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NJDevs4978

Met collapse

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So who deserves the blame for this fiasco? :rant:

If this were Survivor I'd vote Willie off the island asap. Normally I wouldn't bother advocating it since the man got an extension this offseason and usually coaches aren't fired so soon into one, but this collapse is so staggering and this team's play has been so disheartening the whole season that I don't see where ownership has a choice. Plus they themselves have issues with him as evidenced by some of Jeff Wilpon's recent quotes and rightly so.

But he's far from the only person that can take a hike.

Rickey Henderson - yeah I know, a first base coach. But since he got here Reyes's game has turned to crap (he was supposed to be the prize pupil). And he sets a bad example with his me-centric behavior.

Mota - Omar's biggest black mark was bringing this guy back. The Mets were 33-17 before he was added to the active roster and 54-56 since he returned from suspension. Is that not an indictment of a player or what :blink:

Green - I like the guy, one of the few Mets that hustled for the whole year but you just can't have a starting corner outfielder around with no speed or power.

Sele - goes without saying. Why management let him take a roster spot the entire season when it was obvious early on you weren't getting diddly from him is beyond me.

Sosa - I'll admit the guy helped us out pretty good the first couple months out of the rotation and for a two-three week stretch in the pen. But this guy just screams loserdom to me, I don't know why - maybe it's all his time in Tampa, or the 3-13 year last year, or the fact he couldn't get anyone out the last two months. Plus it's obvious he can't sustain any success over a full season.

Wagner - Okay he's not going to go, he's still one of the better closers in baseball statistically yadda yadda yadda. But he's actually worse than Benitez. I never thought I'd ever say that. He just blows every big game in sight.

Glavine - Got #300, a great baseball moment...but ridiculously inconsistent for this year as for most of his Met tenure. A medical marvel and class act, but a 40+ year old starter with a 4.5 ERA in the NL just isn't going to cut it anymore.

Pelfrey - I just don't see what this guy brings. He has no secondary pitches at all, and his fastball while decent isn't exactly Wagneresque. He had one good start (which I never saw) and the rest of the season it was nibble, nibble and bleed to death.

Milledge - I'm tired of him too. I realize you can't always give up on prospects and he had a nice stretch but this guy just rubs me the wrong way. Both with his diva behavior last year and with his scary tirade this year. Plus his defense just reeks. He's a DH in the making. I'd rather see Gomez and this kid Fernando Martinez be outfielders of the future.

Any reject #5 starter - How many games did Lawrence, Vargas, Dave Williams and Chan Ho Park cost us this year? Around 8-9? I realize you can't have ten starting-caliber pitchers on the roster but you also can't put an inordinate amount of trust in garbage pitchers either.

Edited by Hasan4978

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Everyone (in the Mets organization)..

'nuff said.. seriously.

Edited by nmigliore

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I don't watch the Mets that often, but I did tonight. Jose Reyes is clearly injured or fatigued. I don't think Rickey Henderson has anything to do with that.

Randolph should go, but the real person at fault is Minaya. It was a sad bit of irony for Mets fans when Matt Lindstrom struck out 3 in the 7th. Minaya never should've gotten Castillo, and Shawn Green should've never started in right.

Edited by Triumph

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If this were Survivor I'd vote Willie off the island asap. Normally I wouldn't bother advocating it since the man got an extension this offseason and usually coaches aren't fired so soon into one, but this collapse is so staggering and this team's play has been so disheartening the whole season that I don't see where ownership has a choice. Plus they themselves have issues with him as evidenced by some of Jeff Wilpon's recent quotes and rightly so.

My biggest question for the Mets fans who want Willie gone is this: Is there someone out there right now who would virtually guarantee you 7+ wins right off the bat? Some may argue Giradi, but ok he had 1 very good season, and that is all..I like Joe and think he can be a heck of a manager, but the record is not there, yet.

Rickey Henderson - yeah I know, a first base coach. But since he got here Reyes's game has turned to crap (he was supposed to be the prize pupil). And he sets a bad example with his me-centric behavior.

I agree with this Hasan. Rickey is not a guy that makes you want to do your best IMO. Wasn't he playing cards during Game 6 of the LCS when he was with the Mets? I even remember him dogging it with the Yankees in the Mid 80's. Say goodbye to Ricky.

Mota - Omar's biggest black mark was bringing this guy back. The Mets were 33-17 before he was added to the active roster and 54-56 since he returned from suspension. Is that not an indictment of a player or what :blink:

It seems to me ever since he got chased by a crazed Mike Piazza, he has never been what he was. He is living off 1 awesome season.

Green - I like the guy, one of the few Mets that hustled for the whole year but you just can't have a starting corner outfielder around with no speed or power.

Nice guy to have on your bench if need be, but a starting corner OF for a high level spending team like the Mets will not work.

