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GDT: Red Wings @ Devils 7:00PM


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1 minute ago, jagknife said:

Literally the only positive as of late is the fact our PK hasn't allowed a goal

So its okay to crucify Severson and his minus-100 but Zacha scoring 3 goals all season is where we draw the line?

Yeah, he's getting shots off, but he's taking too long to do it. And even when he does get shots off its usually followed up with "fired wide by Zacha"

He isn't consistent, either. He has a great game where yeah maybe he doesn't score but still played well, then he'll have a lazy game or 4 in a row. This is one of, if not the first game all season I'm on the fvck Zacha train but frankly its because we need people to step up, and the guy who earlier this year was dumbfounded that he wasn't playing has given the team exactly 1 goal to show for it.

When he tries he shows he can be a serviceable middle 6 forward. The problem is getting him to give that type of effort every game, and for someone who has over 100 games under his belt in the NHL, that should not be the case anymore.

They all played hard, but the score board doesn't lie.

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Just now, Devs64 said:

They all played hard, but the score board doesn't lie.

You're generous, I thought they were in a coma outside of some flashes through the first two periods and about half of the third.

EDIT: Angry Jag apparently thinks the second comes after the first two periods.

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A lot of guys are going to need to start stepping up...it's beginning to feel like it's Taylor or bust, instead of by committee.  Palms and MoJo starting to find the back of the net would be a good start...those two simply need to produce more.  MoJo in particular has flown under the radar as far as that goes.  

Nico's been pretty quiet on the goal-scoring front too, but not sure how much I can ask of a kid playing in his first NHL season.  It's gotta come from the vets.

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5 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Literally the only positive as of late is the fact our PK hasn't allowed a goal

So its okay to crucify Severson and his minus-100 but Zacha scoring 3 goals all season is where we draw the line?

Yeah, he's getting shots off, but he's taking too long to do it. And even when he does get shots off its usually followed up with "fired wide by Zacha"

He isn't consistent, either. He has a great game where yeah maybe he doesn't score but still played well, then he'll have a lazy game or 4 in a row. This is one of, if not the first game all season I'm on the fvck Zacha train but frankly its because we need people to step up, and the guy who earlier this year was dumbfounded that he wasn't playing has given the team exactly 1 goal to show for it.

When he tries he shows he can be a serviceable middle 6 forward. The problem is getting him to give that type of effort every game, and for someone who has over 100 games under his belt in the NHL, that should not be the case anymore.

I was never on the Severson hate train, thought he was our best defenseman last year and probably our 2nd best this year behind Vatanen.

I agree Pavel has some consistency issues, I think that's the real thing holding him back so far in his career. I think a lot of his struggles are between the ears in terms of confidence and just struggling to get some momentum going, but I see the skill set there and he has very good hockey sense. There's a very good player in there, I just prefer to preach patience instead of crucifying the kid.

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6 minutes ago, jagknife said:

You're generous, I thought they were in a coma outside of some flashes through the first two periods and about half of the third.

EDIT: Angry Jag apparently thinks the second comes after the first two periods.

Can't have 37 SOG in a coma, but you are right - it wasn't a 60 min game anyway. I think frustration kicked in and it's Hynes' job to motivate them.

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Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

A lot of guys are going to need to start stepping up...it's beginning to feel like it's Taylor or bust, instead of by committee.  Palms and MoJo starting to find the back of the net would be a good start...those two simply need to produce more.  MoJo in particular has flown under the radar as far as that goes.  

Nico's been pretty quiet on the goal-scoring front too, but not sure how much I can ask of a kid playing in his first NHL season.  It's gotta come from the vets.

If MoJo wasn't doing other stuff right, I'd be as pissed at him as I am with Zacha. That's his only saving grace is his willingness to sacrifice himself game in and game out.

Palms becoming Ovie on the PP is frustrating, especially since, other than the one PP in the 2nd, it felt like they were either going to force him the puck or force the puck to the slot where Zajac, Stafford or Boyle were blanketed by the collapsing box PK the Wings played. He has skill, we saw it last year, he's not using it as much as he was. There is no doubt for a stretch there he was dealing with lingering injures from this season, but he's got to pick it up and not just rely on a slapper from the circle to get his goals.

Greene is back to being useless after his one game of absolute brilliance. I honestly have no clue what leadership he is bringing on the ice so it has to be behind the scenes.

Moore and Severson were abysmal, especially on the Larkin goal.

I'd love for Boyle or Nose or Coleman to pot a goal, but those wells are currently dry, as is the case with most of the team.

1 minute ago, CommonDreads said:

I was never on the Severson hate train, thought he was our best defenseman last year and probably our 2nd best this year behind Vatanen.

I agree Pavel has some consistency issues, I think that's the real thing holding him back so far in his career. I think a lot of his struggles are between the ears in terms of confidence and just struggling to get some momentum going, but I see the skill set there and he has very good hockey sense. There's a very good player in there, I just prefer to preach patience instead of crucifying the kid.

