New York Mets 2017 Season Thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Unfortunately, I think Sandy is really going to botch the whole seller thing horribly...hope I'm wrong.

re:  Reyes, the problems remain the same:  he's now bad in the field and even with this surge, he still has an OB% under .300.  He's just not going represent much of an upgrade for most teams.  

Edited July 20, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Some rumors going around that Sandy could possibly move deGrom (I'll believe that when I see it)...as much as I don't want to see him dealt (unless it's for an overwhelming overpayment), his career splits are interesting...he is MUCH better at home than on the road:

48 home starts:  2.02 ERA, .553 OPS against

47 road stars:  3.87 ERA, .711 OPS against

Almost makes me wonder if the team that would deal for him would wind up being disappointed...his overall numbers probably won't be as good with his new team as they are here.  If I'm another team, I think I'm VERY cautious about giving up a boatload for Jacob.  I think if anything, just keep him...he's been damned near lights-out at Citi, and is still decent on the road...and if Sandy can ever build an offense that doesn't fvck over its starting pitchers (Jacob has a 2.76 ERA in 29 career no-decisions), this guy can definitely flirt with 20 wins.   

Edited July 20, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

10 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Some rumors going around that Sandy could possibly move deGrom (I'll believe that when I see it)...as much as I don't want to see him dealt (unless it's for an overwhelming overpayment), his career splits are interesting...he is MUCH better at home than on the road:

48 home starts:  2.02 ERA, .553 OPS against

47 road stars:  3.87 ERA, .711 OPS against

Almost makes me wonder if the team that would deal for him would wind up being disappointed...his overall numbers probably won't as good with his new team as they are here.  If I'm another team, I think I'm VERY cautious about giving up a boatload for Jacob.  I think if anything, just keep him...he's been damned near lights-out at Citi, and is still decent on the road...and if Sandy can ever build an offense that doesn't fvck over its starting pitchers (Jacob has a 2.76 ERA in 29 career no-decisions), this guy can definitely flirt with 20 wins.   

That is pretty interesting actually. I had no idea. It was never even that apparent to me over the course of the year...it felt like he was pretty much the same everywhere.

I don't think we can move him under any circumstances. He's really our only workhorse dependable player. Not just pitcher. Player! He's the only one with nerves of steel, guts, brains. He defies the injury plagued woefulness that is Mets baseball.

The only way I may budge on this is if we get two young almost ready starters in the return with high ceilings + a quality relief prospect. Plus a catching prospect. I would want something absurd.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I with you '7'.  Either it's a massive overpayment or he stays.  Even then I'll hate to see him leave.  He's by far and away the easiest Met to root for. 

['7']

3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I with you '7'.  Either it's a massive overpayment or he stays.  Even then I'll hate to see him leave.  He's by far and away the easiest Met to root for. 

No doubt. But hey DeLand Florida OWED the Mets.

[NJDevs4978]

Despite another useless win the hits just keep on comin'

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Heh heh, no Met win comes without a price somewhere. 

Nice outing for Lugo...all things considered, he's been pretty good since coming back.  Five out of his seven starts this season have been decent to good. 

Really a shame how mightily Blevins has struggled lately...doesn't look like anyone will be as eager to overpay for him as they would've been just a few weeks ago.  I'm actually starting to think our CPU (Comatose Passive Uncreative) GM might not do a single thing at the deadline.  That would require work and - gasp! - effort.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

8 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Heh heh, no Met win comes without a price somewhere. 

Nice outing for Lugo...all things considered, he's been pretty good since coming back.  Five out of his seven starts this season have been decent to good. 

Really a shame how mightily Blevins has struggled lately...doesn't look like anyone will be as eager to overpay for him as they would've been just a few weeks ago.  I'm actually starting to think our CPU (Comatose Passive Uncreative) GM might not do a single thing at the deadline.  That would require work and - gasp! - effort.

I'm about ready to just schedule every young Mets pitcher for elective TJ surgery this offseason to get it over with. Let's just get it over with in one fell swoop

Indeed, sucks about Blevins. But also Terry abused the hell out of his arm for a good chunk of the season and now he's breaking down in July because of this. Was sort of bound to happen.

Edited July 21, 2017 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

Jesus Terry managing as if there's no tomorrow and we're in a playoff hunt trying to squeeze a five-out save from Reed pitching a third straight day and he obviously had nothing so he had to pull him  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Same old fvcking Wheeler.  This guy will never put it all together.  Especially if Dan Worthless sticks around as the pitching "coach".  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Awesome Zack...walk the fvcking pitcher to lead off the second.  Unbelievable.

