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Elias26

Leafs, Devs, Bruins trying to land Bouwmeester..

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If you are Florida and dealing Bouwmeester you MUST ask for Parise.

For this trade to make any sense for the Devils it would have to be done to NOT include Parise, but to suggest that they are not fair value, or a trade like this would be one of the "worst trades in Devil history", is just plain wrong.

Remember the Shannhan for Pronger trade? Shanny was a 27 year old all-star who had twice scored 50 goals. Pronger was a 21/22 year old who wasn't anywhere close to what Bouwmeester is today. Just wondering...how did that trade turn out?

Some of you said it, a youg d-man who could potentitally be a Norris trophy winner down the road is worth more than all but the very very best young forwards. No knock against Parise, but he is not in that category. To be honest, there are only a handful of guys who fall into that category...two of them play for Pitt and one in Washington.

Edited by bg.

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or overrate Parise. Which player would get more if both were made unrestricted free agents today? It would be JBO by 15% or so most likely. They're both great young players but there are more great young forwards in the league then great young defenseman.

The open market is subjective an based on individual team needs and their cap situation.

While I agree that a good young defensemen is more valuable than a forward, Parise's salary ($2.5) allows us to sign a Rolston and a Holik, while Bouwmeester will go to salary arbitration looking for around $5-6 million.

Parise (65 points, +13) at $2.5 is far more valuable for a teams success than Boumeester (37 points, -5) at $5 million.

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If you are Florida and dealing Bouwmeester you MUST ask for Parise.

You must ask for, but won't get Parise.

Since acquiring Boyton and Ballard, along with Van Ryn, Montador, Mezei and Skrastins, have alot of talented young D making Boumeester expendible.

Add this to the fact that Boumeester doesn't want to be there, I believe after a 1-year arbitration settlement makes him a UFA after this year. They will accept the highest bid regardless of who it involves.

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First things first, Parise is 3.125 not 2.5. Given that teams can bury money in the AHL, LTIR, god only knows where else, cap # is the only number that means anything to the majority of teams.

Second, how can you compare a stat like +/- for a Florida and NJ player? Aside from the fact that the stat is so dependent on the team you are on and NJ / FLA aren't in the same ballpark, you can poke plenty of holes in that stat (i.e., Malik is + 122 over the last 5 years...). The only more useless stat (IMO) is face off win %. 95% of them mean zlich, 5% mean everything. Want to know how a guy does on those...not a netural zone draw in the second period.

Third, isn't Bouwmeester 24 - if so, he's got some time before he's a UFA. I would say 2 yrs min.

Edited by bg.

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First things first, Parise is 3.125 not 2.5. Given that teams can bury money in the AHL, LTIR, god only knows where else, cap # is the only number that means anything to the majority of teams.

Second, how can you compare a stat like +/- for a Florida and NJ player? Aside from the fact that the stat is so dependent on the team you are on and NJ / FLA aren't in the same ballpark, you can poke plenty of holes in that stat (i.e., Malik is + 122 over the last 5 years...)

Third, isn't Bouwmeester 24 - if so, he's got some time before he's a UFA. I would say 2 yrs min.

According the NHLPA its $2.5.

I thought if a player went to arbitration (which he is) he would only get a 1-year settlement and would then be eligible for UFA status.

Malik is a very, very good defensemen who was also +58 in two years prior to him coming to NY from Vancouver. Everywhere he plays it seems his teams improve defensively and in the win column.

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According the NHLPA its $2.5.

I thought if a player went to arbitration (which he is) he would only get a 1-year settlement and would then be eligible for UFA status.

Malik is a very, very good defensemen who was also +58 in two years prior to him coming to NY from Vancouver. Everywhere he plays it seems his teams improve defensively and in the win column.

Malik is not very good, which is one reason why he's not signed. His NHL career might be over.

A player who goes to arbitration is not always eligible for UFA the year after. In fact, it can be as many as 4 years after the arbitration ruling.

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Malik is not very good, which is one reason why he's not signed. His NHL career might be over.

A player who goes to arbitration is not always eligible for UFA the year after. In fact, it can be as many as 4 years after the arbitration ruling.

I believe JBO will be an UFA 2 seasons from now. He has played 5 full NHL season so after his 7th he should be unrestricted.

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Malik is not very good, which is one reason why he's not signed. His NHL career might be over.

Maybe its just the luck of the draw, but every team that acquires Malik immediately improves, as soon as he leaves they fall apart.

He will be signed before September camp opens.

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This string has gotten absolutely ridiculous. It's absurd to think Florida would be looking for Parise and/or Martin, both under contract beyond this season, our top forward and our top D, for JBO, likely under contract for this season only. Florida will attempt to cut their losses, and they'll take the best deal (IF they can't sign JBO long term), but that deal won't be for a team's best player. Forget that notion.

Florida may want picks or young players, but come on people, Parise??? He's our only 30 goal scorer and will likely develop into an 80-point guy.