The problem is you can't teach effort or drive, that has to come from within, and Zacha does not show that on a consistent basis and it drives me insane. He has talent, and he's absolutely snake bitten, but the dude has to want to get better and I don't see it enough.

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3 minutes ago, Devs64 said:

I was talking about the final score

He's saying if Boyle scores, the team plays differently. Hell if fvcking Greene scores, they're playing a completely different hockey game.

Just now, Devs64 said:

Can't have 37 SOG in a coma, but you are right - it wasn't a 60 min game anyway. I think frustration kicked in and it's Hynes' job to motivate them.

You can when a good number of your shots were low percentage and into the winged wheel on Mrazek's chest. They were moving in slow motion nearly the entire first two periods, everyone saw it. Thankfully Detroit came out just as limp, otherwise this game would have been significantly uglier

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38 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

 

We’ve sucked for at least a month now, most of it with Hall in the lineup.

That said, if he wants to play with one hand tomorrow, I’m ok with that. 

They were at least competitive in most of those loses though. These last couple games not so much...

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Would of been more fun game and a nice marketing gimmick, if Detroit started Chili vs. Devs Appleby.

"Appleby's vs. Chili's ...your neighborhood goalie battle"

 

As usual, Zajac and Hayes: hands of bricks or cinderblocks take your pick,  guess it goes with the horrendous team passing tonight

Hischier looked exhausted/worn-out, time to crack out the 3D/VR setup out and COACH changes appropriately or give the kid a rest.

Has Vatanen contacted his stick manufacturer  for failure analysis to why all his sticks keep breaking like potato chips?

Old guys need their ice time reduced, the Defense or lack of it,  not going to be fixed until draft-trade dates, cuz this setup does not work right,  Hynes/Shero?

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4 minutes ago, jagknife said:

He's saying if Boyle scores, the team plays differently. Hell if fvcking Greene scores, they're playing a completely different hockey game.

You can when a good number of your shots were low percentage and into the winged wheel on Mrazek's chest. They were moving in slow motion nearly the entire first two periods, everyone saw it. Thankfully Detroit came out just as limp, otherwise this game would have been significantly uglier

Almost all losses like this had the same scenario - you struggle (often outscoring the other team) and they have no problem putting pucks in your net. No matter what the players say after such games they all know that.

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I don't know why tonight is the night for the Zacha conversation.  It's easily one of the best games he's played as a Devil in terms of entering the zone with speed, not being deferential, forcing defenders into tough positions, and being noticed out on the ice.  Did he score?  No, and he hasn't scored in a while, but he's getting shots, and he has a good shot, so I think that will come soon.  But I thought he was probably the best forward for the Devils tonight.  Him and Coleman had that great sequence on the PK where they wasted the Wings' time and then Zacha set up Vatanen with a decent opportunity from the point but he thought better of it (perhaps because he knew if he missed the net he would trap everyone but himself).  I don't think Zacha is a future star or anything close but he can have a fine career as a top 9 forward.

Devils came out flat in the 1st when they shouldn't've and they sagged in the 3rd a bit in a way that resembled some bad Devils teams of recent vintage, but their PP did everything besides score.  There's a few too many passengers on the team when someone like Hall is out - Hayes, Stafford, and Boyle all need carrying and Zajac probably does too.  

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29 minutes ago, CommonDreads said:

Player development is way more complex than looking at a stat sheet. If you watched Zacha tonight, he did everything you want to see out of him tonight other than score. He was getting his shots off, he working well off his teammates, he was moving well with the puck, this was one of Zacha's most encouraging games of the season and I don't get why it can't be just that instead of being flipped into a narrative where he only looked good because everyone else was bad. He was legitimately good tonight and got rewarded with more ice time because of it.

Also, it's very premature to declare that a kid who isn't even old enough to buy a beer yet as someone that's always going to suck. He's 20, can this fan base give him some fvcking patience?

I agree with all of this. This would be another story if Zacha was playing poorly and not producing. It would be more of a red flag if he was still playing like he was a few months back. I also think this is where a lot of the frustration comes from. Watching talent that isn't converting draws a lot more attention than watching passengers not produce.

I think it's silly that everyone chose tonight to hate on Zacha, since he played well enough to be promoted to the second line. And before tonight's game, Hynes had been putting more and more trust in him. You could argue that every other forward did less than Zacha tonight. Makes no sense for him to be the scapegoat when not a single player stepped up. Where was Palmieri, MoJo, Zajac, Boyle tonight? But here we are, blaming Conte for picking a player who hasn't produced much yet, after a year and a half in the NHL.

Anyway, you aren't going to get far trying to convince Daniel that Zacha has some upside, since he believes Pavel to be worse than Lawson "okay AHLer" Crouse.

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32 minutes ago, Antiquated Colorado Rockie said:

I agree he played well, he was moving well and finding open spaces and getting chances. There is reason for encouragement but I am concerned though about the consistent lack of finish. People are going to expect a 6th overall pick from 2 and a half years ago to have better finish than what he has displayed this year.  

This. It's no longer his first.rodeo.

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