Brian Gionta to Captain USA Olympic Team

[NJDevs4978]

On 1/3/2018 at 2:16 PM, thecoffeecake said:

Surprised to see so much hostility over Olympic hockey here. I understand the Olympics themselves are a sh!tty institution, but there are few things that get the hockey world as excited as top end senior level international competition. It's more than worth it from a hockey perspective to shut the NHL schedule down for a few weeks. We only get a handful of these games a generation. I understand the NHL couldn't care less, but a majority of hockey fans would prefer not to miss international hockey for 8+ years because of pettiness between the IOC and the NHL.

I get that it's the fault of both parties, but the NHL wants to monopolize the revenue of this competition, and this was decided when the World Cup was announced, not during any negotiations with the IOC during the last couple years. The NHL would've had to have seen a serious dollar figure for the services of their players for them to go. I hope the players care enough to have this prevented in the next CBA.

They can have that with the World Cup.  The NHL doesn't feel it's worth it to send players to the Olympics for a bunch of tape-delayed games in North America.  The only reason the NHL players played in the Olympics as long as they have is they were able to have a 50-50 ratio of North American Winter Olympics compared to overseas ones since 1996 and Italy/Russia weren't that prohibitive timewise.  But with back to back Olympics in the far east McDavid would be playing at least half of his career in Olympic games nobody in the US would really watch and Canadians would have to burn the midnight oil.

Seeing NHL players in the Olympics is like seeing the Winter Classic, a great novelty at first but too much of it and eventually you stop caring.

Edited January 4, 2018 by NJDevs4978

[thecoffeecake]

8 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

They can have that with the World Cup.  The NHL doesn't feel it's worth it to send players to the Olympics for a bunch of tape-delayed games in North America.  The only reason the NHL players played in the Olympics as long as they have is they were able to have a 50-50 ratio of North American Winter Olympics compared to overseas ones since 1996 and Italy/Russia weren't that prohibitive timewise.  But with back to back Olympics in the far east McDavid would be playing at least half of his career in Olympic games nobody in the US would really watch and Canadians would have to burn the midnight oil.

Seeing NHL players in the Olympics is like seeing the Winter Classic, a great novelty at first but too much of it and eventually you stop caring.

They absolutely cannot have that with the World Cup unless they clean it up and legitimize it. Last year's disaster was a contrived all star game. 

There are no parallels between the Olympics and the Winter Classic. Intentional hockey isn't a gimmick and no one is tired of it. It's been around for decades and has produced some of hockey's greatest moments. 

[NJDfan1711]

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 2:31 PM, NJDevils1214 said:

My first number when I started playing ice hockey as a kid. Randomly assigned, but it stuck with me. 

That's funny...the 17 in mine is for Sykora and the 11 is for what I wore for a long time while playing hockey since I was a kid.  

Also, congrats to Gionta.  Nice guy and well deserved.  Happy for him.

[NJDevils1214]

I saw a couple of other ex Devils are on the team USA roster....Brian O'Neil and Bobby Butler. I cannot  for the life of me remember either of them...and it wasn't that long ago. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by NJDevils1214

[mfitz804]

40 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I saw a couple of other ex Devils are on the team USA roster....Brian O'Neil and Bobby Butler. I can not for the life of me remember either of them...and it wasn't that long ago. 

Totally agree. That news was definitely greeted with a “Oh yeaaaah, those guys...”

[thecoffeecake]

17 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I saw a couple of other ex Devils are on the team USA roster....Brian O'Neil and Bobby Butler. I cannot  for the life of me remember either of them...and it wasn't that long ago. 

I remember O'Neil well enough, he was recent. Wasn't he the Brown University kid (yes, I had to go back and add "university") from the Philly area? Butler I only remember by name. 

