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PeteyNice

NHL SEASON OFFICIALLY CANCELLED

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I don't think the NHL will counter. $7 million is still pretty significant, especially with only 12 hours to go.

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This discussion is finally getting to the actual heart of the issue, with the 'philosophical' divide now being viewed in purely monetary terms:  the PA doesn't believe the league lost $280 million.  This $49 million cap, assuming about 15 teams reach it, provides the players with an extra $105 million over the NHL's plan.  If the NHL was lying, they take this offer, if they weren't, they decline it.  I still think they decline it and counter-offer with 45. 

However, there is a luxury tax here, so maybe we're getting somewhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree...FINALLY some on the spot conterproposing...tells me they are getting close...the framework is there, it WILL get done!!! Keep the coffee brewin and get this damn CBA done already!!!!

And that 11am date...dont believe that either....this is classic chess.

Edited by Legend Of the Clown Banner

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If the owners are lying about the drop-dead date and/or the 'final' offer then why would the players believe anything from here on out during what's left of this negotiation? I do think the owners are not budging from $42.5, that doesn't neccesarily mean there isn't something else the owners could give back in the deal, but I think the owners bent as far as they can go on the cap number, remember they only need eight veto votes to cancel a deal so I really don't think they have a lot of flexibility. The PA's got till 11 AM to get their head out of their a$$, I don't think they will though :saddevil:

Edited by Hasan4978

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I am so glad I wasn't watching the Internet tonoght and I simply sat back and watched the Devils beat the Phailures in the game that counted most.

I admit it, I get pleasure out of seeing Erica Lindros taken out by the captain. G-d forgive me.

Watching that was therapudic.... I don't care what they settle on... btw, that letter from Bettman is the FINAL offer... players will have to accept or die.

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$7 million is significant; if and only if you regard these as real proposals.

Both sides A: do not want to accept the first offer that comes their way and B: do not want to be the party that effectively cancels the season by rejecting a proposal without offering a counter-proposal. Again, it's going to be a lot more than $105 million that the players (and owners) will be losing if they blow up the season, so the elements for a deal are all certainly here.

Has, you can't say "this is our final offer" and expect someone to accept it. The PA has already bent over backwards in capitulating to the cap, and doing so in a real way. Both sides need to be able to declare a victory for this to work. If the NHL says "f-off, 42.5 was as high as we will go", they will have given the PR victory right over to the players, which is unacceptable when they've been winning from Day One.

Edited by Triumph

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The actual active rosters are 23 players, not 20. The number of players who are scheduled to play on any particular night are 20, 18 skaters and 2 goalies. Did someone plan to change that to 20 under the new CBA...is that why people suddenly working off of 20 players here?

When we have talked about contracting teams we have always calculated the number of jobs lost off the 23 roster spots, as far as I know.

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$7 million is significant; if and only if you regard these as real proposals.
Edited by Z-Man

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Tri, both sides bent yesterday, the owners came off of THEIR big thing (or at least one of the two) which was linkage and upped the cap number ever so slightly. I think at this point PR's irrelevant, if the season gets canceled now most people will say a pox on both their houses.

Sue, I think the only real way you can increase roster spots is if you upped the total roster to 24 and had four scratches per game instead of three. I really don't think having a 13th forward or a 7th d or a 3rd goalie dress for games would be prudent.

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You're all deluded.

Eighteen teams were below the cap but what this does is it throws the brakes on any salary growth.

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That's ridiculous. $49M cap?!?

The NHL gave their final offer - which I think gave away the store - this afternoon and said there was no room to negotiate. That was their final offer. And they come back with a cap that is outrageously higher than the one the NHL put forth?

Good night Irene.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don :

First rule of negotiating... no offer is final until there are signatures on the document....

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That's ridiculous. $49M cap?!?

The NHL gave their final offer - which I think gave away the store - this afternoon and said there was no room to negotiate. That was their final offer. And they come back with a cap that is outrageously higher than the one the NHL put forth?