[NJDevs4978]

lol and they come back from the 5-0 hole with Wlimer hitting a walkoff.  Trying to fool Sandy into not selling

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I think even Passive knows that anything that happens in the next week or so is too little too late...they've been hovering in this 5-to-8 games under .500 territory forever.  And of course, Sandy could've made moves to fortify this team quite some time ago (like other teams have), but of course, he didn't, so this team'a weaknesses are always waiting to rear their ugly heads.  

Some are starting to make a big deal out of Reyes, which I find beyond comical...since when did the first three months of any given season not matter?!  

['7']

Well his pitch count was still under 100...but shame we couldn't get Montero out on a good note as he lets of a HR to Chapman to put the A's ahead 3-2 in the 7th. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

15 hours ago, '7' said:

Well his pitch count was still under 100...but shame we couldn't get Montero out on a good note as he lets of a HR to Chapman to put the A's ahead 3-2 in the 7th. 

At this point, the Mets might as well keep Montero in the rotation for the rest of the season...especially with Crap Wheeler's innings limit coming up...and as Wheeler's 1.59 WHIP suggests, his 86.1 IP to date this season have hardly been of the easy variety.  He's also been pretty lousy over the balance of his last six starts.  Not that I can get excited about anything Montero does anymore...but like we've noted, as least he's been doing SOMETHING lately...amazing what happens when the bar is set as low as it can go. 

Gotta give the Mets some credit I guess, in that they're doing everything that they can to prove to Sandy that they absolutely positively no-way-in-hell have a magical run in them.  Hell, just look at the month-by-month records:

April:  10-14

May:  13-15

June:  14-14

July:  8-9 

This team hasn't even managed a winning month. 

And let's face it, because it's obvious now...Cespedes is a lazy stiff...a fat cat who got his money and is now going to be an insufferable a$$hole because of it.  The Mets give you $110 million (HUGE money for them), and you friggin' bring up wanting to finish your career with the A's?!  fvck you!  I usually don't make that big of a deal out of player quotes, but goddamn, that is complete horsesh!t...by virtue of what amounts to a mega-deal here, the Mets are paying him quite the penny to be the man here, something of a leader...and instead, now it's become obvious how a guy with Cespedes' talent manages to play for four teams in his in his first four MLB seasons.  Only the Mets are stuck with him now...maybe if he's here in Year 4 of his contract, it pays off, because he'll be playing for another deal.  As much as I was afraid that this might happen with him, for some reason I didn't think that it would...but it has.  And it sucks.   

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Tebow has actually improved big-time since being promoted to A+ ball...he's slashing .317/.398/.549, after hitting his 4th HR in 25 GP. 

I can't honestly say if this is a good thing or a bad thing.  If he's helping to make money for the franchise, I guess there are worse things.  I just worry that the Mets (you can SO see the Mets doing this) will actually start to think of him as a legit major-league prospect...forget the fact that he'll soon be 30 and that he's playing with kids, and that A+ ball is a LOOOOOOOOONG way from the majors...I can see him actually getting major-league ABs come September, which will almost be insulting...yes, the Mets will be just as out of it then as they are now (probably more), but geez, save it for Rosario and Smith-types.  I don't need to see Tebow go 2-for-25 with 13 K or something like that.   

Of course, we're assuming that Rosario will be able to suit up with the big club this season...because if this isn't the icing on a fvcking sh!t-filled cursed cake, then I don't know what is:

https://www.milb.com/milb/news/report-top-mets-prospect-rosario-hospitalized/c-243942258/t-185364810

------------------------------------------------

Dilson Herrera on the DL for the second time this season.  Slashing an underwhelming .264/.312/.397 with AAA Louisville (though he's been better since 5/28...he entered that day with a .222/.277/.333 slash).  Not much to say...to this point, between the very meh overall offensive numbers and the DL stints, this has been a pretty lost year for him.  He's already entering his age 24 season in 2018...time is still on his side for now, but his seemingly fast track to the majors has really hit a serious detour.   

Edited July 24, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Well it was nice while it lasted for the two months he was actually decent...now it's back to same sh!t different year

 

['7']

13 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

At this point, the Mets might as well keep Montero in the rotation for the rest of the season...especially with Crap Wheeler's innings limit coming up...and as Wheeler's 1.59 WHIP suggests, his 86.1 IP to date this season have hardly been of the easy variety.  He's also been pretty lousy over the balance of his last six starts.  Not that I can get excited about anything Montero does anymore...but like we've noted, as least he's been doing SOMETHING lately...amazing what happens when the bar is set as low as it can go. 

