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LittleBallofHate

Devils to be Affiliated with the ECHL Adirondack Thunder

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I should mention that this is not yet confirmed but should be tomorrow...  

 

Gordon Woodworth‏ @GWTWgolfer 

@ECHLThunder new coach is Brad Tapper. New NHL affiliate is @NJDevils with unofficial agreement with @TBLightning. Press conference Tues. 11

 

Adirondack Thunder‏Verified account @ECHLThunder

We got tired of saying we'd make an announcement "soon" so we decided to actually do it! Tuesday - 11 AM - @CoolInsArena - Be There!

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1 hour ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

Anyone know what this means? 

Means exactly what it says.

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Every team that got a Northman as a logo is a good team to me ! 

 

VIIIIIIIIKIIIIIIIIIIING @#!!!

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12 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

Anyone know what this means? 

It means Appleby will have a place to tend goal this season.  :evil:

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It is confirmed! 

Adirondack Thunder‏ Verified account @ECHLThunder  

Announcement #1 - We are proud to announce our NHL Affiliation with the @NJDevils!

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I really don't care since it's not my team but I'll never understand why when some of these minor league teams move that they don't just rename the team to something that actually has to do with the local community. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, moustic said:

Every team that got a Northman as a logo is a good team to me ! 

 

VIIIIIIIIKIIIIIIIIIIING @#!!!

That Viking is awesome compared to Bing's new cartoon (primary) jersey... if you squint, the viking horns and the bend of the red beard almost look like the "J" portion of the Devils logo... 

qNOEiQjN?format=jpg&name=600x314

Edited by LittleBallofHate

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Wait until Hugh Weber turns it into an adorable little keebler elf on a plain stripeless jersey (well except 1 stripe honoring the Newark Bull$hits)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LittleBallofHate said:

That Viking is awesome compared to Bing's new cartoon (primary) jersey... if you squint, the viking horns and the bend of the red beard almost look like the "J" portion of the Devils logo... 

qNOEiQjN?format=jpg&name=600x314

 They just changed the beard color, tape on the stick and font lol 

200px-Stockton_Thunder_logo.svg.png

Edited by Satans Hockey

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They still have thunder there, so they're all good. 

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Hey it's the Boardwalk Bullies. They should buy the team and move them back to AC. Or they'll just continue to disregard our state and continue to support and affiliate with New York projects. Sounds great.

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2 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

Hey it's the Boardwalk Bullies. They should buy the team and move them back to AC. Or they'll just continue to disregard our state and continue to support and affiliate with New York projects. Sounds great.

I really don't know why you keep pushing this narrative where you are trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.  There is a reason why the Bullies moved; they were drawing in 1-2K crowds in an arena that holds over 10K for hockey.  That was even after they won the Kelly Cup in 2003.

Why should the Devils pour money towards a team in a dying city that is solidly in Flyers country (and will always be no matter what minor league team we plop down there) that failed the first time around?

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I really don't know why you keep pushing this narrative where you are trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.  There is a reason why the Bullies moved; they were drawing in 1-2K crowds in an arena that holds over 10K for hockey.  That was even after they won the Kelly Cup in 2003.

Why should the Devils pour money towards a team in a dying city that is solidly in Flyers country (and will always be no matter what minor league team we plop down there) that failed the first time around?

Very valid point. 

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There is no need for the Devils to have their minor league affiliates in NJ.  Where this team misses the boat is their outreach to the youth hockey programs throughout the state.  They've gotten a little better in recent years, but still lag way behind the Rags.

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10 hours ago, Chuck the Duck said:

There is no need for the Devils to have their minor league affiliates in NJ.  Where this team misses the boat is their outreach to the youth hockey programs throughout the state.  They've gotten a little better in recent years, but still lag way behind the Rags.

I play beer league at Protec in Somerset and I cannot stand seeing the blue Rangerstown banners around the rink.  Granted there are some Devils signs and whatnot, but the Rangers do a great job pushing out into NJ.

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11 hours ago, Chuck the Duck said:

There is no need for the Devils to have their minor league affiliates in NJ.  Where this team misses the boat is their outreach to the youth hockey programs throughout the state.  They've gotten a little better in recent years, but still lag way behind the Rags.

This is very true and probably a more effective way of getting kids to become Devils fans.  I agree with Crisis and yourself that there are many rinks in even Northern NJ that have little to no Devils affiliation but there are tons of Rangers signs, banners, and sponsored clinics.

