory getting 20 starts that Marty or any other backup won't is less goals scored against the devils.

 

 

I agree with this then. I apologize, I did not register your sarcasm. JMI I don't think was sarcastic though.

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I agree with this then. I apologize, I did not register your sarcasm. JMI I don't think was sarcastic though.

 

MacIsaac made a one line post whose meaning I'm sure is the same as sundstrom's and mine and whose meaning you have finally sussed out in your reply to me -  "You could say "we got 20 goals better because Cory will start full time this year" - that is fair."  That's all Jason was trying to say.  

 

I also made no contradiction.  When I talk about a #1 goalie, I'm not talking about one guy getting 45 games and the other one gets 37.  I am talking about that Schneider starts, without question, all non back to back games (or some back to backs and rests against some weaker opponents).  A guy who gets those games almost regardless of how poorly he is doing.  With Brodeur on the team, Schneider would never be in that position.

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I didn't think my point was that difficult to understand. Schneider had a down year in terms of sv% so a rebound wouldn't surprise me either. I fully expect him to play 65 games this year at .925. NJ would have to be pretty bad not to make the playoffs at that ratio.

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MacIsaac made a one line post whose meaning I'm sure is the same as sundstrom's and mine and whose meaning you have finally sussed out in your reply to me -  "You could say "we got 20 goals better because Cory will start full time this year" - that is fair."  That's all Jason was trying to say.  

 

I also made no contradiction.  When I talk about a #1 goalie, I'm not talking about one guy getting 45 games and the other one gets 37.  I am talking about that Schneider starts, without question, all non back to back games (or some back to backs and rests against some weaker opponents).  A guy who gets those games almost regardless of how poorly he is doing.  With Brodeur on the team, Schneider would never be in that position.

 

To your first point, that's not how I took Jason's post and that shouldn't be such a crime. If anything a vague post leaves room for inference. I wasn't being provocative. 

 

You did contradict yourself though. You say Marty left on his own accord because he wants to playing time but you also said that if he was back here he might end up fighting for the starting job. 

I didn't think my point was that difficult to understand. Schneider had a down year in terms of sv% so a rebound wouldn't surprise me either. I fully expect him to play 65 games this year at .925. NJ would have to be pretty bad not to make the playoffs at that ratio.

 

The point is we DID NOT get 15 goals better by just not signing Brodeur. We could sign Marty, and as long as Cory still starts 65-70 games, we would most likely allow the same or less team goals than with another below average back up.

Edited by Neb00rs

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To your first point, that's not how I took Jason's post and that shouldn't be such a crime. If anything a vague post leaves room for inference. I wasn't being provocative.

 

It's been something that has been discussed to death on the forum.  How about try Occam's Razor next time, huh?  Was Jason saying that Kinkaid and/or Clemmensen are amazing, or was he saying that using Schneider more will result in fewer goals against?

 

 

You did contradict yourself though. You say Marty left on his own accord because he wants to playing time but you also said that if he was back here he might end up fighting for the starting job.

 

You are so fvcking thick.  

 

1:  Brodeur thinks he can still start in the NHL, this much is clear.  Now he's also said that he might be willing to become a backup for a Cup team, but almost all of his statements have included 25 games as a bare minimum.  That's more than a lot of backup goalies play.

 

2:  Brodeur may end up with 25 games here, which would include consecutive games not due to injury, which is more than most backup goalies play.  The Devils will not promise him games (and neither would any sane NHL franchise, which is probably why he is still waiting for a contract), but he could very easily end with them anyway.  Again, nine games.  Brodeur recognizes that the Devils have a starting goalie and that guy is Cory Schneider and that he is not going to usurp him long-term.  He's not going to get 35 games here again without an injury.

 

 

The point is we DID NOT get 15 goals better by just not signing Brodeur. We could sign Marty, and as long as Cory still starts 65-70 games, we would most likely allow the same or less team goals than with another below average back up.

 

Yes, we did.  If you think Brodeur plays 18 games this year if he's healthy, you're nuts - he would go mad with media frenzy after sitting for most of a month.  He's not signing up for that.  Nine games.  

Edited by Triumph

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It's been something that has been discussed to death on the forum.  How about try Occam's Razor next time, huh?  Was Jason saying that Kinkaid and/or Clemmensen are amazing, or was he saying that using Schneider more will result in fewer goals against?

 

I'm sorry I didn't infer what you did. To me, provided the quote JMI gave, the inference with the fewest assumptions is that the team got better by 15 goals no matter what as soon as we didn't sign Marty. Anyway, I prefer to use scientific strategy when analyzing a post. Thus, the total extant information provided by JMI + statistical information we have for the goalies on our roster = my inference. You are free to infer differently; as Ockham writes, "Circa quaesitum sunt diversae et adversae sententiae." But enough of that.

 

 

 

You are so fvcking thick. 

1:  Brodeur thinks he can still start in the NHL, this much is clear.  Now he's also said that he might be willing to become a backup for a Cup team, but almost all of his statements have included 25 games as a bare minimum.  That's more than a lot of backup goalies play.

 

Personal insult aside (you don't usually resort to that so I will ignore it), you're right, it does seem that Marty wants a lot of playing time and much more than he deserves - I don't see where you think I disagreed with that. And it is clear that he wasn't going to get that here. Or else he'd be here. 

 

 

 

2:  Brodeur may end up with 25 games here, which would include consecutive games not due to injury, which is more than most backup goalies play.  The Devils will not promise him games (and neither would any sane NHL franchise, which is probably why he is still waiting for a contract), but he could very easily end with them anyway.  Again, nine games.  Brodeur recognizes that the Devils have a starting goalie and that guy is Cory Schneider and that he is not going to usurp him long-term.  He's not going to get 35 games here again without an injury.

 

Again, is he leaving because he is not going to start games here, or should he have stayed because he would get games? Either ways, this is all a pretty big assumption by you, especially with all signs pointing to Lou and Pete moving 100% to Cory this year (or Cory probably walks).

 

 

Yes, we did.  If you think Brodeur plays 18 games this year if he's healthy, you're nuts - he would go mad with media frenzy after sitting for most of a month.  He's not signing up for that.  Nine games.

 

Right. It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. He wouldn't play 18 games and so he is not here. Period.

Edited by Neb00rs

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Isn't this a thread about Mike Cammalleri?

You can title a thread whatever you want, but on this board it will always devolve into a debate about Marty being the worst goalie in the history of mankind or Lou having the game pass him by.

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You can title a thread whatever you want, but on this board it will always devolve into a debate about Marty being the worst goalie in the history of mankind or Lou having the game pass him by.

 

Truth. +1

Edited by Neb00rs

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