Gotta give the Mets some credit I guess, in that they're doing everything that they can to prove to Sandy that they absolutely positively no-way-in-hell have a magical run in them.  Hell, just look at the month-by-month records:

April:  10-14

May:  13-15

June:  14-14

July:  8-9 

This team hasn't even managed a winning month. 

And let's face it, because it's obvious now...Cespedes is a lazy stiff...a fat cat who got his money and is now going to be an insufferable a$$hole because of it.  The Mets give you $110 million (HUGE money for them), and you friggin' bring up wanting to finish your career with the A's?!  fvck you!  I usually don't make that big of a deal out of player quotes, but goddamn, that is complete horsesh!t...by virtue of what amounts to a mega-deal here, the Mets are paying him quite the penny to be the man here, something of a leader...and instead, now it's become obvious how a guy with Cespedes' talent manages to play for four teams in his in his first four MLB seasons.  Only the Mets are stuck with him now...maybe if he's here in Year 4 of his contract, it pays off, because he'll be playing for another deal.  As much as I was afraid that this might happen with him, for some reason I didn't think that it would...but it has.  And it sucks.   

I'm ok with that. I still don't ever think he will amount to much a the major league level simply because he just doesn't think the game as a pitcher should. The stuff is there...it's always been there. But to me he's looking pretty much like a Roger Cedeno on the mound. He's got the ability but he doesn't have the baseball IQ. Nor does he have the pitching coach that can help him get his head together and truly fix him. I think Leo Mazzone would have a tough time getting Montero straight, though he'd probably have more success than Warthen

The Cespedes comments were a bit weird. Overall he's just a weird, oft injured player who you can never rely on because every next step a quad can blow and that's that. I'm afraid the balance of his contract is going to be just what we've seen this year. In and out of the lineup, erratic fielding, running gingerly. We're always going to be searching for a way to get him right (Drink more water, run differently, stretch differently) and none of it will work. 

Go figure, Cespedes turns into a pumpkin while Turner and Murphy are Ruth and Gehrig. Of course.

['7']

5 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Well it was nice while it lasted for the two months he was actually decent...now it's back to same sh!t different year

 

 

First time I've ever heard of a "Stress Reaction". Sounds like some kind of mental condition Mets fans have been suffering since April.

I recall way back when, maybe when his name was being mentioned as coming back to the Mets in the Beltran trade, some scouts were saying he's pretty much just going to end up a reliever. They could be right.

Edited July 25, 2017 by '7'

['7']

Does Clayton Richard have a hideous delivery or what. It's like he's literally trying to damage every muscle, tendon & ligament in his left arm AND throw out his back all at once.

Another terrific outing by deGrom. Padres are not the 27 Yankees but he continues to go out there and pitch with pride, heart, and smarts.

Cespedes with an RBI triple that nearly made it over the wall. Maybe, just maybe he could be coming out of his slumber? They promptly walked him the next two times.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 hours ago, '7' said:

First time I've ever heard of a "Stress Reaction". Sounds like some kind of mental condition Mets fans have been suffering since April.

I recall way back when, maybe when his name was being mentioned as coming back to the Mets in the Beltran trade, some scouts were saying he's pretty much just going to end up a reliever. They could be right.

I've just about given up on Wheeler myself, in any capacity...who knows, maybe he becomes the next Al Leiter and suddenly becomes a solid starting pitcher after spending much of his mid-20s injured...but that seems like a longshot. 

7 hours ago, '7' said:

Does Clayton Richard have a hideous delivery or what. It's like he's literally trying to damage every muscle, tendon & ligament in his left arm AND throw out his back all at once.

Another terrific outing by deGrom. Padres are not the 27 Yankees but he continues to go out there and pitch with pride, heart, and smarts.

Cespedes with an RBI triple that nearly made it over the wall. Maybe, just maybe he could be coming out of his slumber? They promptly walked him the next two times.

Insane how good deGrom has been...if anything, he's been hiding how awful the rest of this team is...these numbers over his last 8 games are pretty godly:

8 starts (deGrom is 8-0), 61.2 IP, 39 H, 11 ER, 7 HR (the only real "blemish"), 12 BB, 58 K, 1.61 ERA, 0.83 WHIP, .180/.222/.313 opponent slash. 

