Palestinians = idiots

[David Puddy]

So were validating Hamas in this thread ... is that right ?

No, we're trying to understand why Palestinians would vote for a group we see as nothing but terrorists.

[El Diablo]

No, we're trying to understand why Palestinians would vote for a group we see as nothing but terrorists.

we... as in The US and Israel or is the rest of the world included too?

[point]

Boy did Great Britain screw things up in the Mid-East. Carving up land without regard to tribal, ethnic or religious groups. Then, just to add to the mix, they decided that, after centuries of British anti-semitism, a homeland for the Jews would be a good idea. I guess they thought they could be proud of that, and they could send their Jews to Israel too.

The Palestinian nation really didn't exist before Israel, so one could say that by creating Israel 2 nations were formed.

Now, I didn't hear much from the Palestinian supporters when Ariel Sharon said that he should have killed Yassir Arafat when he had the chance, but the Israel supporters really jump on anyone who thinks that Israel doesn't have the right to exist. (And why isn't England supporting their own creation?)

RE Hamas:

Democracy is sloppy, and those pesky foreigners don't always elect folks who kowtow to the US policy hard line. It happens, in Canada, Bolivia, Venezuela, even France and Germany.

When a guy like Sharon, who allowed thousands of Palestinians in camps in Lebanon to be attacked and massacred by Christian militias is willing to pull troops out of Gaza, maybe Hamas will step up to the plate and do its part for peace. Lets face it, you can't negotiate if you lay all your cards out on the table first, or take your strongest cards off the table.

Wait and see.

[MaddDog]

To clarify a few things...

I don't have sympathy for the Palis when they elect Hamas. Hamas has publicly stated that ISRAEL MUST BE DESTROYED. It appears like the Palestinians are showing the world they do NOT want peace, which is what I suspected might have been the case but was hoping was NOT. Did you guys notice how Palestinian textbooks have PALESTINE and NO ISRAEL printed on them?? Yeah, no brainwashing at all, eh?!?!??!?!?! I'm not even going to get into the anti Semitic anti Jew hatred spewed in Palestinian classrooms. I just fail to see how the hell you can negotiate with the likes of those who possess an irrational hatred and want you DEAD or GONE. If Hamas gets their sh!t together, renounces violence, AND states Israel has a right to exist, I'll change my mind. Too bad the odds of that happening in my life time are about as likely as pigs flying. Every time they've been offered some sort of state in the past, they balk and bitch. It's because they want Israel to cease to exist!!!!!! So you tell me who's being unreasonable again???

I read that 54% of Palestians in a recent survey claim they want peace... almost half do NOT want it!!!! Tell me again why they should get their own state? And for those who want peace, how do they intend to get it?? By wasting Israel and killing Jews? Negotating in a logical manner and recognizing the state of Israel? There's a lot of ambiguity regarding just WHAT they DO want.

Palestine has never even existed as a country. I don't know my history too well but I thought Palestine was the name for the old home land of the Jews thousands of years ago. Considering Judaism and Christianity have been around much longer than Islam, it seems as though they'd have claim to the land before the Muslims if you are going to argue it from a religious standpoint. The Arabs invaded that region of the Middle East at a later date. Plus many of the Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank are the descendants of displaced Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians, you get the idea. The Palis are the redheaded stepchild of the Middle East and get greated better by Israelis than by their own Arab 'brothers'. I wonder why the Pals aren't more pissed off at their fellow Muslims instead of despising 5 million Jews. They need to stop scapegoating and take responsibility for their sh!tty plight once and for all.

[Jimmy Leeds]

Ther are still for the destruction of Israel.

Guess they want more sand to walk in.

[brylin18]

Palestine has never even existed as a country. I don't know my history too well but I thought Palestine was the name for the old home land of the Jews thousands of years ago. Considering Judaism and Christianity have been around much longer than Islam, it seems as though they'd have claim to the land before the Muslims if you are going to argue it from a religious standpoint. The Arabs invaded that region of the Middle East at a later date. Plus many of the Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank are the descendants of displaced Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians, you get the idea. The Palis are the redheaded stepchild of the Middle East and get greated better by Israelis than by their own Arab 'brothers'. I wonder why the Pals aren't more pissed off at their fellow Muslims instead of despising 5 million Jews. They need to stop scapegoating and take responsibility for their sh!tty plight once and for all.

please, open a history book before make yourself look any dumber. israel didn't exist before 1948. their "war of independance" was a mad dash land grab with boatloads of eastern european jews shipped in to consolidate colonial europe's last curse on the world.

for you to be stating that the palestinians are anti-semites is beyond idiotic. palestinians ARE semites. most israelies are NOT semites. most of them are descendants of eastern europeans. quite frankly, you are the one being anti-semitic. read a book for god's sake.