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1 hour ago, Crisis said:

I play beer league at Protec in Somerset and I cannot stand seeing the blue Rangerstown banners around the rink.  Granted there are some Devils signs and whatnot, but the Rangers do a great job pushing out into NJ.

My kid played games on Sunday mornings out of there last season.  The worst part was the Learn to Skate program that came on the ice right after us was sponsored by the Rags, not the Devils, even though it was taking place here in NJ.  It's ridiculous and, honestly, is something the NHL shouldn't allow provided the Devils are willing to run programs themselves out of those local rinks - which they should be willing to do and are stupid if they aren't. 

The Learn to Play initiative is now league wide, and each NHL team runs weekly clinics in rinks throughout their region where the kids get the gear for free if they attend a certain number of sessions.  The Devils ran programs out of 8+ different rinks in NJ, none in NY.  The Rags ran their program out of 2 rinks in NJ that I know of - Skylands in Stockholm and Protect in Somerset - as well as numerous ones in NY.  They should stay the F out of Jersey as long as the Devils are willing to put on these programs for kids in the local area.    

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On 08/14/2017 at 6:51 PM, DevsMan84 said:

I really don't know why you keep pushing this narrative where you are trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.  There is a reason why the Bullies moved; they were drawing in 1-2K crowds in an arena that holds over 10K for hockey.  That was even after they won the Kelly Cup in 2003.

Why should the Devils pour money towards a team in a dying city that is solidly in Flyers country (and will always be no matter what minor league team we plop down there) that failed the first time around?

Everything you said is wrong. But before I get to any of that, it's all beside the point. The Devils as our only major professional sports team should be dedicated to growing the sport in the state at all levels, and should be investing their money within state lines. Period. Unless it makes a noticeable dent in their wallet, that's what their role should be.

According to hockeydb, the Bullies drew between 3200-3700 their first 3 seasons. It wasn't until their last season that average attendance fell to around 2500. According to Wikipedia, Boardwalk Hall held under 7,000 for hockey. Binghamton drew marginally better for the Senators in a higher league.  Adirondack didn't break 3,000 in either of their first two seasons.

 But hit the brakes a second. You have a problem with Atlantic City, a town within our state getting an affiliate because there are more Flyers fans down there, but you're totally fine with putting them up in Rangers territory? Before you do anything else, you're gonna have to rationalize this, because my head is absolutely spinning.

Also, we know there is a sizable minority of Devils fans in South Jersey. Just by virtue of being in the state you have the opportunity to bring  some fans aboard down there. There may never be more Devils fans than Flyers fans down there, but it's incredibly dumb to cede half of the state, where there are Devils fans even with zero marketing or tv exposure.  And are you suggesting to me the Devils are attempting to build fanbases in Binghamton and Glenn Falls?

So, the team drew better in Atlantic City than they do in Adirondack, a team firmly in Rangers country. There seems to go the foundation to your argument,  yet again, if you want to talk about a square peg.

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5 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

Everything you said is wrong. But before I get to any of that, it's all beside the point. The Devils as our only major professional sports team should be dedicated to growing the sport in the state at all levels, and should be investing their money within state lines. Period. Unless it makes a noticeable dent in their wallet, that's what their role should be.

According to hockeydb, the Bullies drew between 3200-3700 their first 3 seasons. It wasn't until their last season that average attendance fell to around 2500. According to Wikipedia, Boardwalk Hall held under 7,000 for hockey. Binghamton drew marginally better for the Senators in a higher league.  Adirondack didn't break 3,000 in either of their first two seasons.

 But hit the brakes a second. You have a problem with Atlantic City, a town within our state getting an affiliate because there are more Flyers fans down there, but you're totally fine with putting them up in Rangers territory? Before you do anything else, you're gonna have to rationalize this, because my head is absolutely spinning.

Also, we know there is a sizable minority of Devils fans in South Jersey. Just by virtue of being in the state you have the opportunity to bring  some fans aboard down there. There may never be more Devils fans than Flyers fans down there, but it's incredibly dumb to cede half of the state, where there are Devils fans even with zero marketing or tv exposure.  And are you suggesting to me the Devils are attempting to build fanbases in Binghamton and Glenn Falls?

So, the team drew better in Atlantic City than they do in Adirondack, a team firmly in Rangers country. There seems to go the foundation to your argument,  yet again, if you want to talk about a square peg.

Your seeming obsession with making SNJ into the US capital of everything that is good is beyond astonishing.

