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Draft Lottery Thread

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And Derek is perfectly entitled to his opinion, but that doesn't mean any of us have to agree with him. He wanted more of a guarantee that teams that had done worse in the past would do better in that lottery and they had already had their guaranteed drafts. All drafts based strictly on performance in past seasons had been done already.

That doesn't mean that he is wrong. It simply means that I disagree with him and LOTCB....apparently along with a bunch of other people on this board.

And he'll get his drafts based on performance in season starting next June, and the June after that, and the June after that, when there is again a season to judge by.

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5th most popular sport...wooohooo...like other sports don't end in ties???  Whoopie...they saw a tie...it is the end of the world...it is not sport or competition it is entertainment...how silly of me to thing differently...some people need to allow others an opinion that does not agree with theirs or the majority....I mean free will and choice still exist...correct????

The NFL has about one tie game a decade.

NBA, MLB, Golf, Tennis, Bowling, Badminton, Log Rolling, whatever....no ties.

When a team like Minnesota ties 20 times in a year, you don't find that excessive? One out of every four games they play has no winner.

You're entitled to your opinion, I never said you weren't. I just wish people would have an open mind. See how these changes work before passing judgement. Doesn't mean I think you're wrong.

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Pittsburgh was a huge market in 91 and 92 and still has a nationwide following becuase of Mario Lemieux. 

A 'huge market' doesn't need Sidney Crosby.  Many of those teams already have star players.  Pittsburgh is actually almost the perfect place for him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree completely.

I also think that the market thing is drastically overrated in today's day and age (with the mass media and internet). Just look at LeBron in Cleveland and the stars that are made through ESPN's highlights and 24/7 coverage across all sports.

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Don't worry...I won't be watching come Oct 5th...

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

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The NFL has about one tie game a decade.

NBA, MLB, Golf, Tennis, Bowling, Badminton, Log Rolling, whatever....no ties.

When a team like Minnesota ties 20 times in a year, you don't find that excessive?  One out of every four games they play has no winner. 

You're entitled to your opinion, I never said you weren't.  I just wish people would have an open mind.  See how these changes work before passing judgement. Doesn't mean I think you're wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. Ties are stupid. In the NFL, it's deserved; the two teams have played for 75 minutes without determining a winner, in a sport where it's easy to score points. In the NHL, it's mostly because both teams ran out of time to determine a winner. I'd say 20% of ties make me feel good. The rest, there just wasn't enough game left to determine the true winner.

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Crosby going to Pittsburg in no way helps the NHL the league really struck out on this one.  Even as a devil fan im able to see beyond my bias and look at the bigger picture.  Him ending up a Ranger/Flyer or some other big market team would have dont allot more for the game then this. God why cant you people be more open to other peoples opinions. 

Oh and Derek loving your posts very well put.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well put. Again, if people read my original post, I never had any issue with Crosby winding up in Pittsburgh. I think it's great for that franchise because there's no guarantee they will survive. It definitely gives them a boost and a chance to be an NHL power again.

Sue, I never asked anyone to agree with me. I had no issue with all 30 teams being given a shot at Crosby because there was no season last year. My main gripe was the same one Clown posted in a poll thread about having an issue with the lottery ball percentages for lower teams. Three balls compared to one was not that much of an advantage. I felt they should have made a better effort to protect the worst teams from dropping out of the top 10. I don't see how it's fair that teams like Buffalo and the Rangers could wind up where they did.

Does anyone honestly believe the Rangers with their current roster heading into last season would have made the postseason?

And if someone answers yes, you need to look in the mirror a few times and see if you turn into Pinnochio.

As I stated before, they weren't the only team along with Buffalo that got shafted in this process. Edmonton got royally screwed. So did Florida. I could care less if Florida had 1 lottery ball cause they had two number one's. They have made the playoffs like once in the last 5-6 years. There's something wrong with them picking 29th and Montreal picking 5th, Ottawa picking 9th and Vancouver picking 10th.

P.S. Where did Phoenix wind up? I guess they got screwed as well.

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Well put. Again, if people read my original post, I never had any issue with Crosby winding up in Pittsburgh. I think it's great for that franchise because there's no guarantee they will survive. It definitely gives them a boost and a chance to be an NHL power again.

Sue, I never asked anyone to agree with me. I had no issue with all 30 teams being given a shot at Crosby because there was no season last year. My main gripe was the same one Clown posted in a poll thread about having an issue with the lottery ball percentages for lower teams. Three balls compared to one was not that much of an advantage. I felt they should have made a better effort to protect the worst teams from dropping out of the top 10. I don't see how it's fair that teams like Buffalo and the Rangers could wind up where they did.

Does anyone honestly believe the Rangers with their current roster heading into last season would have made the postseason?

And if someone answers yes, you need to look in the mirror a few times and see if you turn into Pinnochio.

As I stated before, they weren't the only team along with Buffalo that got shafted in this process. Edmonton got royally screwed. So did Florida. I could care less if Florida had 1 lottery ball cause they had two number one's. They have made the playoffs like once in the last 5-6 years. There's something wrong with them picking 29th and Montreal picking 5th, Ottawa picking 9th and Vancouver picking 10th.

