Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 11 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: lol that's a much more detailed version of the events that happened, but in the end Marty did tell Lupien to fvck off. He could have sided with Lupien and went his own way and make a ton more over his career on other teams. Point is that Marty didn't go with the flow like most players do and thought for himself rather than having his agent constantly in his ear. I have read more than once that Parise didn't sign a long-term deal with the Devils the year before he became a UFA was because his agent told him to hold out and see what he will get in the open market. Not only that but there were some reports (not sure how accurate but read this more than once) that Parise was close to signing a longer term deal with the Devils until his agents got in his ear. Now I read reports that Vesey made his decision after consulting his agent(s). That's usually the death knell for Devils hopes of signing highly sought after free agents. I certainly cannot prove it for sure, but when I see that line that spells doom for us unless we offer the most money (which we couldn't in this case due to rules and even in some instances where we offer the most money we lose). Basically it's hard being a team that has NJ in it's name (and I have a feeling I am going to start a sh!t storm with that line even though it's completely true). Much of what I posted is in his book...especially the bits about Lupien post-95. Yeah, the first bolded goes without saying...Lou and Marty definitely had a very strong relationship...almost to the point where it became a bit of a detriment to the team at the very end (no one could bring themselves to do the right thing in Marty's final season). He said that heard rumblings about the NHLPA not being happy with his team-friendly way of doing business (and Marty mentions in his book that not having to pay agent commissions made it a lot easier to take less money), but also said that no one had the balls to say anything to his face, so he didn't care what they had to say about that. Re: the second bolded...I think people still think of the franchise as Lou's Devils, as this "stuck-in-the-mud" team that somehow plays nothing but trap hockey and STILL plays all of its games in a swamp. We know that a lot of awesome things came out of Lou's era here. We also know that some things got pretty hard to take after a while, and that the franchise often took on the best AND the worst parts of Lou's personality. And yeah, I think a lot of people have some unfortunate preconceptions of what they THINK New Jersey is, as opposed to what it ACTUALLY is. The owners and GM are trying to change it up for the better (it was definitely time for changes in philosophy both on AND off the ice), and so far I like what they're doing. But it's going to take some more time...and some wins (a couple of playoff appearances sure won't hurt). I like that Shero is trading for some young guys to build around (like Palmieri and Hall...really wish Cory could somehow be five years younger), who will hopefully be a part of consistent contender in the near future, and can be those guys who carry the torch for the Devils and become those next "proud to be in NJ and playing for the Devils" guys...something that other players might want to be a part of. I understand why Lou kept going to the UFA well when there weren't enough guys coming up through the organization, but the team had become soulless and faceless, and too reliant on what was left of the old guard. You've got a crop of young players who should be here for a while, some of whom should be pretty good...I won't kill Lou for making the age old GM mistake of adding pieces to a non-existent nucleus at the very end of a proficient run, but Shero is off to a nice start in putting together a potentially solid nucleus (if Travis can ever consistently find his offense again, it gets a lot more interesting). Hopefully it won't be too long before all Shero will have to do is either sign or trade for that one or two players who help to bring it all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Much of what I posted is in his book...especially the bits about Lupien post-95. Yeah, the first bolded goes without saying...Lou and Marty definitely had a very strong relationship...almost to the point where it became a bit of a detriment to the team at the very end (no one could bring themselves to do the right thing in Marty's final season). He said that heard rumblings about the NHLPA not being happy with his team-friendly way of doing business (and Marty mentions in his book that not having to pay agent commissions made it a lot easier to take less money), but also said that no one had the balls to say anything to his face, so he didn't care what they had to say about that. Re: the second bolded...I think people still think of the franchise as Lou's Devils, as this "stuck-in-the-mud" team that somehow plays nothing but trap hockey and STILL plays all of its games in a swamp. We know that a lot of awesome things came out of Lou's era here. We also know that some things got pretty hard to take after a while, and that the franchise often took on the best AND the worst parts of Lou's personality. And yeah, I think a lot of people have some unfortunate preconceptions of what they THINK New Jersey is, as opposed to what it ACTUALLY is. The owners and GM are trying