1) It did make a noticeable dent in their wallet with the Trenton Devils.  That's why the team doesn't exist anymore.

2) The Bullies page on Wikipedia is incorrect.  As you said it is listing about 6,900-ish as capacity for Bullies games but on the actual Boardwalk Hall page they list 10,500 for hockey and even the Press of AC is listing that as closer to the capacity (http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/communities/atlantic-city_pleasantville_brigantine/professional-hockey-tries-boardwalk-hall-on-for-size-again-in/article_73688fa8-fd08-11df-b04c-001cc4c03286.html).

3) That means either the Bullies Wikipedia page is incorrect (not uncommon for Wikipedia to get facts wrong), or that they curtained or blocked off seating areas of the arena.

4) To call Binghamton Rangers country is a bit of a stretch.  Quite frankly I am not even 100% sure which team they fall under in terms of telecast territory.  Regardless, it is a 3 hour drive from Binghamton to MSG.  It is a 3 hour and 15 minute drive from Glen Falls to MSG.  From Boardwalk Hall to WFC, it is an hour.  Point I am making is that even if Binghamton is Rangers country, it is a lot harder for them to go to games at MSG than it is for Flyers fans near AC to go to a Flyers game.  Same goes for those in Glen Falls.  I know you are going to rationalize this by saying you and your buddies go to NJ games all the time and drive 1-2 hours each game, but you are more the exception rather than the rule and you are still closer than Binghamton fans have to go to see the Rangers at MSG.

5) Binghamton fans took to the Senators fans pretty well.  They played in front of small crowds, but the arena is almost 1/3 the size of TUC in Albany so they had a better capacity %.

6) I think you are overestimating the "sizeable minority" schtick (again).  There are indeed pockets of Devils fans in SNJ, but not enough to support an AHL or ECHL team.  If there were, then where were those fans when Trenton was drawing small crowds in a city that is in less firm Flyers country than AC was?  Why do you think a Devils branded ECHL team in AC would work when a team that wasn't Devils branded, who also won the Kelly Cup, had trouble drawing crowds?

7) AC is a dying city anyways and an awful fit for any professional sport team.  Every one that was placed down there in the last 20 years failed.  Do you think with 4 major casino's now closed in the last 2-3 years and with crime and city ineptitude still running rampant would make things easier now than when the Bullies were in town?

If the owners gave completely no fvcks about any team they own losing money then they would have placed a team down in AC or Trenton already.  However, they do as evidenced by moving the team from Albany with a more modern and larger arena, to Binghamton with a smaller and older arena but with a more passionate fanbase and sweetheart deal.

The best way to grow the fan base would be what Chuck said; to grow the youth hockey outreach program.  Right now that is pitiful compared to the Rangers up here in NNJ.  Get them young, expose them to Devils players who would go to these rinks here and there to help the kids and get them hooked.

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As far as I'm concerned, all teams should have their AHL affiliates super close, so when players need to go up/down, you have a better chance of doing it quickly. By that logic, sure, having the affiliate in New Jersey makes sense. 

But, we should note, New Jersey isn't exactly Hockeytown USA. Our NHL team had the 4th worst attendance in the league last year, only the Islanders, Coyotes and Carolina did worse. We went to the Finals in 2012 with the 7th worst attendance. We won a Cup in 2003 with the 8th worst attendance. And so on. 

Of course, the Flyers, who play super close to Atlantic City, closer than the Devils do probably, are routinely in the top 5-6 in attendance and average greater than 100% capacity every year. 

http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance

Why would anyone running an AHL team, concerned with business and attendance and such, think that New Jersey would be a good place to place their team? 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

As far as I'm concerned, all teams should have their AHL affiliates super close, so when players need to go up/down, you have a better chance of doing it quickly. By that logic, sure, having the affiliate in New Jersey makes sense. 

But, we should note, New Jersey isn't exactly Hockeytown USA. Our NHL team had the 4th worst attendance in the league last year, only the Islanders, Coyotes and Carolina did worse. We went to the Finals in 2012 with the 7th worst attendance. We won a Cup in 2003 with the 8th worst attendance. And so on. 

Of course, the Flyers, who play super close to Atlantic City, closer than the Devils do probably, are routinely in the top 5-6 in attendance and average greater than 100% capacity every year. 

http://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance

Why would anyone running an AHL team, concerned with business and attendance and such, think that New Jersey would be a good place to place their team? 

