Jerrydevil Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 What did you really want him to do? and at what cost? What do you seriously think the league would ask for what you think the Devils needed? Good post. There was a time when the Devils could afford to trade good young players like Steve Sullivan and Brendan Morrison. We don't have that kind of depth now. Plus there's the cap to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Don Koharski is delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Don Koharski is delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) Good post. There was a time when the Devils could afford to trade good young players like Steve Sullivan and Brendan Morrison. We don't have that kind of depth now. Plus there's the cap to worry about. Edited March 2, 2008 by Pepperkorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezer34 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) So see where I said they are believing their own bs? Thinking a Grant Marshall (aka EL Salvador) is going to win another Cup for us is delusional. Lou is not practicing what he preaches. At least Sutter seems to be learning as he goes. He quickly fixed his mistake of throwing Greene under the bus. Now was the time to try and win. It's not getting better for the Devils in the next few years, ie., Marty is not getting any younger and the East will only get stronger (see Washington and Pittsburgh). Edited March 3, 2008 by Beezer34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) No one thinks Lou does no wrong. The problems on this team come from weak drafts between 2001-2005, nothing more. There's not an easy fix to that problem. Lou hamstrung himself on possibly fixing it due to his moves before the 06 and 07 seasons, locking the team into place so that a trade would be damn near impossible - and now no one trades anymore. Regardless, he did not really have the pieces for a Thornton or Pronger because of the poor drafting. That's why poor drafting bites you in the ass twice. It's not enough that you don't get good players - you also have no real assets to trade for good players. Free agency almost never offers a bargain, and what bargains it does offer are usually in mid-range players. Edited March 3, 2008 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyFan42 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 No one thinks Lou does no wrong. You've been around here long enough to know that's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) You've been around here long enough to know that's not true. Edited March 3, 2008 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurBosskarelli Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 You've been around here long enough to know that's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 There seem to be many more people who think Lou can work magic when it comes to free agent signings and trades, that Lou should be able to do the impossible, than people who think Lou has never made a mis-step. Or maybe that's just lately from the people ranting about what the Devils needed to do. Arthur, I was always of the opinion the Devils should make no trade this trading deadline because the price wouldn't be a good fit for the organization. Now if the Devils had made a trade for Hossa and he cost way less than I thought then I would have cheered the move. Of course Hossa went for as much as I thought and I'm glad the Devils didn't put together a pacakage to match that. A person can't definitely know if they would like Lou to make a move or not make a move(and same for free agency) until they know what the price is/was. There are plenty of people that just make up some number in their head(like with Rafalski) and then complain Lou couldn't get it done when their own number was unreasonable to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) I can only fault Lou for putting a team on the ice that has to work too 100% potential to win a game. That's just not how to win championships. Every game this team plays is a nail biter...It takes its toll on the team to be that sharp 100% of the time night in and night out, it's not realistic. Come playooff time, I have no doubt, this team will end up like last years. Burn out early in the playoffs. This team needs some scoring help above all, just so they can win a game 3-1, instead of 2-1. In the end, it makes a big difference. Edited March 3, 2008 by HellOnICE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I can only fault Lou for putting a team on the ice that has to work too 100% potential to win a game. That's just not how to win championships. Every game this team plays is a nail biter...It takes its toll on the team to be that sharp 100% of the time night in and night out, it's not realistic. Come playooff time, I have no doubt, this team will end up like last years. Burn out early in the playoffs. This team needs some scoring help above all, just so they can win a game 3-1, instead of 2-1. In the end, it makes a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnderDogX Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I think that is a lot of the problem that people seem to be hitting on...it's not that Lou isn't trying it's just that he's not going about it in a logical way...we've consistently lost talent only to have it replaced with less talented "character" role playing guys that, as HOI, pointed out more than likely won't win a game unless they work to complete and full potential which is asking a lot of any team over the stretch of 82 games and then into the playoffs where realistically they'd have to overachieve and get some luck to really do anything... People are saying well Lou can't do anything when his hands are tied with low prospects, etc...but isn't that the difference between a good GM and a genius GM? This is after all the same Lou that craftily got us Stevens as a compensation player right?? It comes down to the fact that Lou's own quote is being put on him..."good isn't good where better is expected." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 People are saying well Lou can't do anything when his hands are tied with low prospects, etc...but isn't that the difference between a good GM and a genius GM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deek_1969 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I agree. Lou grabbed alot of third line players at forward in the offseason, but never replaced Gomez's production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 People are saying well Lou can't do anything when his hands are tied with low prospects, etc...but isn't that the difference between a good GM and a genius GM? This is after all the same Lou that craftily got us Stevens as a compensation player right?? It comes down to the fact that Lou's own quote is being put on him..."good isn't good where better is expected." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Devs Fan Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 To me it come down to poor drafts for the late 90's and early 00's - without bargaining chips you can't make trades and you don't develop players who make an impact on the big league club. I understand the argument about not having early picks because of our success but the minors have become a wasteland for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilMinder Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Have Conte and crew consistently missed better draft picks? The Devils have been picking from the bottom of the barrel the last decade or so. It might have been discussed before but I doubt any teams close to the Devils in the standings these years could have fared that much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Have Conte and crew consistently missed better draft picks? The Devils have been picking from the bottom of the barrel the last decade or so. It might have been discussed before but I doubt any teams close to the Devils in the standings these years could have fared that much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Sure the Devils have missed some better players in the draft but not a ton. You also need to add in the undrafted free agents the Devils signed like Greene, Oduya, and Clarkson. Those guys are points in the scouts favor even if not done through the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Have Conte and crew consistently missed better draft picks? The Devils have been picking from the bottom of the barrel the last decade or so. It might have been discussed before but I doubt any teams close to the Devils in the standings these years could have fared that much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarDew Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Have Conte and crew consistently missed better draft picks? The Devils have been picking from the bottom of the barrel the last decade or so. It might have been discussed before but I doubt any teams close to the Devils in the standings these years could have fared that much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) The Devils have done better in recent years with college players (Parise, Zajac, Martin) than with the kids they've sent to Albany and Lowell. I don't think that's coincidental. Albany and Lowell have been a freaking wasteland for about a decade. I realize there's a mindset that wins and losses aren't important when it comes to the minor league team but what do you really learn about hockey when you're 21-49-10 every year? Those teams have not prepared kids to play for a winning organization and Lou does have to take a hit for letting the minor league team rot. I believe it's part of the reason our high picks that have gone there like Ahonen and Bergfors just to name a couple, really haven't panned out. Whereas the college kids we've picked have been with winning programs (Minnesota, North Dakota) and learn more about hockey and what it is to be a Devil. Edited March 3, 2008 by Hasan4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) The Devils have done better in recent years with college players (Parise, Zajac, Martin) than with the kids they've sent to Albany and Lowell. I don't think that's coincidental. Albany and Lowell have been a freaking wasteland for about a decade. I realize there's a mindset that wins and losses aren't important when it comes to the minor league team but what do you really learn about hockey when you're 21-49-10 every year? Those teams have not prepared kids to play for a winning organization and Lou does have to take a hit for letting the minor league team rot. I believe it's part of the reason our high picks that have gone there like Ahonen and Bergfors just to name a couple, really haven't panned out. Whereas the college kids we've picked have been with winning programs (Minnesota, North Dakota) and learn more about hockey and what it is to be a Devil. Edited March 3, 2008 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas0nMacIsaac Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 We also failed on quite a few college picks. DeMarchi, Hale, Tallackson, Ryznar. We also missed on almost all our european picks. Pihlman, Laine, Suglobov, Ahonen, Pohanka, Uchevatov, Kadeykin, Chvatal, Khomutov, Mikhailishin and Bergfors (jury still out). Vasyunov, Tulupov, Zharkov and Sopanen seem to be on ok tracks so far but nothing impressive. I think the main reason for this is that while GM's have gotten better, so has scouting. Every team has scouts equivilent to NJ's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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