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MadDog2020

Around the League: 2016-17 edition

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DevsMan84    605
2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Right. I guess when I think of "dominant" I think more in terms of big chunks of one's career rather than for one season. Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman..those kind of guys were truly dominant. 

Well yeah those guys were just flat out dominant lol.

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22 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Right. I guess when I think of "dominant" I think more in terms of big chunks of one's career rather than for one season. Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman..those kind of guys were truly dominant. 

That's such an exclusive class, all of whom played significant chunks of their careers in the Live Puck Era. 

Elias wasn't year-to-year dominant, but definitely had H-O-F seasons, and overall I think he's borderline (though I probably would put him in).  One season that gets overlooked by some is his 2003-04 season, where he somehow netted 38 goals and added 43 assists.  The third-highest scoring forward on that team was Jeff Friesen...with 37 points in 81 GP.  The only other Devil to score over 20 goals that season was Brian Gionta, with 21. 

Despite the EGG line coming together late in the season, that year really shows how Lou didn't always do a good job giving Elias more of a supporting cast, or finding the right complementary players.  It seemed like Elias had to fight a lot of years to get his offense...almost to the point where you wondered how might have fared elsewhere. 

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Marleau has been a very effective player for a really long time. And averaging 28 goals and 32 assists per 82 games for his career is a very nice number, I'd take a few guys on my team who could do that.

That being said, he'd maybe be a Hall of Fame candidate if it's a weird year where there aren't a couple of eligible guys who are shoe ins. But I'm going to say, probably not.

I feel that as a Devils fan, Elias meant a lot more to me and as such I can't judge him without taking that into account. My gut feeling is he's in. 

Again, I'm not knocking Marleau...he's had a fine career for sure...just not H-O-F worthy. 

What also would hurt him from a H-O-F standpoint is that he's kind of "guilty by association", as far as those Shark teams go that rarely seem to go deep into the playoffs.  Prior to last season (when the Sharks finally broke through and got to the SCF), his teams had only reached the WCF three times, and won just three games in those series combined.  It's not all on him of course, but I think some people look at guys like him and Joe Thornton and others on those teams and say "Those guys just don't get over the hump in the big spot." 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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Nicomo    445
2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Definitely not...basically, a nice player who was able to be a nice player for most of his career, with some very good years (though he had the occasional down year that probably had some Shark fans saying "WTF?").  But that's it...not detracting from his accomplishments, he's done more than many players could ever dream of, but like you say, he was never a dominant guy...he's kind of the Elias of his team, but Elias was a better player who WAS occasionally dominant, and much more of a candidate for the HHOF than Marleau.  And if Marleau ever got in before Dave Andreychuk did, that would be a complete joke. 

Not a bad comparison. 

Marleau also had his C taken away.

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Just now, Nicomo said:

Not a bad comparison. 

Marleau also had his C taken away.

I wonder how the fans in San Jose feel about him, compared to how Jersey fans feel about Elias.  Elias has two rings and his teams reached four SCFs.  Elias is pretty beloved here...I wonder if it's the same for Marleau out there.

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mfitz804    1,443

I remember Jeremy Roenick was very critical of Marleau in his book, basically said he wasn't a hard worker and wasn't a motivator at all. 

Edited by mfitz804

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MadDog2020    1,929

Roenick is a blowhard a$$hole. Also a loser on the ice who never won anything. He should keep his big mouth shut.


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DevsMan84    605
16 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Roenick is a blowhard a$$hole. Also a loser on the ice who never won anything. He should keep his big mouth shut.


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To be fair, Marleau has never won anything either.

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8 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

To be fair, Marleau has never won anything either.

I think MD2020 was saying "Who's Roenick to talk?", when it came to Roenick criticizing a player who hasn't won anything. 

Based on the links I provided, seems like Roenick almost has an obsession with Marleau. 

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MadDog2020    1,929
To be fair, Marleau has never won anything either.