To add to this, Binghamton is actually slightly closer to NJ than Albany ever was. I agree that AHL affiliates should be close, but as long as they are within an 3-4ish hour commute that should work.  This is not like the Flames having their farm team at one point in Newfoundland or when the Hershey Bears used to be the AHL affiliate of the Avalanche.

As for your last statement, totally agree.  Lou and prior owners didn't care that their minor league teams operated constantly in the red as they only cared about the NJ Devils.  These owners, however, do care and they don't want to keep sinking money into a black hole.

Edited by DevsMan84

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13 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Your seeming obsession with making SNJ into the US capital of everything that is good is beyond astonishing.

1) It did make a noticeable dent in their wallet with the Trenton Devils.  That's why the team doesn't exist anymore.

2) The Bullies page on Wikipedia is incorrect.  As you said it is listing about 6,900-ish as capacity for Bullies games but on the actual Boardwalk Hall page they list 10,500 for hockey and even the Press of AC is listing that as closer to the capacity (http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/communities/atlantic-city_pleasantville_brigantine/professional-hockey-tries-boardwalk-hall-on-for-size-again-in/article_73688fa8-fd08-11df-b04c-001cc4c03286.html).

3) That means either the Bullies Wikipedia page is incorrect (not uncommon for Wikipedia to get facts wrong), or that they curtained or blocked off seating areas of the arena.

4) To call Binghamton Rangers country is a bit of a stretch.  Quite frankly I am not even 100% sure which team they fall under in terms of telecast territory.  Regardless, it is a 3 hour drive from Binghamton to MSG.  It is a 3 hour and 15 minute drive from Glen Falls to MSG.  From Boardwalk Hall to WFC, it is an hour.  Point I am making is that even if Binghamton is Rangers country, it is a lot harder for them to go to games at MSG than it is for Flyers fans near AC to go to a Flyers game.  Same goes for those in Glen Falls.  I know you are going to rationalize this by saying you and your buddies go to NJ games all the time and drive 1-2 hours each game, but you are more the exception rather than the rule and you are still closer than Binghamton fans have to go to see the Rangers at MSG.

5) Binghamton fans took to the Senators fans pretty well.  They played in front of small crowds, but the arena is almost 1/3 the size of TUC in Albany so they had a better capacity %.

6) I think you are overestimating the "sizeable minority" schtick (again).  There are indeed pockets of Devils fans in SNJ, but not enough to support an AHL or ECHL team.  If there were, then where were those fans when Trenton was drawing small crowds in a city that is in less firm Flyers country than AC was?  Why do you think a Devils branded ECHL team in AC would work when a team that wasn't Devils branded, who also won the Kelly Cup, had trouble drawing crowds?

7) AC is a dying city anyways and an awful fit for any professional sport team.  Every one that was placed down there in the last 20 years failed.  Do you think with 4 major casino's now closed in the last 2-3 years and with crime and city ineptitude still running rampant would make things easier now than when the Bullies were in town?

If the owners gave completely no fvcks about any team they own losing money then they would have placed a team down in AC or Trenton already.  However, they do as evidenced by moving the team from Albany with a more modern and larger arena, to Binghamton with a smaller and older arena but with a more passionate fanbase and sweetheart deal.

The best way to grow the fan base would be what Chuck said; to grow the youth hockey outreach program.  Right now that is pitiful compared to the Rangers up here in NNJ.  Get them young, expose them to Devils players who would go to these rinks here and there to help the kids and get them hooked.

I'm not from South Jersey. I'd be just as happy if an affiliate somehow ended up in Sussex County, but they belong in the state

Trenton made a noticeable dent because they were last in attendance and the only ECHL team outright owned by the parent club. The Bullies did just fine in attendance.

To call Binghamton Rangers country is not a stretch because most hockey fans in Binghamton are Rangers fans. Period. Same with Glenn Falls. Your argument was that AC was inappropriate because it was Flyers  territory and there aren't enough Devils fans down there to support a Devils affiliate. So that means you either think Rangers fans are somehow more willing to support a rival minor league affiliate, that the B-Devils and Adirondack will successfully create enough Devils fans to support each project, or that Devils fans are going to commute and support the teams by themselves. Which is it?

I'm not in support of affiliates being branded after parent clubs, and we've already gone over the Bullies attendance. If I need to refresh your memory, they drew 3200-3700 for their first 3 years before falling around 2500 their final year. And this was 15 years ago when hockey wasn't nearly as popular as it is today. You cannot rationalize arguing AC's attendance is the reason a team shouldn't go there, considering how much better the Bullies drew than Adirondack does. And Binghamton draws marginally better for the AHL.