On the season, that pronounced home/road split continues for Jacob:  2.27 ERA (2.02 ERA career) in 10 home starts (6-2 record), 4.34 ERA (3.74 ERA career) in 10 road starts (6-1 record).  You wonder if any teams that ever toy with the idea about adding deGrom notice that. 

Anyway, deGrom has now made 48 career home and 48 career road starts...basically, he's a complete beast at home (about as good as you can be, really), and pretty good on the road (hasn't made much difference in terms of his personal W-L):

HOME:  22-12 record, 312 IP, 229 H, 79 R, 70 ER, 18 HR, 87 BB, 352 K, 2.02 ERA, 1.013 WHIP

AWAY:  20-13 record, 301 IP, 292 H, 128 R, 125 ER, 39 HR, 72 BB, 292 K, 3.74 ERA, 1.209 WHIP

Road deGrom would still be a pretty solid pitcher...not too many teams that wouldn't sign up for those numbers. 

 

Gotta admit, I'm amazed that Passive Uncreative is actually bringing up AA righty Chris Flexen to take Wheeler's spot...would've been so easy to just slot Pill there.  I was for Pill getting a shot earlier, when Sandy was trying to fill holes with discarded scrap-heap no-chance zilches like Tommy Milone, but Pill is what he is...and whatever AAA magic (luck?) he had earlier this year seems to be wearing off...Pill's back in a BP role for now, which is fine.  Flexen is shredding AA right now...guy has a 0.719 WHIP in seven AA starts.  Give him a couple of starts and see how it goes.  Mets have to start looking at other arms...let's face it, Plan A is history...they have to seriously think hard about moving on from Harvey (5.02 ERA in his last 30 starts, not to mention he's an annoying me-me-me drama queen) and Wheeler (who just seems like it's never quite going to happen for him).  Matz is iffy too (can the guy stay on the fvcking field), but he's a lefty and he's definitely got talent...him I stick with. 

 

['7']

13 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I've just about given up on Wheeler myself, in any capacity...who knows, maybe he becomes the next Al Leiter and suddenly becomes a solid starting pitcher after spending much of his mid-20s injured...but that seems like a longshot. 

Insane how good deGrom has been...if anything, he's been hiding how awful the rest of this team is...these numbers over his last 8 games are pretty godly:

8 starts (deGrom is 8-0), 61.2 IP, 39 H, 11 ER, 7 HR (the only real "blemish"), 12 BB, 58 K, 1.61 ERA, 0.83 WHIP, .180/.222/.313 opponent slash. 

On the season, that pronounced home/road split continues for Jacob:  2.27 ERA (2.02 ERA career) in 10 home starts (6-2 record), 4.34 ERA (3.74 ERA career) in 10 road starts (6-1 record).  You wonder if any teams that ever toy with the idea about adding deGrom notice that. 

Anyway, deGrom has now made 48 career home and 48 career road starts...basically, he's a complete beast at home (about as good as you can be, really), and pretty good on the road (hasn't made much difference in terms of his personal W-L):

HOME:  22-12 record, 312 IP, 229 H, 79 R, 70 ER, 18 HR, 87 BB, 352 K, 2.02 ERA, 1.013 WHIP

AWAY:  20-13 record, 301 IP, 292 H, 128 R, 125 ER, 39 HR, 72 BB, 292 K, 3.74 ERA, 1.209 WHIP

Road deGrom would still be a pretty solid pitcher...not too many teams that wouldn't sign up for those numbers. 

 

Gotta admit, I'm amazed that Passive Uncreative is actually bringing up AA righty Chris Flexen to take Wheeler's spot...would've been so easy to just slot Pill there.  I was for Pill getting a shot earlier, when Sandy was trying to fill holes with discarded scrap-heap no-chance zilches like Tommy Milone, but Pill is what he is...and whatever AAA magic (luck?) he had earlier this year seems to be wearing off...Pill's back in a BP role for now, which is fine.  Flexen is shredding AA right now...guy has a 0.719 WHIP in seven AA starts.  Give him a couple of starts and see how it goes.  Mets have to start looking at other arms...let's face it, Plan A is history...they have to seriously think hard about moving on from Harvey (5.02 ERA in his last 30 starts, not to mention he's an annoying me-me-me drama queen) and Wheeler (who just seems like it's never quite going to happen for him).  Matz is iffy too (can the guy stay on the fvcking field), but he's a lefty and he's definitely got talent...him I stick with. 

