2018 JETS

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Fitz up until last year seemed to be that guy that sometimes looked like he was SO close to putting it together and figuring things out...after a solid run with the Texans, and what amounted to a career year with the Jets, I could understand the Jets rolling the dice, especially since the were able to re-sign Fitz 100% on their terms. 

But suffice it to say that he completely blew his chance to be an incumbent starter in the NFL.  He's a clipboard holder from here on out, unless there's an emergency.

 

[NJDevs4978]

Josh McCown IS Fitz, minus Decker/Marshall/etc and plus a better atitude.

[SS#4-Life]

1 hour ago, Beezer34 said:

They never should've signed Fitz in the first place. Year 1 was an apparition. He walked into a situation where his o-line still had a Mangold & D'Brick, along with Winters, Carpenter and Giacomini. His WR's were Marshall, Decker, Kerley and a fantastic rookie named Enunwa. Behind him were Ivory & Powell in the backfield. On defense the front-office spent a fortune on the $econdary (Cromartie, Skrine, Revis, Gilchrist, etc) the front seven were: Harris, Richardson, Snacks, Wilkerson, Williams, Pace.

on paper i agree. damn good team

7 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Josh McCown IS Fitz, minus Decker/Marshall/etc and plus a better atitude.

i guess. but at least fitzgerald had chemistry

[Beezer34]

20 minutes ago, SS#4-Life said:

on paper i agree. damn good team

It was. I sometimes wonder if this whole exodus of a season, isn't spite and punishment by Maccagnan against Bowles for 2015. Almost like:   "Hey.... I gave you a very talented team, with very little holes, against a putrid schedule to make the playoffs.. and you got blocked by Rex? With the roster I built for you.... you let Rex sweep us and out-coach you, to the point where now MY ass is on the line, so, here....... coach yourself a dogsh!t team into the playoffs without my help, and go fvck yourself"

Edited September 11, 2017 by Beezer34

['7']

On 9/11/2017 at 4:58 PM, Beezer34 said:

It was. I sometimes wonder if this whole exodus of a season, isn't spite and punishment by Maccagnan against Bowles for 2015. Almost like:   "Hey.... I gave you a very talented team, with very little holes, against a putrid schedule to make the playoffs.. and you got blocked by Rex? With the roster I built for you.... you let Rex sweep us and out-coach you, to the point where now MY ass is on the line, so, here....... coach yourself a dogsh!t team into the playoffs without my help, and go fvck yourself"

I'm not as pro Mac as I used to be. Devin Smith...ok mulligan. Will he ever amount to anything? Probably not, but there was no sign this would happen when he was in college. Hackenberg, bust. Darron Lee...not looking good.

I would still give him 1 run at it. Let him pick his coach, let him pick his QB in 2018. But if his draft picks continue to unravel, or if he bombs the 2018 draft (even if he picks the slam dunk QB) I will be ready to part ways with Mac and soon.

Woody has to open up the pocketbook and get a bigtime coach in 2018 and give him the bigtime QB that he craves. Someone like Gruden.

['7']

The real problem though with that damn good team...was that it was on its last legs. Mangold isn't anywhere right now. D-Brick retired. Revis flat out QUIT. Who knows why. He showed up fat last year and quit.

Ivory they dumped at the right time. He's not a feature back anymore.

David Harris looked slow and shot for NE the other night. Damon Harrison was a cap casualty. Decker had 10 receiving yards last Sunday. I think his career is starting to wind down. You basically had a nice little window open up in 2015/2016 to take a run at it with some 28-32 year old guys. 2015 was a 10-6 season that normally gets you in the playoffs and 2016 it all crashed down. And you didn't have a coach that had (or has now) the respect of his players or the strategic mind to coach in the NFL. He's overwhelmed and helpless.

Edited September 12, 2017 by '7'

[Daniel]

Unfortunately, the fan doesn't really get to see the exact vision the GM has for the team.  To me though, if McCagnan were really good at what he was doing he would have seen what was coming last year, and planned accordingly.  And by that, I mean under no circumstances drafting Hackenberg in the second round, and planning for when you do come across a good QB, either in the draft or free agency.  And you do that by building an offensive line, so that QB doesn't end up getting killed.  By far, I think the Colts are the poorest run franchise in the league.  They had a potentially generational QB fall into their lap, and it's five years later and he's missing lots of games due to getting beat up so badly because they keep drafting undersized receivers with their early picks. 