[Swede]

Palestine has never even existed as a country. I don't know my history too well but I thought Palestine was the name for the old home land of the Jews thousands of years ago. Considering Judaism and Christianity have been around much longer than Islam, it seems as though they'd have claim to the land before the Muslims if you are going to argue it from a religious standpoint.

well, by that reasoning the indians should have back the US... right?

I simply do not get hoqw anyone can see so black/white on the situation. Both sides have behaved, and will continue to behave like "idiots". of course the palestines are going to elect a party that runs on "change and reform" over the one that they have had (that had stolen so much from their people)...

Ther are still for the destruction of Israel.

Guess they want more sand to walk in.

I'm really concerned about that they did not remove that when they decided to enter the election. I just hope that the UN has enough balls to force a change

[Devils731]

please, open a history book before make yourself look any dumber. israel didn't exist before 1948. their "war of independance" was a mad dash land grab with boatloads of eastern european jews shipped in to consolidate colonial europe's last curse on the world.

I don't see why you're getting that upset with him. He is correct that that region was the home to Jewish people before the Muslim population was moved in. He wasn't correct in thinking that it was called Palestine while the Jews were living there. Also, Israel did exist as an entity long before the 1900's, you can find reference to the area as the Land of Israel in the bible. Around 1000 BC the region had a king names Saul who unified the Hebrew tribes and formed the kingdom of Israel. I will choose not to call you names though.

[El Diablo]

Both sides have behaved, and will continue to behave like "idiots". ...

Yet only one side has decided to strap bombs to themselves and kill innocents at will...

[Jimmy Leeds]

MaddDog's a girl.

[Devils731]

MaddDog's a girl.

It was the royal him, like the royal we, encompassing both sexes.

[RowdyFan42]

please, open a history book before make yourself look any dumber. israel didn't exist before 1948. their "war of independance" was a mad dash land grab with boatloads of eastern european jews shipped in to consolidate colonial europe's last curse on the world.

for you to be stating that the palestinians are anti-semites is beyond idiotic. palestinians ARE semites. most israelies are NOT semites. most of them are descendants of eastern europeans. quite frankly, you are the one being anti-semitic. read a book for god's sake.

First of all, try figuring out someone's background before assuming they're a no-nothing blowhard. I don't know what you do for a living, but last I checked, MaddDog taught at a college in Connecticut (not sure if she's a professor or a TA); in fact, I believe she's a history teacher.

Second, crack open a dictionary. A Semite can be a Jew, and anti-Semitism is definitely hostility and/or discrimination toward Jews.

[brylin18]

I don't know what you do for a living, but last I checked, MaddDog taught at a college in Connecticut (not sure if she's a professor or a TA); in fact, I believe she's a history teacher.

Palestine has never even existed as a country. I don't know my history too well but .....blah blah blah

[MaddDog]

please, open a history book before make yourself look any dumber. israel didn't exist before 1948. their "war of independance" was a mad dash land grab with boatloads of eastern european jews shipped in to consolidate colonial europe's last curse on the world.

for you to be stating that the palestinians are anti-semites is beyond idiotic. palestinians ARE semites. most israelies are NOT semites. most of them are descendants of eastern europeans. quite frankly, you are the one being anti-semitic. read a book for god's sake.

Thanks for telling me I'm dumb. Nice tact.

Israel is a recognized nation and considered a legitimate state by the U.N. I guess you're going to tell me they don't exist now!??! Well, most countries do recognize Israel, but not most Arab nations anyway. Palestine is NOT an actual state.

Are you going to tell me the Jews were NOT there before the Muslims thousands of years ago?? As far as I'm concerned, they have a right to the land too. Thanks for neglecting to mention WHY Israel was created. You know, the lovely genocide where at least SIX MILLION Jews got slaughtered. So, for the Muslims to insist the Jews must be driven into the sea is bullsh!t. Funny how you mention the Jews fleeing there but you don't mention how many of the Palestinians fled there because they were treated like crap in their other Arab nations, or because Egypt/Jordan/etc told the Palestinians to go there so they could have the land after Israel lost the Six-Day War (you know, when the Arab world declared war on Israel first).

Ok, let me rephrase that ... many Palestinians are virulently ANTI JEWISH, how's that?? If they don't want me to perceive them that way, it would help if they put Israel in their school textbooks and didn't write poetry saying they want to be jihadist martyrs blowing up Jews.

Believe it or not, I personally wish that both Israel and a moderate Palestinian state could co-exist but I just don't see it happening.

Tell me how negotiation is possible if this is directly from the Hamas Charter:

Hamas Charter

Surat Al-Imran (III), verses 109-111 Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors

The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!

[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement (it doesn't sound like peace talks are considered, does it?)

