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ARENA2005

Stop The Crying!

30 posts in this topic

NJ still needs more! Cracks me up! Typical fans here that can't grasp the fact that NJ has won 2 Cups while WE ARE STILL rebuilding "ON THE FLY" since 95! Meanwhile, the rest of the NHL try to catch up while the system here works financially and also WINS CUPS!

What have the Rangers done since 94? Lose. Philly, Clarke is still trying to figure out what Lou is doing while they lose. Let's just talk East and see what NJ has done as a Team that resides primarily on a fan base in 5 NJ counties that wins CUPS! It CONFOUNDS THE REST OF THE LEAGUE!

Every game you cry about because the Devs lose by a goal, remember that the fans at the Garden, Boston, Philly, LA, Toronto, and Ottawa will always look over their shoulder and what NJ is doing with a 53 million budget. The highest payroll we've had!

What team over the last 20 years, since "real" free agency has delivered like the Devils? Red Wings=$$$$ while The Lions are nothing! Get the point! Stop the crying and be happy with a team that will go down in history as one of the best!

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Arena,

with all due respect.....your diatribe is misplaced, incoherent and contradictory.

I dont believe people on this board take the Devils for granted.

I dont know if you could label the fans who frequent this board as typical fans...whether we agree with each others opinions or not.. the opinions (most often) come from knowledgable passionate Devil/hockey fans.

And can you explain how the fact that the team has excelled over the past has anything to do with how they will succeed now??? ....If you dont think the team has pieces that need to be filled, fine thats your opinion. I hope your right, well all want what is best for this team....and come here to discuss it. That is not crying. as Burns said "NJ has a higher standard and expectations" so do their fans.....

for you info:

see what NJ has done as a Team that resides primarily on a fan base in 5 NJ counties that wins CUPS!

Those five counties have the follwing population as of the 2000 census.

Bergen County 884,118

Essex County 793,633

Hudson County 608,975

Morris County 480,212

Passaic County 489,049

total 3,255,987

which would rank it nationally right between

13 Seattle, Tacoma, Bremerton, WA at 3,554,760

14 Phoenix, Mesa, AZ MSA at 3,251,876

and well ahead of ....some other NHL cities + their metro areas. you may have heard of.

19 Denver, Boulder, Greeley, CO at 2,581,506

22 Pittsburgh, PA MSA at 2,358,695

33 Columbus, OH MSA at 1,540,157

39 Nashville, TN MSA at 1,231,311

43 Buffalo, Niagara Falls, NY MSA at 1,170,111

Populations of US Metro Areas Ranked By Size

It CONFOUNDS THE REST OF THE LEAGUE!
really Arena? how is that? and what exactly was your point again?

Now...I'm not taking away from what the Devils have done ..but your point is moot.

before your next rant....it would be best to have your facts straight.

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my father once calculated the population of the area that, more often than not, likes the devils and it came to nearly 6 million.

however, location plays the biggest role in all of this. no train routes. no restaurant/bar access. you go to the game, you leave. in cities it is an experience. when i work a caps game i can go to a bar afterwards... about 30 are in walking distance. how many are walking distance from caa? 0. or restaurants. 50 near mci, 0 near caa. don't tell me that doesn't play a role.

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What I think is the biggest problem the Devils face in New Jersey is that they're in the middle of two long-time teams with HUGE fan bases. They have all the talent in the world and the organization builds extremely well, but just how many people do they think they're gonna pick up from the diehards in that region. Pretty much if you're into hockey, then you're already "with" one of those two teams.

They have picked up some great diehard Devils fans. I just don't think there are all that many to pick up. So what's left is more passive fans who maybe one game a month or even a season is enough (until playoffs which is obviously exciting) or fans who just can't afford to be there so often.

The Devils fan base is HUGE outside of New Jersey. They gotta be like top five overall. And that's because diehard hockey fans outside the region DO see what they are and how they're built.

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The Devils fan base is HUGE outside of New Jersey. They gotta be like top five overall. And that's because diehard hockey fans outside the region DO see what they are and how they're built.

I don't know if I agree with that; they are probably in the top five as far as being respected but I can't believe they are one of the top 5 teams in terms of popularity or fans in the NHL.

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The Devils fan base is HUGE outside of New Jersey. They gotta be like top five overall. And that's because diehard hockey fans outside the region DO see what they are and how they're built.

