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The Devils epidemic of Choking


'7'

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These are a list of games where the Devils had leads or were tied in the 3rd only to either blow the game completely or lose in an OT/SO and squander a point. I have no idea if someone has compiled a list like this before but I have never seen such a team so psychologiclaly fragile and afraid as the Devils when they are tied or ahead in the 3rd. They are like a collective team of Armando Benitez's. 

10/20 Boston - (lose lead and game in 3rd, winning goal scored with under 2 min to go)

10/28 Chicago (lose point in 3rd, lose in OT. Hossa scores with under 3 min to go. Hawks win in OT) 

11/17 Anaheim (tied in 3rd. Lose on Kesler goal with under 4 min to go)

11/26 Pittsburgh (Lose point. Crosby ties it with 15 seconds to go. Lose in SO)

12/18 NYR (Lose point. Rags ties it with 1:30 to go. We lose in shootout)

1/12 Oilers - (Lead in 3rd. Oilers tie it with 7 min to go, we lose in OT)

2/3 Calgary - (Lead 3-2 in 3rd. Flames tie it with 13 min to go. Flames win in OT)

2/25 Rangers - (Lead 3-2 in 3rd. Rags score with 4 min to go. Rags win in OT)

2/27 Canadiens - (Lead 3-1 in 3rd. Schneider gives up 2 garbage goals, tying goal with 50 seconds left. Lose in OT)

3/2 Capitals - (tied in 3rd. Caps score with 13 min to go. Game over)

3/4 Bruins - (Tied in 3rd. Spooner scores with 13 min to go. Game over)

3/9 Avalanche (Tied in 3rd. Avs score with 1 minute to go. Game Over)

3/25 - Hurricanes (Tied in 3rd. Canes score with 10 to go. Game Over)

3/26 - Stars (Lead in 3rd. Stars score with 6 to go. Stars win in OT)

 

 

I have never seen such a list of continuous gag jobs. I mean this is hard to do even if you try!!

 

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2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

It's truly pathetic. This is a big reason why I'm not against changing coaches if there's a clear upgrade available.


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Personally, I'd never be opposed to changing coaches if there's a clear upgrade available. Isn't the idea to get the best coach possible?

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11 hours ago, Steven M. said:

Not at all going to try to defend the team but it's hard for me to classify some of those as chokes, being tied in the third and losing a game is something every team has to deal with. 

Choke isn't the right word, but I see what 7 is trying to say.  It's more like "blown/squandered opportunities" rather than "chokes".    If you look at that list, you could argue the games between 12/16 and 3/2 and/or 3/4 contributed greatly to us missing the playoffs again this year.  Around that time we were in the hunt and there was a massive logjam with about 8-10 teams for the final few spots.  All you have to do is look at teams like the Islanders and Lightning -- both of them each spent time in dead last in the Conference, pretty late into the season, and they managed to turn their fortunes around with some winning streaks, and mostly just not blowing opportunities they had to take 2 points, or at the very least, hang onto a point in regulation.  We on the other hand, as you can see from the list, managed to squander a point, sometimes two, in many games down the stretch when it was crunch time, and it sent us into a massive tailspin.

This list doesn't even include games where we were down a goal and couldn't manage to tie the game late, which I'd also consider somewhat of a missed opportunity.  Not to mention the list doesn't include games we lost to teams we "should have" beaten, either because we were at home, they were playing back to back, or they were just a crappy opponent (i.e. the recent games against Colorado and Arizona).  

The list that 7 posted is 14 games, and like others have mentioned, some of those are going to happen -- it's hockey, it's sports, and it's the natural cycle of one team getting unlucky and another getting lucky.   However of those 14, if you figure about half of them were just regular hockey lucky and occurrences, and the other half being true things we could/should have prevented or taken advantage of, that's about 7 games, plus the other scenarios I mentioned that aren't mentioned in this list, and you have easily 10-12 games we were lost out on at least 1 or 2 points.  Figure that's a good solid 10-20 points that we could have in addition to what we have now.  I know that's a little bit of a stretch and a lot of "what ifs" and speculation, but the simple fact of the matter is, had we learned how to effectively close out games and/or remain competitive late in games, we would be right in the thick of the playoff hunt, reasonably having 80-85 points quite easily.