P.S. Where did Phoenix wind up? I guess they got screwed as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For the third time in this thread: IT IS A SNAKE DRAFT. There is more than 1 round to the NHL draft, too.

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Phoenix ended up at #17, but I don't think they got screwed too badly. Look at all the free agent acquisitions they had in the last off-season. They had a shot at making the playoffs, or at least finishing around the .500 mark.

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For the third time in this thread:  IT IS A SNAKE DRAFT.  There is more than 1 round to the NHL draft, too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know it is. But would you rather pick higher in the first round or the second?

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The reality is that the teams that are being mentioned in 'screwed' category have mismanaged their assets for years. In additon they haven't drafted that well or developed/retained many of the solid selections.

I understand the sentiment that poor teams should have a greater oppurtunity to procure the top selections, but there was no season to base the order off. The NHL came up with a solid solution that allowed all teams a shot, while still weighting the proccess in favor of the less successful clubs.

Edited by L

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Don't worry...I won't be watching come Oct 5th...

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You forgot to quote this : "for reasons other than can be spun here"

Not to worry...tho...there will be no door come Oct 5th to hit me...no TV either.

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Obviously the first, but teams aren't getting 'screwed' like you think they are. Having the 29th overall pick means having the 32nd overall pick. Pittsburgh doesn't get to pick again until #60. And for a team that also needs to rebuild a franchise with no depth, that will hurt them.

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Speaking of snake-lottery beneficiaries, a buddy of mine brought up an excellent point -- don't forget that Anaheim got Tampa Bay's 2nd rounder in this draft in the Prospal deal from last off-season.

That means Anaheim picks #2, #31, and #59. Not a bad setup for the first two rounds.

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Speaking of snake-lottery beneficiaries, a buddy of mine brought up an excellent point -- don't forget that Anaheim got Tampa Bay's 2nd rounder in this draft in the Prospal deal from last off-season.

That means Anaheim picks #2, #31, and #59. Not a bad setup for the first two rounds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and now they have Burke at the helm too.

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Derek, I was actually replying to 783, who seemed annoyed that more of us weren't agreeing with you.

And I have no idea where you would have wound up had a season been played. Remember the year Boston had 60 points, drafted Thornton & Samsonov, and made the playoffs the next year (even though Thornton did almost nothing)? It's certainly not impossible that you might have been drafting somewhere around 16th. Maybe 13th-14th if you missed the playoffs but came on at the end as the team gelled. It's NOT certain that you would have been picking in the top 10. There are definitely instances of young teams doing better than people expect them to do if they are well coached and they are working hard...even if they don't make the post season. Maybe you expect the team to tank to make sure it gets a high draft choice?

Maybe they could have done the weighting slightly better. But overall, I still don't think this was terribly done. Once you decided that playoff teams were going to participate in this you ran this risk. Otherwise, in order to get the guarantee you want, you might as well have done what the non-playoff teams wanted to do originally, pull out anyone who had been in the playoffs in the last 3 years. Which undoes all the point of saying that had been taken care of by each year's draft. You can't have it both ways. If you are going to make the chances that anyone but one of the teams you think 'should' pick in a certain spot will pick in a certain spot then why bother to do it this way at all. Do it the way the non-playoff teams wanted to do it in the first place. Throw out everyone who has had a sniff at the playoffs in the last 3 years, no matter how bad they were in any given year in that period, and keep the rest in. Then have the lottery with those teams. Then pull the rest back in and have a drawing to determine the rest of the order. Of course, that penalizes teams like Carolina and Anaheim, who sucked after their Finals appearances, but I guess under the theory here they deserve it???

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From reading the Flames board, they are pretty peeved. They traded their 2nd away as well, so not only do they pick late in the first, but their high second round pick doesn't make up for it.

But to their credit, they aren't peeved, like some, that their poor showing in recent years didn't give them 100 balls, but rather that they may not have made that trade if they knew it was going to be such a high 2nd round draft.

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And they already GOT a high pick for that, you want to give them two for it?

I wanted them to be more protected from dropping to where they did. Buffalo dropped too. Can you honestly say with a straight face that it made complete sense?

And who said 'you' said they deserved to win?  I was referring more to Clown's post above and he's not a Ranger fan.  Talk about generalizations...

Some have been complaining about how Ranger fans basically felt they were entitled to Crosby. We're all like that :rolleyes:.

I think you missed Clown's point. His point was the same as mine. But of course, if anyone didn't have just positive thoughts about yesterday, it would get pissed on.

I also believe Clown realized that my team was in a lot worse shape than his. Which of course some people would never shed light on. As long as the Rangers got screwed, all was right in the world!

And I can just see if the situation were reversed how you would react. Because in your opinion, 'the NHL is out to get the Devils.' Explain the 3 Cups. Explain how your GM had more influence on what went into the new CBA than any other and had a clear advantage because of this knowledge. 