On 1/4/2018 at 1:18 AM, SterioDesign said:

personally i much prefer see an europe and north america youngster team that can actually compete rather than seeing Canada beating Switzerland 15-0. You want to see the best of the best and the format at the Olympics were not offering that anyway. It also gives a chance to guys like Kopitar who's one of the best to play in those tournaments

 That's what the all star game is for. The World Cup totally missed the point of the spirit of international competition. There are powerhouses and underdogs, that's how the Miracle on Ice happened. Team NA was the worst part of that tournament, because it meant the US and Canada didn't get to ice the 20 best players from their respective countries. That tournament was not a true gauge of hockey talent in the countries involved, so it wasn't a legitimate tournament. 

[SterioDesign]

Just now, thecoffeecake said:

That's what the all star game is for. The World Cup totally missed the point of the spirit of international competition. There are powerhouses and underdogs, that's how the Miracle on Ice happened. Team NA was the worst part of that tournament, because it meant the US and Canada didn't get to ice the 20 best players from their respective countries. That tournament was not a true gauge of hockey talent in the countries involved, so it wasn't a legitimate tournament. 

I respectfully disagree. It's totally different than the all star game for thousands of reasons.

It's not a better gauge of talent when a guy like Forsberg scores like 10 goals in one game against a country that can barely skate.

[Triumph]

The Miracle on Ice should not be a guiding principle.  Fantastically unlikely things will happen in sport, but to attempt to engineer them is to suffer through a lot of crap.  Quite frankly if your goal is a Miracle on Ice you should be in favor of this tournament because it has one theoretical powerhouse team ("Team Russia") and a lot of weaker clubs.  An also-ran country in an NHL-participating tournament would almost certainly have to go through multiple dominant teams loaded with NHL stars in order to win.  It's not impossible - anything can happen in single-elimination games - but imagine a world where the US got through the Soviet Union and then had to play a Finland team almost all of whom were NHLers.  

Hockey's a big luck sport, not as big as soccer, but close.  This stuff will happen sometimes.  There's no need to force it.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Triumph

[NJDevils1214]

2 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

I remember O'Neil well enough, he was recent. Wasn't he the Brown University kid (yes, I had to go back and add "university") from the Philly area? Butler I only remember by name. 

 That's what the all star game is for. The World Cup totally missed the point of the spirit of international competition. There are powerhouses and underdogs, that's how the Miracle on Ice happened. Team NA was the worst part of that tournament, because it meant the US and Canada didn't get to ice the 20 best players from their respective countries. That tournament was not a true gauge of hockey talent in the countries involved, so it wasn't a legitimate tournament. 

2014-2016 I was working hard trying to finish undergrad as a transfer. I watched the games while I wrote papers and everything but maybe some names just weren't retained. If I can conjure up names like Barry Tallackson, Nick Bergfores, Matt Taormina, and Matt Halischuck, I should remember. I am disappointed in myself! 

[thecoffeecake]

12 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

I respectfully disagree. It's totally different than the all star game for thousands of reasons.

It's not a better gauge of talent when a guy like Forsberg scores like 10 goals in one game against a country that can barely skate.

 What you're describing is contrived concentration of talent on teams to create the best competition possible. If it's not an all star competition, what would you call it? 

This is how international competition works in literally every other sport. The best players from each country represent their country in competition. Those one or two teams that aren't as talented as the rest of the group in Olympic hockey worked hard, achieved something huge, and make their countries proud just by playing among the world's best on that stage. 

Athletic competition isn't supposed to be filled with parity. There are good teams and bad teams. Should FIBA not exist because the US is better than the second best country in the world than Canada is better than Belarus on the ice? 

The World Cup should follow a similar format as the World Juniors. An 8-10 team field with one or two teams being relegated and one or two promoted to the top division. An all star competition taking top players away from the US and Canada and shoe horning two illegitimate teams into international competition is a joke. 

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, thecoffeecake said:

 What you're describing is contrived concentration of talent on teams to create the best competition possible. If it's not an all star competition, what would you call it? 

This is how international competition works in literally every other sport. The best players from each country represent their country in competition. Those one or two teams that aren't as talented as the rest of the group in Olympic hockey worked hard, achieved something huge, and make their countries proud just by playing among the world's best on that stage. 