When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurpation of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad (To them Israel IS Palestine)

We cannot fail to remind every Muslim that when the Jews occupied Holy Jerusalem in 1967 and stood at the doorstep of the Blessed Aqsa Mosque, they shouted with joy:

[Derek21]

There is far to omuch hatred on both sides, and there are certain party's on both sides that want peace. but the longer it takes to reach a peace agreement the more unlikely it becomes, becuasse as someone said many of the children are being raised to hate the other, and the more common that becomes the farther away we get from peace...

Absolutely 100 percent correct. It's a sad situation.

Palestine has never even existed as a country. I don't know my history too well but I thought Palestine was the name for the old home land of the Jews thousands of years ago. Considering Judaism and Christianity have been around much longer than Islam, it seems as though they'd have claim to the land before the Muslims if you are going to argue it from a religious standpoint. The Arabs invaded that region of the Middle East at a later date. Plus many of the Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank are the descendants of displaced Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians, you get the idea. The Palis are the redheaded stepchild of the Middle East and get greated better by Israelis than by their own Arab 'brothers'. I wonder why the Pals aren't more pissed off at their fellow Muslims instead of despising 5 million Jews. They need to stop scapegoating and take responsibility for their sh!tty plight once and for all.

That's an accurate description MD.

Take this for what it's worth. From what I heard on NPR, apparantly Hamas took "Israel must be destroyed" statements off their campaign literature before the election. Whether it's an actual softening of their stance or just something to appear moderate to get elected, no one really knows. All I can do is hope for the best.

Propaganda???

I don't see why you're getting that upset with him. He is correct that that region was the home to Jewish people before the Muslim population was moved in. He wasn't correct in thinking that it was called Palestine while the Jews were living there. Also, Israel did exist as an entity long before the 1900's, you can find reference to the area as the Land of Israel in the bible. Around 1000 BC the region had a king names Saul who unified the Hebrew tribes and formed the kingdom of Israel. I will choose not to call you names though.

First off, it's her. From what I remember, your post looks okay. bry is right that it didn't officially exist until 1948.

[brylin18]

i love how im getting messages from people telling me not to namecall. here you have an entire thread that is entitled "Palestinians = idiots". i don't have any respect for racists. you call a whole nation of people idiots, i will call you an idiot.

[NJDevs4978]

Huge difference between calling other people idiots for electing a terrorist organization to government and directing the same type of comment towards another poster who you know nothing about and just made a bunch of assumptions that were not true. She happens to be one of the smartest posters here as others have pointed out.

And as a general board rule name-calling and personal attacks directed toward other posters IS frowned on regardless, even here though unfortunately we tend to grow tired of babysitting this folder's discussions so it doesn't get enforced enough (hence the message up top)

Edited January 28, 2006 by Hasan4978

[HelenaHandbasket]

Yet only one side has decided to strap bombs to themselves and kill innocents at will...

The Israelis don't have to since they have an army. Not that I'm in favor of suicide bombings, but I can see the utility of it when you don't have a lot to work with.

Some basics on how Israel came to be. I like geeking out better than arguing.

[brylin18]

she may be smart about some things, but i think it is pretty clear that she is not smart about the history of this conflict (pssst.....israel did not lose the 6-day war).

what if there was a palestinian reading this board. what if he/she was personally offended by the title of this thread. what are you going to do to protect THAT person from name-calling and personal attacks.

if you truly want these boards to stay clean, you, as a board administrator, have a duty to not allow hate speech on these boards. if you want to allow hate speech, that's fine, but i will call it out every time i see it.

[NJDevs4978]

Well using that logic we can't call Pat Quinn or Bobby Clarke an idiot either, in case one of their relatives was reading the board or we can't call the Rangers idiots in case Ranger fans get offended. Hell I'm sure there've been Devil players that were called idiots too, I don't remember anyone raising too much of a fuss then.

If you want to call out ALL 'hate' speech wonderful, where were you the other 52535 posts in this forum where Repubs called Dems a bunch of lovely names and Dems called Repubs the same? I don't like the way this folder always degenerates into name-calling (which is obviously disallowed in any other folder) but that's what a lot of politics is these days unfortunately, and at least this folder keeps political talk here and it doesn't spill into other forums.

The last time this folder got eliminated everyone raised holy hell...but then again I think it was during the start of the Iraq war, people might be less passioniate about keeping it now I dunno. Maybe we should put it to a vote quite frankly, I could do without it myself...but of course the 15 or so people that consistently post here will probably get outvoted by the majority who don't and they'll scream bloody murder.

And make no mistake if this folder ever did get eliminated, there would be no political or war talk allowed ANYwhere on the board period - as there isn't now except for this folder. It's just too divisive.