I realize a lot of that is due to just being a "bad" team, but this to highlight that we aren't just simply a bad team, but rather a sub-par team that gets in its own way more than it should.

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1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Choke isn't the right word, but I see what 7 is trying to say.  It's more like "blown/squandered opportunities" rather than "chokes".    If you look at that list, you could argue the games between 12/16 and 3/2 and/or 3/4 contributed greatly to us missing the playoffs again this year.  Around that time we were in the hunt and there was a massive logjam with about 8-10 teams for the final few spots.  All you have to do is look at teams like the Islanders and Lightning -- both of them each spent time in dead last in the Conference, pretty late into the season, and they managed to turn their fortunes around with some winning streaks, and mostly just not blowing opportunities they had to take 2 points, or at the very least, hang onto a point in regulation.  We on the other hand, as you can see from the list, managed to squander a point, sometimes two, in many games down the stretch when it was crunch time, and it sent us into a massive tailspin.

This list doesn't even include games where we were down a goal and couldn't manage to tie the game late, which I'd also consider somewhat of a missed opportunity.  Not to mention the list doesn't include games we lost to teams we "should have" beaten, either because we were at home, they were playing back to back, or they were just a crappy opponent (i.e. the recent games against Colorado and Arizona).  

The list that 7 posted is 14 games, and like others have mentioned, some of those are going to happen -- it's hockey, it's sports, and it's the natural cycle of one team getting unlucky and another getting lucky.   However of those 14, if you figure about half of them were just regular hockey lucky and occurrences, and the other half being true things we could/should have prevented or taken advantage of, that's about 7 games, plus the other scenarios I mentioned that aren't mentioned in this list, and you have easily 10-12 games we were lost out on at least 1 or 2 points.  Figure that's a good solid 10-20 points that we could have in addition to what we have now.  I know that's a little bit of a stretch and a lot of "what ifs" and speculation, but the simple fact of the matter is, had we learned how to effectively close out games and/or remain competitive late in games, we would be right in the thick of the playoff hunt, reasonably having 80-85 points quite easily.

I realize a lot of that is due to just being a "bad" team, but this to highlight that we aren't just simply a bad team, but rather a sub-par team that gets in its own way more than it should.

I think it doesn't really highlight anything other than to show we are a bad team. Anything else is really just overthinking it. I just don't see losing a tied game in the third as choking. 

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One bad team got the breaks (and better goaltending) last season, this team isn't.  Bad is as bad does.  Part of being a collectively bad team is finding ways to lose games (including those that seem winnable). 

With every passing game I'm just glad that there's one less game left on the schedule.  I have never wanted to see a Devils season end as much as I do right now.  My poor kid keeps saying "Wow Daddy, the Devils don't ever seem to win anymore."  2-12-3...I never thought this team, flaws and all, could ever have a slump like that.  What a year...

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My main concern is that while yes, this team has been weakened with the poor play of Schneider, Greene missing some games with a family tragedy, Parenteau and Quincey dealt (not that they were great but they made US better) Cammalleri not playing (he still had 30 pts in 55 games) of course I didn't expect much winning...but I expected SOME. It's not like Shero is whispering in each individual players ears telling them to take it easy and loaf around. I would've liked to have seen more step up efforts. But it's not happening. This team may be further away than we'd like to think.

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Just now, '7' said:

My main concern is that while yes, this team has been weakened with the poor play of Schneider, Greene missing some games with a family tragedy, Parenteau and Quincey dealt (not that they were great but they made US better) Cammalleri not playing (he still had 30 pts in 55 games) of course I didn't expect much winning...but I expected SOME. It's not like Shero is whispering in each individual players ears telling them to take it easy and loaf around. I would've liked to have seen more step up efforts. But it's not happening. This team may be further away than we'd like to think.