Sele - goes without saying. Why management let him take a roster spot the entire season when it was obvious early on you weren't getting diddly from him is beyond me.

I cannot believe he is still in baseball. He is the right handed Jessie Orosco, at least Jessie was a LEFTY!

Sosa - I'll admit the guy helped us out pretty good the first couple months out of the rotation and for a two-three week stretch in the pen. But this guy just screams loserdom to me, I don't know why - maybe it's all his time in Tampa, or the 3-13 year last year, or the fact he couldn't get anyone out the last two months. Plus it's obvious he can't sustain any success over a full season.

Meh, I would'nt be so quick to move this guy. Maybe he has been worn down, who knows...I'd give him another shot.

Wagner - Okay he's not going to go, he's still one of the better closers in baseball statistically yadda yadda yadda. But he's actually worse than Benitez. I never thought I'd ever say that. He just blows every big game in sight

Worse the Bentiez? Oh my..even as a Yankee fan, he scares me, that is how bad Wagner is.

Glavine - Got #300, a great baseball moment...but ridiculously inconsistent for this year as for most of his Met tenure. A medical marvel and class act, but a 40+ year old starter with a 4.5 ERA in the NL just isn't going to cut it anymore.

Is he still signed for next year? I mean he is not THAT bad to have around , if he is your #4 or #5, a la Mussina.

Milledge - I'm tired of him too. I realize you can't always give up on prospects and he had a nice stretch but this guy just rubs me the wrong way. Both with his diva behavior last year and with his scary tirade this year. Plus his defense just reeks. He's a DH in the making. I'd rather see Gomez and this kid Fernando Martinez be outfielders of the future.

Seems to me this guy just does not have it upstairs to be an upper echelon player. Maybe he needs another organization to harness his talent, who knows.

Any reject #5 starter - How many games did Lawrence, Vargas, Dave Williams and Chan Ho Park cost us this year? Around 8-9? I realize you can't have ten starting-caliber pitchers on the roster but you also can't put an inordinate amount of trust in garbage pitchers either.

Agreed. It is not like the Mets are hurting for $. Chan Ho Park for a large payroll team? Cmon Omar...

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Met$ are getting in.

Book it.

When Matt friggin Chico is baffling your lineup the day before the end of the season in a big game, it is truly over.

It is Philadelphia. It's a lock it WONT happen.

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My biggest question for the Mets fans who want Willie gone is this: Is there someone out there right now who would virtually guarantee you 7+ wins right off the bat? Some may argue Giradi, but ok he had 1 very good season, and that is all..I like Joe and think he can be a heck of a manager, but the record is not there, yet.

At this point I honestly don't care, though I like Girardi. He's probably a Davey Johnson in the making (he'll piss off people but get the most out of them).

Willie is not only an awful baseball manager but he lost control of this team long ago. You've got Reyes playing like jacks-it, even not running out a chopper yesterday! And Milledge losing track of the outs is just inexcusable when your season's on the line. And if the team's making these mistakes now you know they were making them in May and June. That's just inexcusable especially for a veteran team. Willie just never did anything about this nonsense except for the one time he benched Reyes for a lousy inning in Houston after he did something ridiculously obvious he had no choice. The utter lack of focus on this year's Met team is just mind-boggling, just such a waste of talent. They make the 2001 Devils look like choirboys.

Nice guy to have on your bench if need be, but a starting corner OF for a high level spending team like the Mets will not work.

True, I'd take Green back as a bench player but some bad team will probably offer him a chance to start.

Meh, I would'nt be so quick to move this guy. Maybe he has been worn down, who knows...I'd give him another shot.

I probably was too hard on Sosa but it seems to me when you have a pen that is as awful as it has been this year, you've got to change more than Mota and Sele. Wagner, Heilman and Feliciano are definites to be back, probably Schowenweis too since he's actually pitched better lately and had health issues supposedly in the first half. Maybe Sosa can replace Sele as the 'long' guy.

Seems to me this guy just does not have it upstairs to be an upper echelon player. Maybe he needs another organization to harness his talent, who knows.

Milledge has talent but he's the perfect poster boy for this year's Mets team, no effort or focus to be found. Even NOW he jogged after a Willis double turning it into a triple! And don't think his wild celebrations yesterday after HR's didn't fire up the Marlins as much as that silly beanball nonsense. I mean come on, you've just gone 4-10 in your last 14 games and he personally hadn't done a thing in weeks. There's a time to just stfu.

Is he still signed for next year? I mean he is not THAT bad to have around , if he is your #4 or #5, a la Mussina.