I don't know if I agree with that; they are probably in the top five as far as being respected but I can't believe they are one of the top 5 teams in terms of popularity or fans in the NHL.

It may sound strange. But I believe it's true based on a lot of things. Like seeing half Devils jerseys at All-Star game weekend. Literally one out of every let's say eight was Devils. It was a dominating performance.

And then things like message boards and chat rooms where there are a lot of Devils fans... The Devils fan club is said to be the biggest of its kind.

So not saying they're tops, but I'd say they've earned quite a bit of respect and fans for what they've done and how they've done it. Probably behind like the Avs and Wings and Leafs and probably Rangers and possibly Flyers but maybe not...

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For me it's not crying as much as looking for assurance from fellow fans that they can win the whole ball of wax again this year.

I can't be content thinking "oh yeay! playoffs again!" It's even harder with the "yeay! finals again!" so I want to feel confident going in at least that they can win the cup again. I don't feel so right now with this last little spate of games.

Sure -- I can say "yippee they came back from behind!" but I'd rather focus on how can they avoid losing the lead and ending up with a lousy stinking tie AGAIN. It's a bad habit I'd like to see them trash!

But I agree they're great! I am certainly not looking to leap onto some other team's bandwagon! I'm greedy I confess!

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I agree with ESB's points as well. And you definitely can't rank the metro areas like that. This is a shared metro area with X number of hockey fans. Ranger fans who live in NJ & haven't converted yet, never will.

And don't discount the fact that all the major networks are NY networks. They cover the Devils when they play, but the city is the city.

News 12 is about the only home-town ra-ra for the Devils there is & ironically they're owned by Cablevision. Go figure.

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What about Sussex county? If Devil's fans don't get any respect, Then us Sussex county fans are truly the leagues red headed step-children. :lol:

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that's an interesting analysis of the population. I don't know Jersey geography that well but I wonder how many of those people in the five counties can get home from the arena w/i one-half an hour. It just seems like there's nothing within 10 miles or so to begin with.

Then you look at the location of Nassau coliseum and draw a 15 mile circle around it, you probably reach more than 3 million right there. There's 2 mil in Nassau, close to 1 mil in Western Suffolk and probably 1.5 mil in eastern queens. All those people can get home within 1/2 hour. And for the most part its all affulent areas. (I'm probably close to 20 miles and I'm home in less than 25 minutes once I'm out of the parking lot.)

There are tons of other factors why I think the Isles do better (e.g., the history and they actually have an identity with Long Island unlike the Devs), but it just seems to work out better.

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I live 60 miles from CAA and still make it up there for 3-4 games a year. I live in Mercer county and the area is traditionally philly teams. Nobody on this board is going to dispute the results of the last 10 years with the two cups and three final appearances.

This doesn't however keep them from criticizing perceived weak points on a team they love. I see no fault in it, and we can all be sure Lou is training the same critical eye on his team to make sure they can bring us another cup.

Us, being the fans who post here.

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for ESB:

Average attendance while on the road:

1. Detroit 18,116

2. NY Rangers 17,412

3. Pittsburgh 17,183

4. Chicago 17,166

5. Colorado 17,090

6. Toronto 17,074

7. Boston 16,907

8. New Jersey 16,834

I'd have to say it is DEFINITELY true. Nearly all (5/6) of the original six teams are there, take them out and we'd be third. The Canadiens are actually middle of the road in terms of away attendance.

Islanders are 25th. Just a week ago I read a post on FlyersPhans.com saying that the Devils attendance is hurting the league whereas the Isles attendance is booming; they should cut it down to two NY metro teams.

Should we? Sure, the Islanders have a better attendance, but not even by 350 people a game. Sure that's 350 tickets unsold, but let's look at the bigger picture averaging out the average home and away attendances:

Isles: 14,720+15,666=30,336/2=15,193

Devs: 14374+16,834=31,208/2=15,604

So, for all intense and purpose, the Isles attendance is hurting the NHL more than the Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!

Basically I saw this FlyersPhans.com post and got extremely pissed off - they looked at one side of the issue without digging deeper. It's so easy to do that. Everybody does that. But me, being defensive about the Devils, I dug deeper.

The averaged-out difference is 411. 411x82=33,702 seats!!!

Yes the Devils attendance is hurting the Devils, BUT IT IS NOT HURTING THE NHL MORE THAN THE ISLANDERS!!! LOOK AT THE FACTS FLYERSPHANS.COM!!!