Plus as far as her specific posts go, she admitted upfront she didn't know everything about the history of the conflict and you chose to use that as a convenient excuse to pick apart everything else in the posts.

BTW I've seen a lot worse garbage directed at Muslims in this folder than the title of this thread which seems to have raised your ire defending the Palestinians. And I'm part Muslim. But I'm not going to go suspend someone simply for being closed-minded.

Edited January 28, 2006 by Hasan4978

[El Diablo]

Not that I'm in favor of suicide bombings, but I can see the utility of it when you don't have a lot to work with.

Lol -you remind me of that old Kinison line about wife abuse "I dont condone it .. I understand it..."

[HelenaHandbasket]

Lol -you remind me of that old Kinison line about wife abuse "I dont condone it .. I understand it..."

Well, how would you fight an army if you didn't have one?

[El Diablo]

Well, how would you fight an army if you didn't have one?

By killing babies -children -women - men - people in buses -bars - restaurants - malls -trains -planes and towers... youre right...

[RowdyFan42]

Just for future reference to the board, I'm a Psychology professsor, not a History one. However, I do know this teacher who's getting his Ph.D. in HISTORY so the next time I see him I'm going to ask him a few things!!!!!!

I knew you taught *something*!

[MaddDog]

she may be smart about some things, but i think it is pretty clear that she is not smart about the history of this conflict (pssst.....israel did not lose the 6-day war)

I'm well aware that Israel WON the Six-Day War. Next time you say I have no clue about the conflict, you may want to re-read what I wrote:

Funny how you mention the Jews fleeing there but you don't mention how many of the Palestinians fled there because they were treated like crap in their other Arab nations, or because Egypt/Jordan/etc told the Palestinians to go there so they could have the land after Israel lost the Six-Day War

The surrounding Arab nations that declared war on Israel TOLD their Palestinian citizens that they could have the land for themselves once Israel was destroyed and no longer existed. Meaning, the Arab nations were sure Israel WOULD be defeated. Well, it obviously didn't pan out that way but that was one of the main motivations for the Palestinians to migrate there. Once Israel prevailed, the Palis were stuck in refugee camps and their own wonderful Arab neighbors did NOT want them back. Those Muslim nations were really compassionate, weren't they? I will never understand the outrage towards Israel when Muslims get absolved of ALL blame for their abuse towards the Palestinians!!!!!!!

In addition, your comment about hate speech and racism makes no sense. I think most people would have understood the gist of my original post - that their ACTIONS are IDIOTIC. And well, they are, when you consider it. They want their own state and yet they elect a friggin terrorist organization with NO prior political experience. Nice!!!! Plus how is it racist when I was under the impression that Palestinians are Caucasian?

Did you read anything I took the time to post last time, regarding the Hamas Charter? Hamas has publicly stated that Jews must be killed, Israel must be destroyed, Islam must rule over all religions, etc. To be honest, the more I read about them, the more I'm getting TALIBAN vibes and this is NOT a good thing. Consider the utter misery Afghans lived under when the Taliban regime took over, and how hideously women and girls were treated in that culture. It's already bad enough in the Palestinian terrorities with the internal strife and honor killings of females who've done nothing wrong. I'm not sure the Palis know what they've elected and just what will happen to them if Hamas is as fundamentalist as I think they might be (e.g., competely repressive theocracy). Let's hope not for their sake.

Oh, for those of you who wonder if Hamas will become more moderate:

Hamas Says It Will Not Change

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Following their resounding election victory, the Islamic militants of Hamas met the question of whether they will change their stripes with a loud "no": no recognition of Israel, no negotiations, no renunciation of terror.

But the world holds out hope that international pressure can make them more moderate. At stake is the future of Mideast peacemaking, billions of dollars in aid and the Palestinians' relationship with Israel, the United States and Europe.

And you wonder why I'm disgusted with the election results?? By electing these buffoons, Palestinians are (sadly) showing they don't want peace. Just HOW will this permit them to achieve their goal of a home state, I ask once again?? Hell, I think Hamas ASSASSINATED a rival Fatah candidate just prior to the election. Can you imagine the Democrats killing Bush during the pre-election run up and Kerry winning the Presidency?!?!?

Losing the millions and billions of aid may get them to change their tune in public and present a moderate public visage, but even then it sounds like they'll be supporting and sponsoring terrorism in a covert manner. Neither scenario is good. I find this sad more than anything. The Palestinians will never have a thriving, vibrant economy and populace as long as they cling to this irrational hatred and persistently scapegoat Israel as the cause of all their ills. Even Fatah was more or less a terrorist group in disguise. The Palestinian leadership has harmed the Pals more than Israel ever could (e.g., indoctrination of venomous anti Jewish beliefs, Hamas/Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigades/Islamic Jihad promoting terror, Arafat stealing billions in aid over the years).