I know. That's what I'm saying. Marleau hasn't won anything, but Roenick didn't win sh!t so he has some balls to call out anyone else.

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thecoffeecake    194

The title of Roenick's book is hilarious. The dude really seems to have some grand illusions. They honored him the other night in Chicago, and he came out skating in full equipment. Whether that was his idea or not, any reasonable person is going to understand how ridiculous that is and not do it.

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Devilsfan118    761

JR is a joke.  Can't stand him.  He and Milbury deserve eachother.

Delusions of grandeur.. 

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Chuck the Duck    201
12 minutes ago, ringtwins said:

Him and amonte in nhl 94 game on Playstation 1were unstoppable

Add in Chelios on D, Larmer and his slapper on the other wing, and Belfour in net, and that team was unbeatable.  Loved playing with them in that game vs. my friends. 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by Chuck the Duck
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DevsMan84    605

I remember Paul Coffey being pretty awesome in one of those mid 90's NHL games as well.

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mfitz804    1,443

The truth, as they say, is usually somewhere in the middle. 

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CRASHER    41
On 1/24/2017 at 11:23 AM, MadDog2020 said:

Roenick is a blowhard a$$hole. Also a loser on the ice who never won anything. He should keep his big mouth shut.


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You mean the guy who had a press conference in his own hotel room after having surgery to fix a broken jaw??? Dude couldn't shut up if you stuck a gun in his mouth :D

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Lateralous    163
On 1/24/2017 at 10:10 AM, mfitz804 said:

Right. I guess when I think of "dominant" I think more in terms of big chunks of one's career rather than for one season. Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman..those kind of guys were truly dominant. 

In fairness, Yzerman scored a ton early in his career but it wasn't until he dialed it back on scoring and became more of a two way guy  that the Red Wings became a championship caliber team.  I'm by no means trying to start a Yzerman vs Elias debate but sometimes I think it gets held against Patrik that he played a two way game from essentially day one instead of showing that he could really pile up points (by forgetting the defensive zone) early in his career. 

Anyway, I would say being a point per game in '99-'00, scoring or assisting on what seemed like every major goal in the 2000 cup run and then finishing 3rd in the league in points in '00-'01 while having a ridiculous +45 is pretty damn dominant.  

    

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On 1/24/2017 at 0:05 PM, thecoffeecake said:

The title of Roenick's book is hilarious. The dude really seems to have some grand illusions. They honored him the other night in Chicago, and he came out skating in full equipment. Whether that was his idea or not, any reasonable person is going to understand how ridiculous that is and not do it.

Ew are you serious?

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Lateralous    163
On 1/24/2017 at 10:34 AM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Despite the EGG line coming together late in the season, that year really shows how Lou didn't always do a good job giving Elias more of a supporting cast, or finding the right complementary players.  It seemed like Elias had to fight a lot of years to get his offense...almost to the point where you wondered how might have fared elsewhere. 

 

In much the same way that Marty covered Lou's back side for assembling some really bad defenses post Niedermayer, there were many seasons where Elias basically single handedly gave us a decent second line by dragging around guys like Clarkson, and the ghosts of Sykora and Rolston when we really should have been adding another top 6 to the roster.    

3 minutes ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Member when the ASG was something to be excited about?

berries.JPG

This would be the perfect weekend to hold the Winter Classic.  Better chance of cold weather and no college football bowl games.     

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thecoffeecake    194

What's different about this year's all star weekend that it sucks so bad? No one cared about it leading up, there was no buzz surrounding it at all, and the atmosphere is terrible. I thought Columbus was ok and really hoped Nashville with what a huge success it was would turn the event around. Maybe not.

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Jerzey    201
2 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Love Snoop. I got a hug from him for giving him a bottle of Hennessy XO when he played the Super Bowl after party when it was in Jacksonville (I bartended the after party for the Patriots after they won the Super Bowl. Also met Lionel Ritchie and the second black guy and Asian guy from the Black Eyed Peas).

Edited by Jerzey
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