Rant over.

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This poster on FlyersPhans.com argued that we should eiminate the 6 teams with the worst attendance, moving three to more hockey-oriented cities (a.k.a. North of the Mason Dixon line).

I COMPLETELY AGREE.

However, showing his or her bias against the Devils, the poster used cooked statistics to justify New Jersey's removal from the NHL.

HERE ARE THE real statistics. The worst six overall attendances of the NHL:

25. Anaheim 15,201

26. NY Islanders 15,193

27. Buffalo 15,139

28. Atlanta 14,428

29. Phoenix 14,409

30. Nashville 14,197

Let's ask a simple question: IS NEW JERSEY ON THIS LIST?

No! Simple as mathematics, people.

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MrSheeps, did you post these 2 posts at the Flyers junk place??

Cause you really should if you already haven't.

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Nah NJay, I made a fool of myself on the Flyers board and have vowed to never go back.

Well, I vowed never to go back when I tried once and they didn't accept the idea that I could change.

That's why I'm so adamant about the rule: If you're going to post on another team's board, be classy about it.

I sure wasn't and I truly regret it.

[Plus if I simply copied and pasted those two threads they would be angry not because of the facts but because of the deliberately anti-FlyersPhans.com tone.]

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for ESB:

Average attendance while on the road:

1. Detroit 18,116

2. NY Rangers 17,412

3. Pittsburgh 17,183

4. Chicago 17,166

5. Colorado 17,090

6. Toronto 17,074

7. Boston 16,907

8. New Jersey 16,834

I'd have to say it is DEFINITELY true. Nearly all (5/6) of the original six teams are there, take them out and we'd be third. The Canadiens are actually middle of the road in terms of away attendance.

And I'd add that a lot of those teams are carrying specific fan bases into those games. I don't really know too many Bruins/Habs fans not from that area. Same with the Blackhawks... (except for one guy who posts here who's a secondary fan).

The Devils have earned themselves a pretty nice fan base.

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The Devils bring in people at away arenas not only because of their large out-of-area fanbase but also because of the quality of games they bring. No matter who they play, it is a good game.

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Arena,

with all due respect.....your diatribe is misplaced, incoherent and contradictory.

I dont believe people on this board take the Devils for granted.

I dont know if you could label the fans who frequent this board as typical fans...whether we agree with each others opinions or not.. the opinions (most often) come from knowledgable passionate Devil/hockey fans.

And can you explain how the fact that the team has excelled over the past has anything to do with how they will succeed now??? ....If you dont think the team has pieces that need to be filled, fine thats your opinion. I hope your right, well all want what is best for this team....and come here to discuss it. That is not crying. as Burns said "NJ has a higher standard and expectations" so do their fans.....

for you info:

see what NJ has done as a Team that resides primarily on a fan base in 5 NJ counties that wins CUPS!

Those five counties have the follwing population as of the 2000 census.

Bergen County 884,118

Essex County 793,633

Hudson County 608,975

Morris County 480,212

Passaic County 489,049

total 3,255,987

which would rank it nationally right between

13 Seattle, Tacoma, Bremerton, WA at 3,554,760

14 Phoenix, Mesa, AZ MSA at 3,251,876

and well ahead of ....some other NHL cities + their metro areas. you may have heard of.

19 Denver, Boulder, Greeley, CO at 2,581,506

22 Pittsburgh, PA MSA at 2,358,695

33 Columbus, OH MSA at 1,540,157

39 Nashville, TN MSA at 1,231,311

43 Buffalo, Niagara Falls, NY MSA at 1,170,111

Populations of US Metro Areas Ranked By Size

It CONFOUNDS THE REST OF THE LEAGUE!
really Arena? how is that? and what exactly was your point again?

Now...I'm not taking away from what the Devils have done ..but your point is moot.

before your next rant....it would be best to have your facts straight.

That's fine, as I have total respect for your opinion. It's what the board is all about and think it's great you spent the time to post.

Best Regards,

D

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The Devils bring in people at away arenas not only because of their large out-of-area fanbase but also because of the quality of games they bring. No matter who they play, it is a good game.

Agreed. But increasingly there are people in Devils jerseys too. :)

I remember some kind of interview with Dano last year. He said, every year in every arena there are a few more than the year before.

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WE HAVE OUR OWN BANDWAGON!