to change it up for the better (it was definitely time for changes in philosophy both on AND off the ice), and so far I like what they're doing. But it's going to take some more time...and some wins (a couple of playoff appearances sure won't hurt). I like that Shero is trading for some young guys to build around (like Palmieri and Hall...really wish Cory could somehow be five years younger), who will hopefully be a part of consistent contender in the near future, and can be those guys who carry the torch for the Devils and become those next "proud to be in NJ and playing for the Devils" guys...something that other players might want to be a part of. I understand why Lou kept going to the UFA well when there weren't enough guys coming up through the organization, but the team had become soulless and faceless, and too reliant on what was left of the old guard. You've got a crop of young players who should be here for a while, some of whom should be pretty good...I won't kill Lou for making the age old GM mistake of adding pieces to a non-existent nucleus at the very end of a proficient run, but Shero is off to a nice start in putting together a potentially solid nucleus (if Travis can ever consistently find his offense again, it gets a lot more interesting). Hopefully it won't be too long before all Shero will have to do is either sign or trade for that one or two players who help to bring it all together. I enjoyed reading this post, thanks BTW your assessment is correct IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 3 hours ago, redruM said: I disagree, if the team crashes he will be in the spot light as either the only good thing or another wrong decision... And which spotlight would this be exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Brodeur used a lawyer who was not certified as an NHL agent to look over his contracts - this is part of why the NHLPA was not happy with him. I thought Gilles Lupien was also Claude Lemieux's agent during that whole fax fiasco but I cannot find that information, so I suspect it's not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: I like that Shero is trading for some young guys to build around (like Palmieri and Hall...really wish Cory could somehow be five years younger), who will hopefully be a part of consistent contender in the near future, and can be those guys who carry the torch for the Devils and become those next "proud to be in NJ and playing for the Devils" guys...something that other players might want to be a part of. I understand why Lou kept going to the UFA well when there weren't enough guys coming up through the organization, but the team had become soulless and faceless, and too reliant on what was left of the old guard. You've got a crop of young players who should be here for a while, some of whom should be pretty good...I won't kill Lou for making the age old GM mistake of adding pieces to a non-existent nucleus at the very end of a proficient run, but Shero is off to a nice start in putting together a potentially solid nucleus (if Travis can ever consistently find his offense again, it gets a lot more interesting). Hopefully it won't be too long before all Shero will have to do is either sign or trade for that one or two players who help to bring it all together. That's a huge might. Even in the 1999-2003 span it was tough for Devils to get the top free agents though it's when you are at your peak that you have less of a need for them. Still though when the Rangers were terrible during this period too and the Islanders even worse, the Rangers were still viewed as the sexiest of the 3 area teams for players to land at. It really is the entire Manhattan address that compels these players and their agents. Who knows, maybe now that we don't have a management group that treats the players like alien hostages inside of Area 51 and allow them to market themselves more players and their agents will see NJ as having potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Tough to argue the kid isn't bright having gone to Harvard, Kids that come up through juniors are more likely to fit the mold maybe not so much the ivy league kids, I think the draw of playing in NY and especially MSG is huge for some kids whether the Rags suck or not. I think the "opportunity" to play in Brooklyn is relatively meaningless and even detrimental regardless of Taveras and company. Slice it however you want Newark, Hoboken etc. isn't NY, I work in the financial district, personally I hate everything about it BUT for the most part I'm in the minority. It's a huge draw for a sh!tload of people and especially athletes. 7 hours ago, MadDog2020 said: In the end, the agent works for the player. The buck stops with the player. All an agent can do is advise- that's it. At the end of the day, the player decides what he wants to do. The problem is most of these guys aren't that bright, so they listen to everything the agent tells them to do because they aren't fully capable of an original thought in a lot of cases. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited August 23, 2016 by titans04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 16 hours ago, DevsMan84 said: That's a huge might. Even in the 1999-2003 span it was tough for Devils to get the top free agents though it's when you are at your peak that you have less of a need for them. Still though when the Rangers were terrible during this period too and the Islanders even worse, the Rangers were still viewed as the sexiest of the 3 area teams for players to land at. It really is the entire Manhattan address that compels these players and their agents. Who knows, maybe now that we don't have a management group that treats the players like alien hostages inside of Area 51 and allow them to market themselves more players and their agents will see NJ as having potential. In fairness, were the Devils really trying all that hard to land top free agents then? Like Lou once told Marty: "The Rangers will go sign the best player. We'll sign the one that's best for our team." And the feeling I'm sure with the Rangers with some players is that with all of the names coming in, how could they keep sucking? I don't think anyone signed with the Rangers with the thinking that "I'm coming to a bad team, but at least I get to play in New York!" I think the players signing there during their playoff drought truly felt that they could turn it around. Like I said, it will take more time for the idea that this is still Lou's Devils to go away, but like you just touched on, it's clear that this isn't Lou's franchise anymore...it's not a continuation of his ideas. I don't kid myself that NJ will ever be a top-choice destination, but I do think that if Shero keeps everything on the right track, and it becomes more obvious that it's a different Devils franchise, that more players will be amenable to signing here without massive overpayment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 21 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: In fairness, were the Devils really trying all that hard to land top free agents then? Like Lou once told Marty: "The Rangers will go sign the best player. We'll sign the one that's best for our team." And the feeling I'm sure with the Rangers with some players is that with all of the names coming in, how could they keep sucking? I don't think anyone signed with the Rangers with the thinking that "I'm coming to a bad team, but at least I get to play in New York!" I think the players signing there during their playoff drought truly felt that they could turn it around. Like I said, it will take more time for the idea that this is still Lou's Devils to go away, but like you just touched on, it's clear that this isn't Lou's franchise anymore...it's not a continuation of his ideas. I don't kid myself that NJ will ever be a top-choice destination, but I do think that if Shero keeps everything on the right track, and it becomes more obvious that it's a different Devils franchise, that more players will be amenable to signing here without massive overpayment. Back then when the Devils were a powerhouse, Conte could still draft, and Lou hadn't lost his marbles yet we didn't need to land the top free agents. The team didn't need centerpieces or even big-time complimentary players. All they basically needed were role players to fill in the gaps. As for the second part, I really do think at least some of them thought that. The Rangers in the middle and latter part of their 7/8 year suckage in the late 90's/early 2000's were spinning their wheels in the mud with overpaid free agents and underperforming draft picks/prospects. It wasn't until Sather decided to completely hit the reset button at the 04 trade deadline that they started to turn things around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I would also argue that a free agent signing with another team is far less of a fvck than a guy who gets drafted, refuses to sign a deal with the team who drafted him even though the money was equal, refused to sign with the team his rights were traded to, and then signed with the Big Blue Douche. Nashville and Buffalo got fvcked by Vesey, the others, not so much. None of this of course has anything to do with their parents dying, especially given that tons of players sign with different teams in free agency every year and their parents survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 1 hour ago, mfitz804 said: I would also argue that a free agent signing with another team is far less of a fvck than a guy who gets drafted, refuses to sign a deal with the team who drafted him even though the money was equal, refused to sign with the team his rights were traded to, and then signed with the Big Blue Douche. Nashville and Buffalo got fvcked by Vesey, the others, not so much. Yup, also, pundits and fans alike realize that BOTH teams that had his rights (Buffalo/Nashville) were probably the top 2 best fits for him as well. I'm over him signing with the Rangers, but I'm still truly puzzled by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 2 hours ago, DJ Eco said: Yup, also, pundits and fans alike realize that BOTH teams that had his rights (Buffalo/Nashville) were probably the top 2 best fits for him as well. I'm over him signing with the Rangers, but I'm still truly puzzled by it. Especially Nashville, which in addition to being a decent team, also seems like a cool place to live as a young person with money (and even on an entry level deal, that's still a lot of money for your first job). A guy like that worries me, its demonstrating a "me first" attitude before you have ever stepped on the ice or touched a single puck. Doesn't sit well with me. Of course, if he signed with us, I would get over that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 57 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Especially