I think last year's team got about the max number of points that it could have.  This team is probably closer to the other end.  Even if there's some "loafing around" going on now, I don't think you can kill them for it too much...the fact is that this team DID try for most of the season, but it's easy to start giving up when the wins just aren't coming...and some teams have no trouble pushing this team around.  This is a dead team playing out the string, with young players who don't have massively high upsides getting looks. 

As for Cam's 30 pts in 55 GP, he had that one hot streak, but has been damned near invisible otherwise...9 of his 10 goals came during that 8-game burst (as did 14 of his 30 points).  So one goal - ONE?! - in the other 42 games.  You figure a guy like Cam would score at least 7 or so almost by accident. 

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Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I think last year's team got about the max number of points that it could have.  This team is probably closer to the other end.  Even if there's some "loafing around" going on now, I don't think you can kill them for it too much...the fact is that this team DID try for most of the season, but it's easy to start giving up when the wins just aren't coming...and some teams have no trouble pushing this team around.  This is a dead team playing out the string, with young players who don't have massively high upsides getting looks. 

As for Cam's 30 pts in 55 GP, he had that one hot streak, but has been damned near invisible otherwise...9 of his 10 goals came during that 8-game burst (as did 14 of his 30 points).  So one goal - ONE?! - in the other 42 games.  You figure a guy like Cam would score at least 7 or so almost by accident. 

Cammalleri, to me, is probably the biggest disappointment of the season. Before his injury last year he was playing some incredible hockey and honestly if he didn't get hurt we're probably closer to making the playoffs. This year, just a complete no show. Healthy scratch at one point. I don't even know what will happen to him this offseason really.

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2 minutes ago, Steven M. said:

Cammalleri, to me, is probably the biggest disappointment of the season. Before his injury last year he was playing some incredible hockey and honestly if he didn't get hurt we're probably closer to making the playoffs. This year, just a complete no show. Healthy scratch at one point. I don't even know what will happen to him this offseason really.

Without going into it too much again, Cam is just one of those guys who seems destined to let you down...even when it's not his fault (and I'm not referring to what he went through with his daughter...that must have been pure hell...I mean more the many games he misses due to various ailments)...but it's always something...either injuries that have you saying "but he was on pace for", or less production than you were expecting...but he does just enough that you think he's somehow going to do more. 

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2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Without going into it too much again, Cam is just one of those guys who seems destined to let you down...even when it's not his fault (and I'm not referring to what he went through with his daughter...that must have been pure hell...I mean more the many games he misses due to various ailments)...but it's always something...either injuries that have you saying "but he was on pace for", or less production than you were expecting...but he does just enough that you think he's somehow going to do more. 

I just don't understand how someone so talented can go 35~ games with 1 goal. We were depending on him for more and just didn't get it. One of the many things that didn't break right for us this year.

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2 hours ago, Steven M. said:

I think it doesn't really highlight anything other than to show we are a bad team. Anything else is really just overthinking it. I just don't see losing a tied game in the third as choking. 

I think it shows an inability to finish.  There's lots of reasons as to why that is and what causes.  You could simply say "we're bad", but I think there's more/other reasons to it than just that.  I guess what I'm getting at is that I think it's also a combination of coaching and lack of heart.  A "bad team" would be akin to what you see in the Avalanche, a team that just loses games with regularity, seemingly not competitive in any of them, and it's clear that there's outclassed in almost every category.  While we definitely have our holes and deficiencies, I don't think that's the case with us.    In a tie game late in the 3rd, the outcome and 2 points in the standings is literally up for grabs.  Our problem has been that we cannot finish.  We aren't hungry enough for the win and to strike first.  I feel like in most of those situations, the team visibly is playing not to lose, which ironically (and rightfully) usually ends up happening.  