['7']

29 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Unfortunately, the fan doesn't really get to see the exact vision the GM has for the team.  To me though, if McCagnan were really good at what he was doing he would have seen what was coming last year, and planned accordingly.  And by that, I mean under no circumstances drafting Hackenberg in the second round, and planning for when you do come across a good QB, either in the draft or free agency.  And you do that by building an offensive line, so that QB doesn't end up getting killed.  By far, I think the Colts are the poorest run franchise in the league.  They had a potentially generational QB fall into their lap, and it's five years later and he's missing lots of games due to getting beat up so badly because they keep drafting undersized receivers with their early picks. 

I think he recognized this is what could happen in 2016 if he went for it in 2015 with a veteran team, but letting the O-line decay like it did was unforgivable. And COMPLETELY neglecting it in the 2017 draft is unreal. Maybe Adams and Maye turn into a incredible All-Pro/Pro Bowl combo for a decade. Or maybe they're just ok. But it's a gamble to try and make one part of your team mega dominant and rely on dumpster diving a few gems to shore up other parts. The Jets have far too often fielded such unbalanced squads.

Going back to even before Hack. Geno was an atrocious pick. And so was Calvin Pryor. How nice would've Brandin Cooks been over him who I was pounding the table for. We are still in a way digging out from Idzik's mishaps

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by '7'

[Beezer34]

12 hours ago, '7' said:

Let him pick his coach, let him pick his QB in 2018. But if his draft picks continue to unravel, or if he bombs the 2018 draft (even if he picks the slam dunk QB) I will be ready to part ways with Mac and soon.

The well run organizations know that drafting a young kid is only half of the equation. Signing a QUALITY veteran, IN ADDITION.. is the other half. When you look at some of the other great QB's in the league, they were drafted onto teams that ALREADY had a great quarterback. Eli Manning had Kurt Warner. Rodgers had Favre. Prescott had Romo. Brady had Bledsoe. Rivers had Brees. etc. By doing this, you're creating a three-fold panacea. #1) You're allowing the kid you draft to get mentored by a guy who absolutely commands respect from everyone around him. #2) You're showing the kid that you're not just handing him the spoils without a competition. #3) In the event that the kid isn't ready, and he needs a season holding a clipboard... you still have a guy that can win you games, with the kid you drafted looking on, learning from one of the best. ---- The Jets have never operated this way in 40 years. The times when they actually do go out and sign a veteran (like Favre) there isn't anyone behind him with a legitimate future. The times when they draft a kid high in the draft.. like Sanchez.... they put Mark Brunell behind him. They came close on 2 occasions. Testaverde\Pennington.. and Geno & Vick. It didn't work with the latter, because Michael Vick wasn't really Michael Vick anymore.

13 hours ago, '7' said:

Woody has to open up the pocketbook and get a bigtime coach in 2018 and give him the bigtime QB that he craves. Someone like Gruden.

I want Sean Payton & Drew Brees. From eveything I'm reading, both are gone next year. Bring in Payton, and let him run everything. The entire program.. give him the keys to city. It might be easier than you think given the ties with John Morton. Then go draft Rosen\Darnold\Allen, and have them follow Brees everywhere he goes. If he has a bowel movement, tell them to come back with copious notes.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

The one caveat to the above is that the vet isn't always in much of a mood to be any kind of mentor to the young guy...Joe Montana didn't really bother much with Steve Young, and Brett Favre didn't want much to do with Aaron Rodgers...some guys are very territorial that way.  In a way, the player is mentored more simply by watching, as opposed to a vet helping him learn. 