I'm so proud. :wub:

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HERE ARE THE real statistics. The worst six overall attendances of the NHL:

25. Anaheim 15,201

26. NY Islanders 15,193

27. Buffalo 15,139

28. Atlanta 14,428

29. Phoenix 14,409

30. Nashville 14,197

Do you have the stats on what % of the available seats are filled? The Isles figure is low, but their capacity is only 16,500 or so. Maybe less.

Arrowhead Pond ~17,000

America West Arena ~16,200

HSBC Arena ~18,700

Phillips Arena ~18,750

Gaylord Enterntainment Center ~17,500

All are less than CAA.

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That's fine, as I have total respect for your opinion. It's what the board is all about and think it's great you spent the time to post.

Best Regards,

D

thank you for the classy response.

regards

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Nah NJay, I made a fool of myself on the Flyers board and have vowed to never go back.

Well, I vowed never to go back when I tried once and they didn't accept the idea that I could change.

That's why I'm so adamant about the rule: If you're going to post on another team's board, be classy about it.

I sure wasn't and I truly regret it.

[Plus if I simply copied and pasted those two threads they would be angry not because of the facts but because of the deliberately anti-FlyersPhans.com tone.]

"Never go back", saw that and reminded me of a great band. I cracked up as I thought you were referring to Dag Nasty.

"And can you explain how the fact that the team has excelled over the past has anything to do with how they will succeed now???"

Yes, it's because this team plays a system based on concept and not superfluous needs . What is the concept? Goaltending and solid defense that will give an average offense a chance to win. The Wild are an example of this and who is their coach? Thank you Lou.

"How they will succeed now?"... Like they have in the past; Evaluating talent that matches the core concept of the team, so that it will make them better now and also the near future.

Peace! "NEVER GO BACK.... NEVER GO BACK!"

DJ!

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Arena,

with all due respect.....your diatribe is misplaced, incoherent and contradictory.

I dont believe people on this board take the Devils for granted.

I dont know if you could label the fans who frequent this board as typical fans...whether we agree with each others opinions or not.. the opinions (most often) come from knowledgable passionate Devil/hockey fans.

And can you explain how the fact that the team has excelled over the past has anything to do with how they will succeed now??? ....If you dont think the team has pieces that need to be filled, fine thats your opinion. I hope your right, well all want what is best for this team....and come here to discuss it. That is not crying. as Burns said "NJ has a higher standard and expectations" so do their fans.....

for you info:

see what NJ has done as a Team that resides primarily on a fan base in 5 NJ counties that wins CUPS!

Those five counties have the follwing population as of the 2000 census.

Bergen County 884,118

Essex County 793,633

Hudson County 608,975

Morris County 480,212

Passaic County 489,049

total 3,255,987

which would rank it nationally right between

13 Seattle, Tacoma, Bremerton, WA at 3,554,760

14 Phoenix, Mesa, AZ MSA at 3,251,876

and well ahead of ....some other NHL cities + their metro areas. you may have heard of.

19 Denver, Boulder, Greeley, CO at 2,581,506

22 Pittsburgh, PA MSA at 2,358,695

33 Columbus, OH MSA at 1,540,157

39 Nashville, TN MSA at 1,231,311

43 Buffalo, Niagara Falls, NY MSA at 1,170,111

Populations of US Metro Areas Ranked By Size

It CONFOUNDS THE REST OF THE LEAGUE!
really Arena? how is that? and what exactly was your point again?

Now...I'm not taking away from what the Devils have done ..but your point is moot.

before your next rant....it would be best to have your facts straight.

"13 Seattle, Tacoma, Bremerton, WA at 3,554,760

14 Phoenix, Mesa, AZ MSA at 3,251,876

and well ahead of ....some other NHL cities + their metro areas. you may have heard of.

19 Denver, Boulder, Greeley, CO at 2,581,506

22 Pittsburgh, PA MSA at 2,358,695

33 Columbus, OH MSA at 1,540,157

39 Nashville, TN MSA at 1,231,311

43 Buffalo, Niagara Falls, NY MSA at 1,170,111

Populations of US Metro Areas Ranked By Size"

Respect the population study, great stuff! Can you give me the the demographic's on the entire state county by county? Thanks! I never knew there was close to a million people in Bergen County! Wow!

My friend is from Malta and would like to know the demographic's of Bergen alone.

Thanks for the help!

Best Regards,

D

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