Good night Irene.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don :

First rule of negotiating... no offer is final until there are signatures on the document....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or the season officially gets canceled without another offer :P

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and thats a perfect reason why i dont like brian $anborn.. he is all about the dollars

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$7 million is significant; if and only if you regard these as real proposals. 

Both sides A:  do not want to accept the first offer that comes their way and B:  do not want to be the party that effectively cancels the season by rejecting a proposal without offering a counter-proposal.  Again, it's going to be a lot more than $105 million that the players (and owners) will be losing if they blow up the season, so the elements for a deal are all certainly here.

Has, you can't say "this is our final offer" and expect someone to accept it.  The PA has already bent over backwards in capitulating to the cap, and doing so in a real way.  Both sides need to be able to declare a victory for this to work.  If the NHL says "f-off, 42.5 was as high as we will go", they will have given the PR victory right over to the players, which is unacceptable when they've been winning from Day One.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This post nails it. Tri, while we may not always agree on stuff, I really have to give you credit here.

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this will get done at the last second - owners will probably counter at 43-44, maybe 45 MAX, i would think. but everything that has happened over the past day or two is a sign that a deal is imminent. its the only thing that makes sense at this stage.

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Has, I wasn't suggesting that they should increase rosters. I was just wondering how people were forgetting that current rosters were at 23 NOW. People were saying they were at 20 and some were talking about taking them up to 27. I was just saying they weren't at 20...just the actual players in any game were. I thought I might have missed some effort by the owners to cut roster size somewhere along the way.

Derek, in terms of JD wanting the 'cap' at $45-46 million, he doesn't even think it should be an actual cap, he wants high-spending teams to be able to go above it. He was pretty clear about that.

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and thats a perfect reason why i dont like brian $anborn.. he is all about the dollars

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LMFAO... that's the way $ambone has always operated :lol:. Classic.

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Come to think of it there's already been too many 'nevers' in the negotiation that have been broken...

Players: 'We will never accept a cap'

Owners: 'We must have linkage'

Players AND owners the other day: 'There will be no new offers'

So I guess moral of the story is you can't believe either of these buffoons :P

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Does anyone else see the irony from one line in Goodenow's letter?

"I have attached a short summary of the main deal points discussed by Bill and Ted yesterday, as modified above."

I knew we had idiots doing the negotiating on both sides, but BILL AND TED???

Awesome, Dude!!!!

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Honestly, if the two sides can't reach an agreement now, they have no more excuses. They both have made concessions and aren't that far apart. Just compromise and they can save what little season there is left but gain back some credibility in the public eye. Losing an entire year is suicidal. They need to get it done.

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Has, I wasn't suggesting that they should increase rosters.  I was just wondering how people were forgetting that current rosters were at 23 NOW.  People were saying they were at 20 and some were talking about taking them up to 27.  I was just saying they weren't at 20...just the actual players in any game were.  I thought I might have missed some effort by the owners to cut roster size somewhere along the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I assumed they wanted active rosters to increase from 20 to whatever like baseball did when they increased rosters from 24 to 25 a couple decades ago, but I didn't read the posts carefully and increasing the active roster wouldn't work anyway, the symmetry of having four even lines and three even D-pairings I don't think can really be tampered with. Increasing the inactive roster might be something else, but I don't think it's really neccesary to go above 24.

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Does anyone else see the irony from one line in Goodenow's letter?

I knew we had idiots doing the negotiating on both sides, but BILL AND TED???

Awesome, Dude!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Strange things are certainly afoot at the Circle K tonight.

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finally we have some good back and forth here.

I refuse to believe the owners won't budge at least 2.5 from there supposed "final offer. Come back with 45 million and we might have a season. You've got the rollback, a luxury tax, and a high enough cap where it can't really be considered a true cap.

CBA is short, only 6 years, heck they'll start building up the warchests again by 2009. It's

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Has, I wasn't suggesting that they should increase rosters.

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The FAN590 is reporting that the NHL has rejected the offer.

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the players wouldn't get pissed off by less ice time if they get paid more.

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