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake at winning me over, but to say that I've been impressed with really anything that Hynes has done in his tenure as coach for us would be a stretch.  Maybe it's because I had high hopes for him when he joined us, and I was glad that we brought in someone from the minor leagues and a fresh perspective.  Who knows.  But I put a lot of those late losses on him as a coach.  

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6 minutes ago, Steven M. said:

I just don't understand how someone so talented can go 35~ games with 1 goal. We were depending on him for more and just didn't get it. One of the many things that didn't break right for us this year.

Weird, crazy sh!t can happen in this game, especially in relatively short samples.  Elias' 4 goals in 42 GP (over two seasons) not long after he signed his big contract to stay here comes to mind.  And Theo Fleury's 15 goals in his first Ranger season was as wacky as it got.  He somehow shot 6.1% that year (he shot 13.3% the prior season and 12.6% the season after, with 70 goals combined for those before-and-after seasons). 

2 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I think it shows an inability to finish.  There's lots of reasons as to why that is and what causes.  You could simply say "we're bad", but I think there's more/other reasons to it than just that.  I guess what I'm getting at is that I think it's also a combination of coaching and lack of heart.  A "bad team" would be akin to what you see in the Avalanche, a team that just loses games with regularity, seemingly not competitive in any of them, and it's clear that there's outclassed in almost every category.  While we definitely have our holes and deficiencies, I don't think that's the case with us.    In a tie game late in the 3rd, the outcome and 2 points in the standings is literally up for grabs.  Our problem has been that we cannot finish.  We aren't hungry enough for the win and to strike first.  I feel like in most of those situations, the team visibly is playing not to lose, which ironically (and rightfully) usually ends up happening.  

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and a fair shake at winning me over, but to say that I've been impressed with really anything that Hynes has done in his tenure as coach for us would be a stretch.  Maybe it's because I had high hopes for him when he joined us, and I was glad that we brought in someone from the minor leagues and a fresh perspective.  Who knows.  But I put a lot of those late losses on him as a coach.  

But the inability to finish speaks to how iffy the talent really is...I don't think it's a lack of heart.  Other than Cam, who clearly didn't net as many goals as one would expect (even in a down year), how many others have really performed wildly below expectations?  Hell, you've got John Moore putting in 9 goals this season.  I definitely wouldn't have expected that.  And Palms is actually coming close to repeating last season.  Would've have necessarily penned that in either. 

At least Henrique is doing a nice job showing why you don't dare count on him for too much scoring.  You can't ever ask for much more than 20 goals out of him from now on, that's for damned sure. 

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22 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Without going into it too much again, Cam is just one of those guys who seems destined to let you down...even when it's not his fault (and I'm not referring to what he went through with his daughter...that must have been pure hell...I mean more the many games he misses due to various ailments)...but it's always something...either injuries that have you saying "but he was on pace for", or less production than you were expecting...but he does just enough that you think he's somehow going to do more. 

When Cammy signed, we figured it would turn ugly for him around season 3 or 4 of his 5-year deal.  Unfortunately for us, it happened in the former.  I can't imagine what his year will be next season if he is still here.

Cangi and Dano actually made a decent point last night.  The Devils were actually a playoff bound team by mid November and the turning point came in that western road trip where we lost to Anaheim after being up 2-0 late in the second period.  The game before was the OT win in Dallas and it seemed as though that was the high point of the season.  It's amazing how things can flip so suddenly in the course of a season.

Devils being bad was expected, but yeah this is worse than originally thought.  As long as we keep developing in the right direction I won't be too concerned for our future. 

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Just now, DevsMan84 said:

When Cammy signed, we figured it would turn ugly for him around season 3 or 4 of his 5-year deal.  Unfortunately for us, it happened in the former.  I can't imagine what his year will be next season if he is still here.

Cangi and Dano actually made a decent point last night.  The Devils were actually a playoff bound team by mid November and the turning point came in that western road trip where we lost to Anaheim after being up 2-0 late in the second period.  The game before was the OT win in Dallas and it seemed as though that was the high point of the season.  It's amazing how things can flip so suddenly in the course of a season.