Oh boy, urban scholar over here laying down some hard truths. Drop the Reaganomics bullsh!t for a minute and talk to me rationally. First of all, a declining Atlantic City draws millions of tourists a year, is one of the biggest resort destinations on the East Coast, rakes in $3 billion in gaming revenue alone annually, is still the top convention destination on the east coast.  Atlantic City  dead has higher city and regional populations than Glenn Falls.

Glenn Falls seems like a nice town of less than 20,000. I'd actually like to visit myself, I love Upstate New York. But it has zero, absolutely no advantages over Atlantic City. You cannot argue this. Attendance numbers back up the common sense at play here.

I don't disagree thst they need a much better marketing effort across the board. But even if Atlantic City wasn't a better option in just about every way imaginable,  my primary point is that the Devils have a responsiBility of investing in  the state and growing the game here at every level. Period.

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16 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

I'm not from South Jersey. I'd be just as happy if an affiliate somehow ended up in Sussex County, but they belong in the state

Trenton made a noticeable dent because they were last in attendance and the only ECHL team outright owned by the parent club. The Bullies did just fine in attendance.

To call Binghamton Rangers country is not a stretch because most hockey fans in Binghamton are Rangers fans. Period. Same with Glenn Falls. Your argument was that AC was inappropriate because it was Flyers  territory and there aren't enough Devils fans down there to support a Devils affiliate. So that means you either think Rangers fans are somehow more willing to support a rival minor league affiliate, that the B-Devils and Adirondack will successfully create enough Devils fans to support each project, or that Devils fans are going to commute and support the teams by themselves. Which is it?

I'm not in support of affiliates being branded after parent clubs, and we've already gone over the Bullies attendance. If I need to refresh your memory, they drew 3200-3700 for their first 3 years before falling around 2500 their final year. And this was 15 years ago when hockey wasn't nearly as popular as it is today. You cannot rationalize arguing AC's attendance is the reason a team shouldn't go there, considering how much better the Bullies drew than Adirondack does. And Binghamton draws marginally better for the AHL.

Oh boy, urban scholar over here laying down some hard truths. Drop the Reaganomics bullsh!t for a minute and talk to me rationally. First of all, a declining Atlantic City draws millions of tourists a year, is one of the biggest resort destinations on the East Coast, rakes in $3 billion in gaming revenue alone annually, is still the top convention destination on the east coast.  Atlantic City  dead has higher city and regional populations than Glenn Falls.

Glenn Falls seems like a nice town of less than 20,000. I'd actually like to visit myself, I love Upstate New York. But it has zero, absolutely no advantages over Atlantic City. You cannot argue this. Attendance numbers back up the common sense at play here.

I don't disagree thst they need a much better marketing effort across the board. But even if Atlantic City wasn't a better option in just about every way imaginable,  my primary point is that the Devils have a responsiBility of investing in  the state and growing the game here at every level. Period.

1) you are from Toms River and reside now in or around Philly.  Ask anyone and 99 out of 100 would consider that South Jersey.

2) if the Bullies did fine in attendance, why did they move?  They even cited attendance as the issue!

3) way to ignore the size of arena error you had which makes the Bullies attendance even worse.

4) hockey may be more popular today, but AC itself is less popular.  They are seeing declining gambling revenues and tourism numbers each year for the last decade.

5) there are far more things people can do in AC than in Glens Falls or Binghamton.  GF and Binghamton don't have to compete with other entertainment, the beach or gambling for people's dollars.

6) this is also the exact same argument you had when you threw a fit last year when Vegas got their team.  You argued people won't go there to watch hockey but do other things.  Somehow AC is now better?  Which is it?

7) there are more Rangers fans than Devils fans in Binghamton, but that wouldn't deter the team.  WB penguins are closer to philly than Pittsburgh and are in solidly flyers territory.  Where is your whining on that?

8) Adirondack Thunder drew in 2800 average attendance last year, which is 300 higher than the Bullies did in their last year in a smaller arena (4800 compared to 10,500 for Boardwalk hall).

9) lastly yes those Rangers fans are more likely to support them than Flyers fans in AC.  Albany is Rangers country but they got their fair share of Fans in the Rats era.  Binghamton and GF are simply too far away from their parent club for where following the team for local fans is feasible.  Therefore they go to the local team in town.

10) Again you couldn't help but slip in a typical SJW type insult at me.  I'm not doing an urban development thesis, just common sense.

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