Bledsoe and Brady were actually very good friends, but Bledsoe also never saw Brady as a real threat to take his job...Brady was a what-the-hell 6th-round pick, and Bledsoe was a #1-overall $100 million man who, despite three straight mediocre seasons (all of which saw him play pretty badly in the second half of each season), was still very much entrenched as the #1 QB.  Bledsoe was actually sure that he was going to pick up right where he left off once he was healthy enough to play...even when the team started winning with Brady, he still felt that way.  He was actually quite surprised (and pissed) that he only got to play when Brady was injured in the AFC Championship game...and as everyone knows, he was gone the next season. 

Bledsoe claims that none of his anger at the time was ever directed towards Brady (more the franchise and the situation, though sorry Drew, Brady simply outplayed you and in terms of big game performances, you couldn't have on more opposite sides of the spectrum), but if Bledsoe truly ever felt that Brady could unseat him from Day 1, I wonder if he would have been as friendly towards him. 

Boomer has occasionally talked on the WFAN about his situation with David Klingler in his final season (first go-around) with the Bengals, after he'd been their starting QB for several years...obviously that last season was a mess (David Shula was the coach, one of the worst ever in the NFL)...amazingly Boomer never threw for 200 yards in any given game that season (1992), and it was obvious by the end of that season that he'd be moving on (to the Jets, as we all know).

Boomer's take on how he felt about the team drafting Klingler and grooming the team:

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/10/sports/football-notebook-esiason-unfazed-about-newcomer.html

Later in the conversation, Esiason began to express some concern over the ramifications of the pick. Esiason, who turned 31 last month, can't ignore the signs that the team might consider him a caretaker, watching over a rebuilding project that will be handed over to Klingler in the next couple of years. Not a Good Message

"I heard and read that some of the coaches are saying that our goal is to make the playoffs this year and that we can be a playoff team in a couple of years," Esiason said. "They're saying the wrong things. I don't want to wait two years to be good.

"I'm not going to groom this team for someone else to take to the Super Bowl. It's frustrating, but that seems to be the way it goes in this business."

Esiason said he was committed to the team for the 1992 season. But after this season, if there are any indications that he will be nothing more than a well-paid guardian, he will seek out trades, he said. He said he has heard through his representatives that several teams have asked about his availability this year.

That is the primary reason Esiason might feel as if he is simply keeping the team warm for Klingler: The Bengals, through waivers and Plan B free agency, lost some valuable members of its offensive line, and the team did not seriously seek to address that need in the draft. In addition, the defense needs major restructuring.

"Looking at the players that we picked on the second day of the draft, it looked like the coaches were still sipping champagne celebrating the first day," Esiason said. "Some of the guys never played in college. We got one guy who played semipro ball. Another was a bouncer at a bar. One guy was a bodyguard for Patty LaBelle. That might not be so bad. Maybe we can get her to sing the national anthem."

But to Boomer's credit (and he's talked about this part of it on the WFAN), once he lost his job, he played the good soldier and tried to help Klingler out in the end:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/266913/BENGALS-BOOMER-AGREE-TRADE-BEST-FOR-EVERYONE.html

There was speculation that Esiason was upset with the first-round pick of quarterback David Klingler, especially because the Bengals, 3-13 in 1991, were lacking in some key defensive areas.

 If that were the case, Klingler never heard it.

 "I didn't know how Boomer would react when I got here," Klingler said. "But he was very helpful, in every way he could be."

[Daniel]

The vet quarterback mentoring the young quarterback is really an overrated phenomenon .  More often than not, a team's "QB of the future" and the vet actually don't get along all that well. Aaron Rodgers' mechanics and footwork coming out of college were a mess.  Go look at footage of him in college, and you'll see that he would hold the ball up against his ear.  Good quarterback coaches taught him to stop doing that and it took like three or four years.  I imagine if Favre were actually in the mood to teach him anything, Rodgers would have been worse off for it.

Really, the only thing that a veteran QB will usually teach the younger one is sort of the obvious stuff about being a professional, how to prepare, etc.  The much more important thing is not getting the crap kicked out of your young QB, which is why the Jets should be stocking up on O-line help as much as possible. 

And while Payton might be a possibility, I would see Brees retiring before he's part of a rebuild and just to be somewhere until the young guy is ready to replace him.