Athletic competition isn't supposed to be filled with parity. There are good teams and bad teams. Should FIBA not exist because the US is better than the second best country in the world than Canada is better than Belarus on the ice? 

The World Cup should follow a similar format as the World Juniors. An 8-10 team field with one or two teams being relegated and one or two promoted to the top division. An all star competition taking top players away from the US and Canada and shoe horning two illegitimate teams into international competition is a joke. 

Well... your points are valid but for my entertainment (which is why i watch hockey... i want entertainment out of it) i still prefer the new world cup format. 

One thing that is important to understand in life though is that we all have opinions and we all make decisions based on what we believe in and want. So it's not because something doesn't align with your vision that it's bad or a joke. Just sayin' 

[thecoffeecake]

2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Well... your points are valid but for my entertainment (which is why i watch hockey... i want entertainment out of it) i still prefer the new world cup format. 

One thing that is important to understand in life though is that we all have opinions and we all make decisions based on what we believe in and want. So it's not because something doesn't align with your vision that it's bad or a joke. Just sayin' 

It's a joke because it deviates from what international competition has been in all sports for over a century. It's a joke because Canada has struggled to beat teams in every Olympics since 98 that you'd arbitrarily bar from competition. 

[SterioDesign]

1 minute ago, thecoffeecake said:

It's a joke because it deviates from what international competition has been in all sports for over a century. It's a joke because Canada has struggled to beat teams in every Olympics since 98 that you'd arbitrarily bar from competition. 

It's evolving and simply taking another direction. The Olympics are one thing, it's done and been done. There was still issues with it and they did something new, that's it. If you don't like it well that's too bad but it's still not a joke cause you think it's a joke and it doesnt fit with your narrowed and classic view of how things should be. Many people like it for various reasons, i don't go around saying the olympics are a joke cause i don't like a few things about it either lol I can understand the very simple fact that the world doesn't revolve around my own tastes.

[Devils Pride 26]

Butler was brought in after Parise left. Played a"top line" role if you want to even call it that before it was obvious that he was in over his head. I want to say he was #9 but can't remember if I'm confusing him with Scott Parse.

[thecoffeecake]

15 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

It's evolving and simply taking another direction. The Olympics are one thing, it's done and been done. There was still issues with it and they did something new, that's it. If you don't like it well that's too bad but it's still not a joke cause you think it's a joke and it doesnt fit with your narrowed and classic view of how things should be. Many people like it for various reasons, i don't go around saying the olympics are a joke cause i don't like a few things about it either lol I can understand the very simple fact that the world doesn't revolve around my own tastes.

 It's not about tastes, it's about the spirit of international athletic competition. I enjoy the Winter Classic, but I don't think they should award the Stanley Cup to its winner. You can't claim the World Cup is a legitimate replacement for Olympic hockey when top players from the best hockey playing countries are cherry picked to put an artificial team on the ice. If you want to let the NHL put that show on, that's fine. I enjoyed it too, I watched it, but Canada is the reigning senior hockey champion because of Sochi, not because they won that all star competition. 

If the IIHF wants to move the World Championship to allow all NHLers to participate, or NHLers are allowed back to the Olympics, let the NHL have its money grab with the World Cup, and they can do whatever they want with it. Hell, if it's in the Northeast, I might even go. But it's not a total replacement for legitimate international hockey. Period. 

I also think it's laughable that Canadians snub their noses at lesser talented hockey playing countries, when in almost every Olympic competition that has featured NHLers, Canada has struggled to beat teams you think aren't good enough to even skate on the same sheet of ice.

You bring up beating Switzerland 15-0, which, do you even watch hockey at that level? It took Canada a shootout to beat the Swiss in 2010, and they shut Canada out 2-0 in 2006, the same tournament they finished 3 points ahead of Canada in their group. 