 

Yea something about Pill just screams Dillon Gee AAAA just another guy fill in. The type that every org has. Not a sexy option. Interesting to see Sandy hotshot him to the majors from AA just like that. Usually it's a super conservative approach with some BS excuse about rushing or too much pressure on the kid. Flexen is striking out a batter every inning, he has exhibited good control. Why not?

Regarding Harvey. I'm close to saying sayonara to him as well, but I guess they found that the muscles in his right arm and shoulder had weakened after the past two surgeries and that may what was causing his poor performance. Let's see if he can regain his strength and show some semblance of the old Harvey. I still have a small glimmer of hope for him.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 hours ago, '7' said:

Yea something about Pill just screams Dillon Gee AAAA just another guy fill in. The type that every org has. Not a sexy option. Interesting to see Sandy hotshot him to the majors from AA just like that. Usually it's a super conservative approach with some BS excuse about rushing or too much pressure on the kid. Flexen is striking out a batter every inning, he has exhibited good control. Why not?

Regarding Harvey. I'm close to saying sayonara to him as well, but I guess they found that the muscles in his right arm and shoulder had weakened after the past two surgeries and that may what was causing his poor performance. Let's see if he can regain his strength and show some semblance of the old Harvey. I still have a small glimmer of hope for him.

Yeah Pill is what he is...he gets a chance when a whole lot of things go wrong (which of course, they often do around here).  He's kind of like your Plan F...basically the very bottom of your organizational depth, in terms of guys who are sorta kinda ready to step in.  Sometimes a guy like that gets a little hot and performs over his head, and you wind up getting 3-5 solid outings from him in a row.  That's the most you could ever ask for from a guy like Pill, and that's if everything breaks absolutely right for him (think lots of hard-hit outs, etc). 

I'll believe it when I see it, re:  Harvey ever showing a semblance of what he was...the sample size of poor performances is just too large now, and sure, he's had physical issues, but Harvey never struck me as a guy who will find a way to overcome adversity (the way deGrom does).  I also think he and this organization are at odds and have been for a long time.  Feels like they need to move on from each other sooner than later. 

Lugo's numbers aren't overwhelming, but he's turned in six quality starts in eight starts (Mets have gone 6-2 in Lugo's starts this season)...that's really all you can ask for from him...he was never projected to be dominant, or even to be a sure-thing major leaguer.  But for the most part, he keeps his team in the game and gives them a chance to win. 

Mets pull to within four games under .500 yet again at 47-51...unfortunately, this has been the tragic number, when things instantly go to sh!t for a while...when they were 23-27, they lost six out of their next eight; the Mets got to 30-34, then promptly lost seven of eight...they then got to 38-42, then lost five of six.  And it's like you've pointed out...the pitching just isn't there to go on a sustained run...since deGrom has gone on his tear, the Mets are 8-0 in his games, and 10-18 whenever anyone else starts.  Pretty much says it all.

Even if we entertain any idea of the Mets ever getting back into this thing...right now the D'Backs and Rockies are on pace for 92 wins (we'll make it 93).  For the Mets to get to 94 wins, they'll have to go 47-17.  If they somehow went 9-1 on this trip AND swept the Rockies, then maybe I can start to think about more than Passive waking up long enough to deal enough players to make room for Rosario and Smith.  But not until then.  What's sad is that the Rockies have given the Mets every last chance to make a run at them...starting with that 8-game losing streak, the Rockies are 11-18 since 6/21 (the D'Backs are 13-16, and just 7-15 in their 22).  Mets have gone 16-12 since that date...obviously not bad overall, but that kind of sums them up...just not capable of doing enough.  D'Backs and Rockies can't possibly have left the door open any wider than they have.      

[NJDevs4978]

And another possible destination for Cabrera goes by the boards as Boston trades for Eduardo Nunez while Rip Van Sandy is trying to justify the last two weeks being a reason not to sell

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

And another possible destination for Cabrera goes by the boards as Boston trades for Eduardo Nunez while Rip Van Sandy is trying to justify the last two weeks being a reason not to sell

I think he's looking at the recent struggles of both the D'Backs and the Rockies and actually thinking that the Mets somehow have a chance.  If Syndergaard and Harvey were about to come back 100% and looked like they'd BOTH be ready to go on a tear, that's the ONLY circumstance where I could very begrudgingly say "Alright, fvck it, go for it"...I wouldn't really be happy about it, but at least I could kinda-sorta understand.  But not right now.  They proof is there...deGrom doesn't start, this team loses an awful lot.  Trying to make a run with Montero, Wheeler, and possibly Flexen taking up two slots in the rotation is an impossible sell.