I can imaging them inquiring about Zajac (since he had an off-year), Gionta (since he's not terribly expensive for a potential first line guy at 4m and NJ could conceivably live without him), Oduya (if they think he will continue to develop), Corrente, Bergfors, 1st and 2nd round draft picks, etc.

Otherwise, they're not going to ask for Brodeur, Parise, Martin, so on and so forth, unless their GM is out of his gord and entirely out of touch with his own situation.

JBO can't walk on water, but he is a rare breed, and I really think it would be a great acquisition, and as I said yesterday, would gladly give up farm prospects, and probably even a 1st round pick to get him (since our picks are usually low first round anyway, and JBO is now a bona fide top-pair guy, and is only 24 or 25 yrs old).

But please, these Parise comments are completely off the mark. That would never, ever happen.

Talking about Parise like this reminds me of the 80's and the talk about Wayne Gretzky being untouchable. Please don't tell me anyone would consider Parise as good as Gretzky. There is no one is unmovable anymore.

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Here is my take on all this - Boumeester would be a major score for any team, because of not only what he is, but what he can become.

Lets take two d-men who got traded young...

If he goes the route of Pronger, a guy who can anchor your blueline for 10 years and play 25+ min's a night, etc, etc short of giving up a stud goalie (25 year old Brodeur), or mega-star F (22 year old Crosby) you are going to win. Parise can turn into a point-a-game guy, will probably wear a C on his uniform someday, but he will never be either of these things, so like I said, you win.

****I AM NOT SAYING THE DEVILS SHOULD OR WOULD GIVE UP PARISE, JUST THAT IT WOULDN'T BE A BAD DEAL****

If Boumeester goes the route of Jovo, a guy who is a top-two guy, can make all-star teams, but not a franchise or Norris type D man, you lose - IF Parise becomes everything you think he can become.

In the end (with a gun to my head) I would make that deal, because to get the Pronger type is too much to pass up.

That said, for this to make sense for this Devil team (where offense is not a position of strength) they have to do the deal w/o Parise - so that will take paying more than the value of Parise - and lame @$$ offers with Gionta in it aren't going to cut it.

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and lame @$$ offers with Gionta in it aren't going to cut it.

Now I've railed against most of the Gionta offers but I think Gionta can be part of the deal and still have it make sense. A Gionta, Bergfors, Corrente, plus pick(as just an example of a possible offer) can make sense for Florida. Gionta, being a former 48 goal scorer, really lets Florida act like they are trying to help out the now and the future even when it's really a deal to trim salary and acquire prospects and depth.

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Talking about Parise like this reminds me of the 80's and the talk about Wayne Gretzky being untouchable. Please don't tell me anyone would consider Parise as good as Gretzky. There is no one is unmovable anymore.

And I care what you're reminded of... why? When did I say he was Gretzky? I think I clearly said he will or could develop into an 80 pt guy, not a 200 pt guy. No, he's not immovable, only, I think it's highly unlikely, say 1 in 100, that he gets moved, knowing the Devils and Lou, and what they went into last season with compared to this season. NJ will gladly go into the season as is and doesn't need to make a move. But if they do have the chance to acquire Bouwmeester (chance meaning a good negotiation relationship, real possibility FLA would listen, etc. etc.), I simply don't think Jersey will give their top guy. Florida's asking price is conjecture, as are my own proposals, but I do know the tendencies of our team, and they won't trade Parise, but not because he's immovable or he's Gretzky, but because he's a New Jersey Devil and Lou Lams is the GM.

Additionally, as I've said repeatedly, if Florida can't sign him, they'll take the best offer out there. If Gio+Corrente, or 1st+Corrente etc are not the best offers, no, they won't take it. But if there are worse offers, they will. Gionta+1st is another option to up the ante, or heck, Gio+1st+2nd so on and so forth. Other teams may (or may not be) more reluctant if their team is in desperate need of re-building (like TOR) to give picks. NJ is not in rebuilding even if our farm is depleted.

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Now I've railed against most of the Gionta offers but I think Gionta can be part of the deal and still have it make sense. A Gionta, Bergfors, Corrente, plus pick(as just an example of a possible offer) can make sense for Florida. Gionta, being a former 48 goal scorer, really lets Florida act like they are trying to help out the now and the future even when it's really a deal to trim salary and acquire prospects and depth.

You put Gionta with Weiss and he is a 40 goal scorer again.

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You put Gionta with Weiss and he is a 40 goal scorer again.

Uh, what? Weiss is a good player but will never live up to his initial billing, and would not turn Gionta back into a 40 goal scorer.

It's hysterical that people claim a Parise for Bouwmeester swap would rank as the worst trade in Devils history. Is it at all possible for certain posters to look at a situation objectively, not clouded with New Jersey bias? Bouwmeester would be the Niedermayer/Stevens-caliber defenseman we've been lacking for several years now. I know everyone loves Parise, so do I, but adding Bouwmeester would do so much for this franchise. The only thing preventing me from dealing Parise for Bouwmeester is the contract situation of each.

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why is everyone looking for a top notch d-man, am i the only one that remembers we were shut out 10 or 11 times last year. i know you guys like this guy but i am not looking for our 9th d-man i am looking goal scorer

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Our 9th d-man? Bouwmeester would instantly become our best defenseman. He scored 15 goals last season and would definitely boost the offensive numbers of some of our forwards.