[MadDog2020]

http://www.businessinsider.com/sam-darnold-josh-rosen-skip-draft-adam-schefter-2017-9


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[NJDevs4978]

lol dear god these guys can go fvck themselves if they stay in school another year just to avoid the Jets.  Peyton was one thing, we didn't give him concrete assurance we'd keep the pick, and we did trade the pick.  But you don't see guys staying in school to avoid the frigging Giants, Eli engineered a trade TO the Giants

Doesn't always help you staying the extra year anyway, just ask Matt Leinart.  It's really only downside if you're already going in the top five.  Another year for people to pick your game apart, or to get hurt.

Edited September 16, 2017 by NJDevs4978

['7']

Florham Park is actually nice. That whole area is an upper middle class suburb. And the Jets have one of the best training facilities in the league. Like top 5.

But I get what they're saying. The Jets are not an appealing destination. It's not California. And they hear Jets fans chirping NOW about getting one of them like it's a sure thing. It makes them feel uncomfortable and being the savior of a 1-15 or 0-16 franchise is not easy. I think when both declare they will likely go the Eli route and try to force themselves onto a franchise with a better reputation and maybe a championship in the not too distant past. Denver is going to need a Qb, New Orleans, LA Chargers, Pittsburgh, the Giants are going to be in the QB market again to replace Eli. And this is where these kids are going to try and muscle themselves into.

But also, this is why sometimes it's just not the best idea to outright tank. You make yourself look so god damn unappealing. Maybe we should've just tried to put a competitive team on the field and make a ridiculous trade up into the top 5 to grab a QB in 2018.

Edited September 16, 2017 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

lol even when the Raiders take the whole second quarter off they still beat us going away without breaking a sweat.  Todd's wonderful coaching on display again with guys like Jalen Richard and Cordarelle Patterson taking it to the house on us.  And you think after the first two TD's you MIGHT want to cover Crabtree on the goalline.  Might.

But as much as I can't stand Todd how about some of these GREAT talents actually playing football?  The overhyped Leonard Williams makes no discernible impact on the field, Mo's still counting his money, Macc's wonderful linebacker picks have stunk.

['7']

2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

lol even when the Raiders take the whole second quarter off they still beat us going away without breaking a sweat.  Todd's wonderful coaching on display again with guys like Jalen Richard and Cordarelle Patterson taking it to the house on us.  And you think after the first two TD's you MIGHT want to cover Crabtree on the goalline.  Might.

But as much as I can't stand Todd how about some of these GREAT talents actually playing football?  The overhyped Leonard Williams makes no discernible impact on the field, Mo's still counting his money, Macc's wonderful linebacker picks have stunk.

 

A player like Leonard Williams is like having a great closer on a bad baseball team. Mo Wilkerson I would be shocked if he's back next year as it seems like he's checked out. Could be some friction between him and Bowles that we hear more about once hes gone.

Darron Lee has been bad, but it looks like a lot of guys from that mid 1st round on down in 2016 aren't panning out. Could be just a bad crop.

Edited September 18, 2017 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

Honestly for all the nonsense about how the Jets should have signed Cutler if you're actually 'trying' to win, well Cutler sucked today

Thankfully the pressure of 0-16 is gone (although the fact people were talking about it in the preseason and after two lousy weeks was asinine), now they can just play football.

['7']

On 9/24/2017 at 3:49 PM, NJDevs4978 said:

Honestly for all the nonsense about how the Jets should have signed Cutler if you're actually 'trying' to win, well Cutler sucked today

Thankfully the pressure of 0-16 is gone (although the fact people were talking about it in the preseason and after two lousy weeks was asinine), now they can just play football.

I can't remember the last team pegged for 0-16 more than this Jets team. I mean they're not good but the talent isn't so overwhelmingly bad (especially on defense) where anybody should've considered 0-16. The media was just in fanatical loljets mode. Only other team that gets this treatment is Cleveland and I don't think they were ever projected to be 0-16 in the past decade or so.

Jacksonville will be a tough matchup for us. But I can see them making life tough for a bad QB like Bortles the same way they did to Cutler. 