Devils being bad was expected, but yeah this is worse than originally thought.  As long as we keep developing in the right direction I won't be too concerned for our future. 

Yeah, goes without saying that Cam was a "right now" signing, without worrying too much down the line.  Based on last season, even with missing a ton of games, it made sense to think that Year 3 wasn't going to be the goes-to-sh!t year...but yeah, it sure was.  And it's scary to think what Year 4 might bring. 

Devils did fatten up on some shaky competition in going 9-3-3 to get things started...and did the same later when they temporarily stabilized their season with a 9-5-1 run that had them at 25-23-10.  And of course, we know that goaltending was a serious issue in November and December...a team like the Devils were never overcoming two sub-.900 save% months from their #1 goalie. 

No matter how I look at this, I don't see a bunch of chokers...just a not very good bunch of players. 

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On 3/26/2017 at 8:02 PM, '7' said:

These are a list of games where the Devils had leads or were tied in the 3rd only to either blow the game completely or lose in an OT/SO and squander a point. I have no idea if someone has compiled a list like this before but I have never seen such a team so psychologiclaly fragile and afraid as the Devils when they are tied or ahead in the 3rd. They are like a collective team of Armando Benitez's. 

10/20 Boston - (lose lead and game in 3rd, winning goal scored with under 2 min to go)

10/28 Chicago (lose point in 3rd, lose in OT. Hossa scores with under 3 min to go. Hawks win in OT) 

11/17 Anaheim (tied in 3rd. Lose on Kesler goal with under 4 min to go)

11/26 Pittsburgh (Lose point. Crosby ties it with 15 seconds to go. Lose in SO)

12/18 NYR (Lose point. Rags ties it with 1:30 to go. We lose in shootout)

1/12 Oilers - (Lead in 3rd. Oilers tie it with 7 min to go, we lose in OT)

2/3 Calgary - (Lead 3-2 in 3rd. Flames tie it with 13 min to go. Flames win in OT)

2/25 Rangers - (Lead 3-2 in 3rd. Rags score with 4 min to go. Rags win in OT)

2/27 Canadiens - (Lead 3-1 in 3rd. Schneider gives up 2 garbage goals, tying goal with 50 seconds left. Lose in OT)

3/2 Capitals - (tied in 3rd. Caps score with 13 min to go. Game over)

3/4 Bruins - (Tied in 3rd. Spooner scores with 13 min to go. Game over)

3/9 Avalanche (Tied in 3rd. Avs score with 1 minute to go. Game Over)

3/25 - Hurricanes (Tied in 3rd. Canes score with 10 to go. Game Over)

3/26 - Stars (Lead in 3rd. Stars score with 6 to go. Stars win in OT)

 

I have never seen such a list of continuous gag jobs. I mean this is hard to do even if you try!!

I actually glean something positive from this; what business did we, one of the top 4 worst teams in the league, have in going into the later stages of games with leads on some of these teams? Chicago? Anaheim? Pittsburgh? New York twice? Edmonton? Boston twice? Washington?

We have no business beating those teams, not when you look at our roster and you look at theirs. Props to Schneider, the kids, and our vets for keeping things competitive against some of the league's best teams. Teams that have mentally checked out don't get into line brawls like we've seen 3 of in the past 2 weeks. They're still showing fight and effort right to the end. My respect for players like Palmieri, Zajac, Hall, Wood, Bennett, has gone up as I watch them ratcheting up their play and maintaining a playoff-like intensity in some of the games down this last stretch, even in the face of known failure. Everyone knows we're out of the playoffs, and yet these guys and most of the kids have only played harder and more intense the last few weeks.

But we lost those games and have had a bad season because we're a bad team, simple as that. It's a miracle we've barely been blown out in losses this season. Everyone in the locker room knows the sum of all our parts isn't good enough, but they're still plugging away. There's something to be said about that.

Edited by DJ Eco
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