I didn't think I'd have to explain this to you but Ottawa's a CANADIEN market, bigger than Pittsburgh is irrelevant in their case.  The NHL does not need to sell the game to Canada and having Crosby in Canada won't do much in terms of selling it to the US.  As for us, we're supposed to be what's wrong with the game according to the so-called experts.  You think the NHL wants Crosby going to a place that will never go out of its way to market individuals as long as Lou is here?  Plus Pittsburgh has the Lemieux factor they can at least play it up as a passing of the torch.

I don't think the NHL's dream was to have Crosby wind up in one of the most unstable places in terms of whether that franchise can survive in spite of the new agreement. They need a new arena and there's no guarantee that they're going to get it because the city of Pittsburgh hasn't given the kind of treatment they deserved compared to their baseball and football teams. Teams like Ottawa and the Devils will be playing in better venues. The Devils are getting their own new state of the art facility in Newark and play in a much larger market than Pittsburgh. And Ottawa plays in Canada as you stated. Imagine the kid playing for a Canadian franchise. In either case, there would be more media coverage/exposure than where he wound up.

:rolleyes:

Nobody's questioning your fandom but honestly there's something wrong when you or anyone is 'disheartened' after the only two good days the NHL has seen in the last year and a half.  It's like a Boston Red Sox fan complaining about Grady Little leaving in Pedro against the Yankees and moaning about 86 years of misery the day AFTER they won the World Series last year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I've stated before, it's nice to have the game back. But I don't agree with everything they did. That doesn't mean something's wrong with me. Is there something wrong when others express differing opinions?

The league's panel claimed that 'everyone wants 2 minutes of 3-on-3, shootouts along with a rule that limits goalies from utilizing all their skills.'

Even the new rule of taking out the red line to allow two-line passes not everyone agrees with. And you can't tell me everyone is in total agreement about the new point system.

The league passed these new rules without polling the real fans. Don't you think the diehards who missed hockey the most should have been included in what they decided?

They canceled a whole season. Who got screwed the most? The fans.

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Obviously the first, but teams aren't getting 'screwed' like you think they are.  Having the 29th overall pick means having the 32nd overall pick.  Pittsburgh doesn't get to pick again until #60.  And for a team that also needs to rebuild a franchise with no depth, that will hurt them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you think picking 16th one round and picking 14th another is a great position to be in? :lol:

I understand that it was a crapshoot. I just wish they could have protected the worst teams from dropping more. There's nothing else I can do about it.

My team has four picks in the first 46. What I can hope for is that they will bang their heads together and package some of those to trade up into the top five or six.

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Z

It came across as if I was wrong...sorry if I misinterpretted...anyway...Minn...they get 20 ties and know why...Lemaire...they play for that stupid 1 pt and not allowing the other team an extra pt...if they were to lose that 1 pt if the other team scored on them it would be different or I would think it so.

As for changes...there have been many I have witnessed in my years...some I still don't like...for example...the size of the crease...little square front door was great...I have never liked the new crease and never will.  Anyone can be disappointed.  Doesn't mean they have a closed mind.  I want to see the old rock 'em sock 'em hockey...I want to see the Orrs and Howes of the world... I want to see the Tiger Williams of the world...I don't want see pansy hockey and imo that is what it has become.  International rules...perhaps....gimmicks....no need imo :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think there's anything wrong with disagreeing with some of the changes. That's been my point all along. Not every fan is going to like every new rule.

And you've been through a lot more hockey seasons than most.

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Ahh, I missed this! THIS is vintage NJDevs.com! :evil:

:wub:

Crosby going to Pittsburg in no way helps the NHL the league really struck out on this one.  Even as a devil fan im able to see beyond my bias and look at the bigger picture.  Him ending up a Ranger/Flyer or some other big market team would have dont allot more for the game then this. God why cant you people be more open to other peoples opinions.

Fixing the draft does nothing for the game except bring derision and disrespect down upon it. We've mentioned the Patrick Ewing draft a lot recently. Whether or not that was actually fixed, allegations of such continue to this day. Is that what you want Sidney Crosby's legacy to be? Do you want people to talk about how the draft was fixed so he'd end up in a major market regardless of whether they actually deserved him?

The Flyers sure as hell don't need a blue chip prospect like Crosby, not with the excellent job they've done developing prospects over the last few years. The Rangers are debatable and our biases as Devils fans would probably come into play here, so I won't say anything about that. Looking around the larger media markets in the U.S. and Canada, most of their teams don't need Crosby either. Putting the big names in the big markets right from the get-go for publicity's sake does nothing for the league's credibility. That's what free agency's for.

Derek's point that the weaker teams should have had the best chance of winning the #1 pick is certainly valid. Saying that the major markets should have had the best chance of winning the #1 pick, regardless of actual need, is hogwash.

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wow, this is a stressed out thread....

really bringing out the worst in people...

i'm having a good day, 2 hours of playing hockey will do that, so i'm in no mood to argue.

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And I have no idea where you would have wound up had a season been played.
Edited by Hasan4978

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Also one player in basketball can make a hell of a lot more of a difference(playing not marketing) than one player in hockey, so i think thats another reason the nba(not saying they did) would rather fix a draft than the nhl

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