Morton has done an incredible job with what he's been given with this offense. He gets everybody involved and does a nice job finding weaknesses in other teams D.

[NJDevs4978]

lol typical Jets, they fire you up with a workmanlike first half staying in the game, doing the fake punt to put themselves in position to take the lead, then they somehow get a delay of game on a dead ball and YOU JUST KNEW Cantazaro was missing the FG after that, by the margin of the penalty

[NJDevs4978]

Well I don't know what THAT was, but I'll take it.  The worst team in football history is now 2-2.  

Are we still changing the draft rules cause of the Jets?

Edited October 1, 2017 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

Up to 3-2 now for the worst team in football history.  The D continues to play reasonably well, albeit against a bad offense/kicker and in spite of Leonard Williams getting gulfed up by a real impact player in Joe Thomas.  Not to mention they made Kevin Hogan look like Bernie Kosar at times. 

Offensively this looked more like the Jets we expected going into the season   But still a road win is a road win and they're now 3-2 and tied for first in the AFC East going into a suddenly entertaining showdown with the Pats next week in the big air conditioner at the Meadowlands.  If this D can actually play well against better competition I'll be fine with whatever happens and look to get QB's another way outside the draft (paging Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, etc).

Edited October 8, 2017 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

14 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Up to 3-2 now for the worst team in football history.  The D continues to play reasonably well, albeit against a bad offense/kicker and in spite of Leonard Williams getting gulfed up by a real impact player in Joe Thomas.  Not to mention they made Kevin Hogan look like Bernie Kosar at times. 

Offensively this looked more like the Jets we expected going into the season   But still a road win is a road win and they're now 3-2 and tied for first in the AFC East going into a suddenly entertaining showdown with the Pats next week in the big air conditioner at the Meadowlands.  If this D can actually play well against better competition I'll be fine with whatever happens and look to get QB's another way outside the draft (paging Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, etc).

8 of the last 10 games against the Pats have been within seven points or less, and the Jets are 3-7 in those games (pretty respectable considering how disparate the talent level and expectations have been over that time).  If the Jets were 0-5 or 1-4 I'd think that this would be a fairly easy win for the Pats, but sometimes when you're expected to do next to nothing and you see a winning record at this point in the season, that alone can get players to give a little more effort and try a little harder than they would have otherwise...a little of the classic "well why not us, us vs. the world" kind of mentality that can lead to some overachieving.

I think the Pats need to jump on the Jets early and get themselves a nice lead (say 21-3 or thereabouts)...if the Jets are hanging around in the 4th quarter (down by 6 or less), then it could become a dangerous game for the Pats. 

['7']

Jets are still doing this somewhat with smoke and mirrors, but I can't say enough good things about John Morton and the job he's doing in terms of utilizing his personnel. And while I will never trust Bowles in a critical situation since, the D seems to have hit its stride. They're certainly more larcenous than they were last year which is good to see. Yesterday was a bit tough playing without Ealy who's been outstanding at times for us. Browns really did a nice job on those sweeps where the Jets were looking to get Powell/McGuire just a little bit of daylight, make 1 cut, and head up the field. They plugged up everything. But other than that it was one of those games where I was pretty much waiting for the Browns to gag it up, which they did. What do they see in Hue Jackson anyway? He's 1-20 as their head coach. 2-24 if you count his last few weeks as Raiders coach. This guy is just a really really bad coach.

They're still not ready to play with or beat the Patriots. The talent just isn't there. But if they can hang with them through halftime, I'd be happy with that. Just play an inspired 60 minutes, that's all I ask. '

We're very close to closing the book on Rosen/Allen/Darnold etc hard to believe but unless the winds really shift they'll find themselves out of the running. It may very well be Cousins. Years ago before he really busted out and Griffin was still the golden boy, I recall the Jets were infatuated with Kirk.

Edited October 9, 2017 by '7'

[Daniel]

I think one has to come to the conclusion that the Jets are a relatively good team. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I think one has to come to the conclusion that the Jets are a relatively good team. 

At the very least, they're going to give their opponents a real fight.  Pats lucky that this is tied up at the half.