In 2014 alone, Canada only beat Norway by 2 goals (3-1, the same score another country I'm sure you don't think is good enough to skate with Canada, Austria, beat Norway a few days later), and only managed to get passed Latvia in the medal round by one single goal. So tell me on what basis these countries shouldn't be allowed to compete for the top championship of international hockey.

[SterioDesign]

12 minutes ago, thecoffeecake said:

 It's not about tastes, it's about the spirit of international athletic competition. I enjoy the Winter Classic, but I don't think they should award the Stanley Cup to its winner. You can't claim the World Cup is a legitimate replacement for Olympic hockey when top players from the best hockey playing countries are cherry picked to put an artificial team on the ice. If you want to let the NHL put that show on, that's fine. I enjoyed it too, I watched it, but Canada is the reigning senior hockey champion because of Sochi, not because they won that all star competition. 

If the IIHF wants to move the World Championship to allow all NHLers to participate, or NHLers are allowed back to the Olympics, let the NHL have its money grab with the World Cup, and they can do whatever they want with it. Hell, if it's in the Northeast, I might even go. But it's not a total replacement for legitimate international hockey. Period. 

I also think it's laughable that Canadians snub their noses at lesser talented hockey playing countries, when in almost every Olympic competition that has featured NHLers, Canada has struggled to beat teams you think aren't good enough to even skate on the same sheet of ice.

You bring up beating Switzerland 15-0, which, do you even watch hockey at that level? It took Canada a shootout to beat the Swiss in 2010, and they shut Canada out 2-0 in 2006, the same tournament they finished 3 points ahead of Canada in their group. 

In 2014 alone, Canada only beat Norway by 2 goals (3-1, the same score another country I'm sure you don't think is good enough to skate with Canada, Austria, beat Norway a few days later), and only managed to get passed Latvia in the medal round by one single goal. So tell me on what basis these countries shouldn't be allowed to compete for the top championship of international hockey.

well i never said that these countries shouldn't be allowed to compete. I said for my personal entertainment i'd much rather see more parity and closer games. Guys like Kopitar who comes from nowhere, should be able to play at that level, he deserves it, not his fault his country can't produce talent. I'd also much prefer see younger guys who couldn't make the team for their country cause the talent pool is way too big. Like Matthews last year (eventhough Matthews would have made the Olympic team this year for sure) but you get what i'm saying. I just want to watch good hockey. And i truly LOVED watching that young north american team play.

I mean. Both Canada and US won the 4th team in the junior tournament (demi final and silver medal game) with a 6+ goal differential. It's boring to watch blowouts like that.

Edited January 7, 2018 by SterioDesign

[thecoffeecake]

3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

well i never said that these countries shouldn't be allowed to compete. I said for my personal entertainment i'd much rather see more parity and closer games. Guys like Kopitar who comes from nowhere, should be able to play at that level, he deserves it, not his fault his country can't produce talent. I'd also much prefer see younger guys who couldn't make the team for their country cause the talent pool is way too big. Like Matthews last year (eventhough Matthews would have made the Olympic team this year for sure) but you get what i'm saying. I just want to watch good hockey. And i truly LOVED watching that young north american team play.

I mean. Both Canada and US won the 4th team in the junior tournament (demi final and silver medal game) with a 6+ goal differential. It's boring to watch blowouts like that.

Kopitar got to compete in Sochi because his country worked hard and achieved something huge. I'm sure that was a prouder moment to him that he got to play for his country at that stage than it was for Canadian players to win gold. That's part of the beauty and appeal of it. 

Unfortunately, a lot of players don't get to take part, whether they're American or Canadian top 6 NHLers (think Phil Kessel who was left off Team USA for the World Cup right in the middle of being one of the most important pieces of a back to back cup run), or the Vaneks and Kopitars and Draisaitls whose countries aren't expected to qualify for every tournament. And yea, think about the Gaudreaus and Eichels and McDavids that should've been representing their countries. We'll never get to see McDavid and Crosby skate together in their primes at a meaningful tournament because of that and not participating this year.  We'll never know how good the Americans truly were in 2016. That, even from a raw entertainment stand point, sucks.