I believe there's an option, not sure if it's club or player...but he is DONE. Four runs in the first inning and counting...all the way up to seven! Thanks for nothing these last three starts :rant: Glavine looked like Eddie Cicotte in Eight Men Out :angry:

Edited by Hasan4978

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That first inning was a disaster for the Mets

7-1 Marlins

3-1 Phillies as of right now.

Edited by Satans Hockey

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Mets lost.. Theres gonna be hell to pay for those fish.. Im not just saying this because they beat the MEts but they are big douche-bags. Anyone read the Record article about the Marlins this morning? a$$holes like Ramirez making ridiculous comments about how hes gonna kick the Mets' "butts" .. and Olivo's comments were even more disrespectful, who pointed that he can beat up anyone/anytime, i would love to see that fvck say that to my face.. maybe he should learn to be a catcher the fvckin jerk he is, i swear if i was at the Mets game today and if Olivo came up to bat i would've tackled his ass and got thrown out and fined, it would be well worth it! Olivo also singled out Perez and DiFelice as being "garbage" players.. fvck you stupid MArlins, you are only crying because you are in dead last.. fish fried once again.

Watch your back next year Olivo... if you even are with the fish.. which i doubt..

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First baseman Carlos Delgado: "We've got so much talent, I think sometimes we get bored."

Pitcher Pedro Martinez: "We have so much talent that sometimes we relax a little bit."

"Sometimes when you're a team as talented as we are - I don't know if I'd use the word 'bored,' but I guess you can get complacent at times," Tom Glavine said.

http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs...STS14/709280361

The reason why they blew a 7 game lead with 17 to play is because they were too talented.

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I still think this is ridiculous though.. I mean how can they lose? How can Glavine fvck up so big? I guess this means hes gone? I don't want him back in a NY uni next year! Go home you used up sh!t.. Theres one HUGE reason of why hockey is the best sport - because you can come out with grit to win; you cant do that in baseball. You may be pumped up but if your pitcher isn't throwing strikes, you can't do anything about it.. Its gonna be a long off-season..

My Moves

- Dont fire Willie JUST yet.. give him at LEAST another couple months into the 2008 season.

- Dont resign LoDuca. His temper has costed this team and hes terrible as a catcher, hes only DECENT at blocking balls.. Castro > LoDuca no question.

- Dont resign Glavine. I really loved his season, I thought he did excellent.. But when he needed to step up most, he proved he's nothing more than a used-up pitcher who can't handle a big game. Now I understand why he never pitched Game 6 or 7 of last season's NLCS.. Sorry Tommy but after this terrible outting I doubt you will be wanted back in Queens.. Either retire or go to Atlanta.. But please Minaya, dont resign Tom.

- NEW BULLPEN.. People like Schoewenweis and Smith are decent, let them stay.. People like Mota and Heilman and Feliciano need to GO.

- Resign Castillo, hes WAY more valuable than Valentin in my opinion.. let Valentin retire or sign with another team!

- IF Glavine departs we need a big name pitcher.. I haven't looked over any big-name starters who are UFAs but I really think we need an Ace.. And knowing Minaya from how he speaks in interviews, he is all about pitching and defense. So if Glavine goes, its HUGE to try and sign a young Ace pitcher..

Those are the my briefs

Edited by nmigliore

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First baseman Carlos Delgado: "We've got so much talent, I think sometimes we get bored."

Pitcher Pedro Martinez: "We have so much talent that sometimes we relax a little bit."

"Sometimes when you're a team as talented as we are - I don't know if I'd use the word 'bored,' but I guess you can get complacent at times," Tom Glavine said.

http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs...STS14/709280361

The reason why they blew a 7 game lead with 17 to play is because they were too talented.

I gagged when I saw all of those quotes earlier in the week. But anyone that's watched the team all year could see it was true in this team's play and demeanor, the quotes merely confirmed it. The only good thing from this is that a lot of the unearned arrogance will be knocked out of this team now. The question is how many of them will be around to redeem themselves next year?

The most helpless feeling I've had as a sports fan since the Devils missing the playoffs as defending champs in '96...but this is even five times worse than that. That wasn't the worst collapse in sports history, hell missing the playoffs at 86 points was something of anomaly. This is just an absolute disaster and heads have to roll. The only question is how many.

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I'm not a hardcore Mets fan, but they are my favorite team and I root for them casually. What happened this year even bothers me and I hope that next year the Mets will feel that they have something to prove.

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Wow.

Just wow.

First and foremost, Willie's gotta go. No "evaluation" of the job he did...fire his ass tomorrow. It's not fair to say EVERYTHING that went wrong was his fault, but far too often this team was unmotivated and complacent...pretty unbelievable for a team that hadn't actually won anything. That falls heavily on the manager. Willie's lifeless demeanor in the dugout seals the deal as far as I'm concerned. He just oversaw the worst late-regular season collapse in MLB history, and will forever be one of the punchlines on the sorry joke that is the 2007 New York Mets. He doesn't deserve to keep his job.