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why is everyone looking for a top notch d-man, am i the only one that remembers we were shut out 10 or 11 times last year. i know you guys like this guy but i am not looking for our 9th d-man i am looking goal scorer

Franchise defensemen> Franchise forward

For those of you saying we should trade Zajac and Gionta for JBo, would you trade Martin for Gionta and Zajac? I HIGHLY doubt it. Not only that, Bouwmeester is a level ahead of Martin. If we traded Parise straight up, our defense would look like this for 5+ years.

Bouwmeester

Martin

Oduya

Corrente

Rock solid

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Franchise defensemen> Franchise forward

For those of you saying we should trade Zajac and Gionta for JBo, would you trade Martin for Gionta and Zajac? I HIGHLY doubt it. Not only that, Bouwmeester is a level ahead of Martin. If we traded Parise straight up, our defense would look like this for 5+ years.

Bouwmeester

Martin

Oduya

Corrente

Rock solid

so you are going to trade a very good goal scorer and hope our d-man can save you every time, listen i say if you want boumeester you trade them a pick and one of the many d-man you have dont forget this is the same team that trade lungo and jokien and did not, imo, did not get any thing really good back

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so you are going to trade a very good goal scorer and hope our d-man can save you every time, listen i say if you want boumeester you trade them a pick and one of the many d-man you have dont forget this is the same team that trade lungo and jokien and did not, imo, did not get any thing really good back

The Luongo deal was a completely different regime (Mike Keenan), so not sure what that has to do with anything.

The Jokinen trade wasn't great, however Keith Ballard is one of the top young defenders in the game. A 2nd rounder is what it is, and Boynton is a solid bottom pairing guy who brings numerous intangibles to the table. If the pick was a 1st the deal would have been fine.

Uh yeah, we won't be getting Bouwmeester for one of our many (mediocre) defensemen and a pick.

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The Luongo deal was a completely different regime (Mike Keenan), so not sure what that has to do with anything.

The Jokinen trade wasn't great, however Keith Ballard is one of the top young defenders in the game. A 2nd rounder is what it is, and Boynton is a solid bottom pairing guy who brings numerous intangibles to the table. If the pick was a 1st the deal would have been fine.

Uh yeah, we won't be getting Bouwmeester for one of our many (mediocre) defensemen and a pick.

to be honest here i dont think the devils are going to get him any way i mean who was the last big or signing the devils had, and dont say rolston because he is back because he was a former devil

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I strongly believe we have to get him during this offseason. When he becomes a UFA he will probably get even better money than Campbell got. He will be highly overpaid, and we all know Lou doesnt overpay very often. So, if we do get him we have to sign him to a long term contract at 5-6 million a year. I'm a believer in Zajac,Gio,VV nd a 2nd (I'd be willing to part with a 1st though)

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to be honest here i dont think the devils are going to get him any way i mean who was the last big or signing the devils had, and dont say rolston because he is back because he was a former devil

Uh no, Rolston is back because Lou ponied up the cash. $20M over four years. Rolston would not have come back otherwise. That qualifies as a big name signing.

Zubrus was a mid-level signing. Mogilny, Malakhov, and McGillis were, at the time, fairly big.

Not sure what all this has to do with TRADING for Bouwmeester. Lou has made quite a few blockbusters in his tenure with New Jersey.

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so you are going to trade a very good goal scorer and hope our d-man can save you every time, listen i say if you want boumeester you trade them a pick and one of the many d-man you have dont forget this is the same team that trade lungo and jokien and did not, imo, did not get any thing really good back

You build your team from the ground up. Bouwmeester is a player that you can build around. Top 10 defensemen in the game and still growing.

You didn't answer my other question before. You honestly think the Devils could get Jay for 1ST and Vishnevski??? Would you trade Martin for that? Think about it. We are going to have to give to get, and its not going to be our garbage.

Edited by Devils Pride 26

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You build your team from the ground up. Bouwmeester is a player that you can build around. Top 10 defensemen in the game and still growing.

You didn't answer my other question before. You honestly think the Devils could get Jay for 1ST and Vishnevski??? Would you trade Martin for that? Think about it. We are going to have to give to get, and its not going to be our garbage.

No way Vishnevski they would not do that. If anybody its Martin. But Bouwmeester clearly replaces Martin, and is a better player than him. I still much rather have Martin AND Bouwmeester though

I much rather put a prospects/draft picks/forward deal. Throw in some prospects, a draft pick or two, Gionta and an extra d-man or two to make room. Gio is going into his last year of his contract and everyone knows hes gonna put a mere 20-25 goals up with us, which is probably 5 more than how much JBO will put up.

Edited by nmigliore

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You didn't answer my other question before. You honestly think the Devils could get Jay for 1ST and Vishnevski??? Would you trade Martin for that? Think about it. We are going to have to give to get, and its not going to be our garbage.

like i said before i dont think he is coming here no matter what we do

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