Nashville, which in addition to being a decent team, also seems like a cool place to live as a young person with money (and even on an entry level deal, that's still a lot of money for your first job). A guy like that worries me, its demonstrating a "me first" attitude before you have ever stepped on the ice or touched a single puck. Doesn't sit well with me. Of course, if he signed with us, I would get over that. And above all, they have a spot for him!!!!!!!!!! That's what drives me crazy; so it must drive Preds fans even more up a wall. For all kinds of reasons, Nashville was the perfect place for him. If he stayed in Nashville, he'd be getting SOLID 2nd line minutes on a Vesey-Fisher-Neal line, oh man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 17 minutes ago, DJ Eco said: And above all, they have a spot for him!!!!!!!!!! That's what drives me crazy; so it must drive Preds fans even more up a wall. For all kinds of reasons, Nashville was the perfect place for him. If he stayed in Nashville, he'd be getting SOLID 2nd line minutes on a Vesey-Fisher-Neal line, oh man. Not to mention, as I have said before, all of those young aspiring female country singers hanging around town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 30 minutes ago, DJ Eco said: And above all, they have a spot for him!!!!!!!!!! That's what drives me crazy; so it must drive Preds fans even more up a wall. For all kinds of reasons, Nashville was the perfect place for him. If he stayed in Nashville, he'd be getting SOLID 2nd line minutes on a Vesey-Fisher-Neal line, oh man. That's pretty much the thought I had too. NY also just signed Pirri. Unless the Rangers unload someone or think Buchnevich (sp) is not ready yet, he won't be getting a ton of playing time. Guy said he didn't like the spotlight and wanted playing time. He then promptly signs on a team that is overloaded on offense and has one of the biggest spotlights in the NHL. What a little hypocrite bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I'm not a moderator or anything... And i can also mind my own business but what about we stop talking about this forum-drama that is sensitive for some (rightfully from my point of view)... And as we are here, what about don't talk for a moment in this thread (for me it's talking more about the rangers than the Devils... Boring!) Not that I'm telling to people what they should talk about... Just a suggestion! I know summer is boring for hockey fan but as we are ready to talk non stop about the same thing what about being boring at talking for the I don't know how many time, I dunno, futur lines, hall, Schneider, points projection, my ass or brexit...? Just sayin' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunninWithTheDevil Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 7 hours ago, moustic said: I'm not a moderator or anything... And i can also mind my own business but what about we stop talking about this forum-drama that is sensitive for some (rightfully from my point of view)... And as we are here, what about don't talk for a moment in this thread (for me it's talking more about the rangers than the Devils... Boring!) Not that I'm telling to people what they should talk about... Just a suggestion! I know summer is boring for hockey fan but as we are ready to talk non stop about the same thing what about being boring at talking for the I don't know how many time, I dunno, futur lines, hall, Schneider, points projection, my ass or brexit...? Just sayin' im nominating moustic for the 2016 NJDevs.com Voice of Reason award 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) All the Vesey will do for the Rangers is prevent them from fully bottoming out during this period they're about to enter. They'll hover around 8th and 12th in the division, Lundqvist will decline. But Vesey will perhaps make them good enough to where they won't drop to where they can grab a top, difference making pick. If Kreider and JT Miller don't take enormous steps forward they just wont be very good. Hayes too. He took a step back last year and seems very pedestrian. Remember Matt Gilroy? He was Vesey before Vesey was Vesey. Edited August 29, 2016 by '7' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 41 minutes ago, '7' said: All the Vesey will do for the Rangers is prevent them from fully bottoming out during this period they're about to enter. They'll hover around 8th and 12th in the division, Lundqvist will decline. But Vesey will perhaps make them good enough to where they won't drop to where they can grab a top, difference making pick. If Kreider and JT Miller don't take enormous steps forward they just wont be very good. Hayes too. He took a step back last year and seems very pedestrian. Remember Matt Gilroy? He was Vesey before Vesey was Vesey. In the first part, I think you're giving him way too much credit. I think the Gilroy comparison is more accurate, don't think he's really gonna make much of a dent in the standings at all. But we'll see, we don't really know anything at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 I am done with Vesey! I don't wish him any bad will because of his decision to go to the Rangers. I think it is time for Devils fans to move on, that's all. We have a great GM and coaches along with a building team that if all goes without injuries should make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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