Tom Glavine...don't let the door hit on you on the ass on your way out. This guy never wanted to be a Met in the first place, and would have bolted back to Atlanta in a heartbeat after last season if they'd showed the slightest interest in him. He may have worn the Met jersey, but deep down this guy's always thought of himself as a Brave. His 300th win was a nice moment, but the Mets basically paid him superstar dollars for mediocre-to-pretty good results. When the team need him most (his last three starts), he couldn't have possibly been any worse. Screw him.

Aaron Heilman...either give him a shot at making the rotation (there will be openings next year), or trade him. But enough with using him as a set-up man.

El Duque...still capable of great perfomances, but too damn brittle. Can't be counted on to stay healthy.

Paul LoDuca...hard not to like his fire, but he's reaching that dangerous age for catchers. Time to move on and give Castro a shot at a full-time job.

Jose Reyes...grow the fvck up!

Lastings Milledge...see above.

Outside of Wright, Reyes, and Beltran (I'm not a big Beltran guy, but he does have talent and likely won't fetch equal value in a trade), I'm for trading anyone else if the right deal is out there. This team is about as unlikable a team as there is.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976

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The Mets could have really used Scott Kazmir down the stretch.

That's old news and happened under a past regime.

We can't keep bringing that one up every time things don't go our way.

Yes, it was an awful deal, but we can't harp on that one forever.

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I gagged when I saw all of those quotes earlier in the week. But anyone that's watched the team all year could see it was true in this team's play and demeanor, the quotes merely confirmed it. The only good thing from this is that a lot of the unearned arrogance will be knocked out of this team now. The question is how many of them will be around to redeem themselves next year?

The most helpless feeling I've had as a sports fan since the Devils missing the playoffs as defending champs in '96...but this is even five times worse than that. That wasn't the worst collapse in sports history, hell missing the playoffs at 86 points was something of anomaly. This is just an absolute disaster and heads have to roll. The only question is how many.

What bothers me too is that the Cubs are in the playoffs. Now do they really deserve to be? They only won 83 games as of today and they clinched their division with 3 games to spare.. talk about easiest division in the MLB? I hate it when teams like this make it.. I hope they get swept in the 1st round. No way a team with barely over 80 wins deserves to be in the post-season.. And yes you can see an awkwardness in the Mets play all season long. I dont think they would've gotten by the 1st round anyway, they really didn't deserve to be in the playoffs with such a TERRIBLE home record..

And if you want my true opinion on who I think is going to win the NL.. well then I'll say it - Phillies. They are just unbeatable right now, I used to think the Padres were the ones who were gonna get to the World Series but I'm seriously doubting them.. My NL Pick: Phillies , My AL Pick: Yankees.. yes they will beat Boston.. I know those picks seem probably hilarious coming from a big Mets fan but I truly believe thats gonna be the World Series

Edited by nmigliore

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Im a firm believer in the "there's no free lunch" approach in life- - today it came to roost at my doorstep -- for every silent and vocal prayer I made during that game 6 in 1986 -- today - not 2000 - was the day where I settled my tab. Tomorrow I change gears to hockey -- but clearly tonight -the NY Mets need a cleansing starting with the manager. :koolaid:

Edited by El Diablo

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BEHOLD, the Beast from the East: Philadelphia Phillies :rofl::joker:

Now its going to be all Phillies, all day radio, TV, papers...Ugh!

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I don't watch the Mets that often, but I did tonight. Jose Reyes is clearly injured or fatigued. I don't think Rickey Henderson has anything to do with that.

Randolph should go, but the real person at fault is Minaya. It was a sad bit of irony for Mets fans when Matt Lindstrom struck out 3 in the 7th. Minaya never should've gotten Castillo, and Shawn Green should've never started in right.

It's called loafing. Something Reyes and butt buddy Milledge know well. Maybe if they didn't show up the Marlins they'd be playing another game tomorrow.

Castillo was a good pickup and played well. Green had a great September but he's not hitting many out anymore.

The Mets just look like they lost their confidence. All the errors and mental mistakes. They looked panicked.

I normally don't do this but I wrote a little piece on this collapse:

http://www.hittingback.com/?cat=6

There was the continued lack of hustle from a lifeless Jose Reyes who along with not running out balls or getting to balls in the field he normally would became undisciplined at the plate hitting just .214 with 15 strikeouts the final month. The 24 year-old shortstop who bats leadoff and is the sparkplug suddenly heard boos.

If you want to point to what was wrong with this team down the stretch, look no further. After a great first half in which he hit .307 with a .387 OBP, Reyes dropped to .255 and .321 OBP in the second half.

Most baffling was the sharp contrast in the one category he

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