devilsrule33

The Rise and Fall of the Ottawa Senators

70 posts in this topic

My bad. I meant to put first round.

I posted an interview that was done with Kirk Muller, and he mentioned Johnston doing a greta job building the Devils up in the mid-to-late 80s. He doesn't get enough credit.

As for the Sens not winning the Cup...2003 was their year. Re-watching all the highlights that a poster here put up on YouTube really showed me how lucky the Devils were. Lalime let in bad goal after bad goal. He couldn't stop anything stick side. It's funny because Lalime has the lowest GAA in the playoffs of any goalie who has played 50 games in the playoffs. The Devils scored 7-8 goals that they had no business scoring in that series.

Beyond that, this series is why icing means you can't change lines and why delay of game is enforced when defensemen put the puck out of play from the defensive zone. The Devils 3rd pairing basically just iced the puck every time and prayed.

Ottawa was clearly a much better team besides the goaltender.

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seems relevant to drop this nugget in here

Ottawa coach Craig Hartsburg blasted his team Wednesday after a poor 4-1 loss to Atlanta Tuesday.

Hartsburg also broke up the famed Pizza line, Daniel Alfredsson, Dany Heatley and Jason Spezza because they just weren't scoring. It's unclear what the new lines will look like as Wednesday's session was more of a punishing skate than a true practice. The Senators play their next game Friday against New Jersey.

via rotoworld

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That's it then.. it was losing Johnston. See, that's a karma fecker right there.

THANK YOU devilsrule33!!

I respect the dialog going on about the various GMs etc., but that really is it. When you lose a guy who was doing a more than capable job - there's a whole messed up psychology left in the wake. Don't be too much like the guy, yet don't lose too much of the existing culture... on and on with the speculative back and forth. It's just a big mess when you prematurely lose someone like that. Devils keep people around I think with that kind of thing in mind.

Ottawa needs someone with a Pat Burns mind -- someone who can be his own man. Someone who can be a stand alone guy and succeed - Who learned a thing or two and knows it and can proceed with confidence. Sure he brings his own baggage with him -- which is worn to perfection - tight, crisp and entirely organized - dude is like hockey's Mary Poppins with her carpet bag, I kid you not!)

Edited by Darwindog

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Crap, why do they have to try something different against us?

Rest assured Sammy, they are desparate, and it will backfire and blow up in their face as the Devils slap 'em 4-0 :koolaid:

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I think that Ottawa's decline is really a product of it's own success. That roster that they had 5 years ago was unreal, and many of those players are now either superstars or key players on other teams. That roster was built through getting high picks in the draft as well as the incompetence of the Islanders. Now, in the post-lockout NHL, they haven't been able to keep all those players, and the window has closed for them. Unlike Detroit, they haven't gone and found new talent to replace the old. Detroit doesn't miss Sergei Fedorov, but Ottawa sure misses Martin Havlat.

I think their big issue was goaltending. That was the only part of that roster that wasn't solid. If they had a world class netminder in '03, things would have been really interesting...

edit: I really like this thread...we should do one's on other franchises (Islander's, Blues, Lightning, etc.)

I always thought Patrick Lalime sorta got the shaft for losing in 2003. There was a lot of hype around him when he debuted with Pittsburgh back in 96-97. He had a good rookie year, then sorta faded away before becoming the Ottawa backup. In 2002-03, he had 8 shutouts, a .911 SV% and a 2.16 GAA. Those are good numbers. I don't think he deserves the credit/blame for Ottawa losing that series, but then again, I don't really remember a lot of the goals he let in against NJ.

That said, I agree this is a great thread. Starting one like this on the Islanders would only make me feel embarrassed for them, though. All the talent they wasted... They could easily be the Detroit Red Wings right now.

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I always thought Patrick Lalime sorta got the shaft for losing in 2003. There was a lot of hype around him when he debuted with Pittsburgh back in 96-97. He had a good rookie year, then sorta faded away before becoming the Ottawa backup. In 2002-03, he had 8 shutouts, a .911 SV% and a 2.16 GAA. Those are good numbers. I don't think he deserves the credit/blame for Ottawa losing that series, but then again, I don't really remember a lot of the goals he let in against NJ.

That said, I agree this is a great thread. Starting one like this on the Islanders would only make me feel embarrassed for them, though. All the talent they wasted... They could easily be the Detroit Red Wings right now.

Lalime was good but he wasn't great and he would implode in the playoffs. Like Game 4 against us in 2003. Sens are controlling the first half of the game, and uh oh... here come the goals. Just watched the replays from that game, 3 of the 5 goals came on shots, and all 3 of them were pretty terrible.

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Rest assured Sammy, they are desparate, and it will backfire and blow up in their face as the Devils slap 'em 4-0 :koolaid:

I'm not sure either of our goalies could actually shut anyone out at this point in time.

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The Ottawa Senators were a model franchise just a few years ago. They had loads of young talent and were playing in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Since starting 15-2 last year, the Sens have recorded just 91 points 96 games. They barely made it into the playoffs last year, and when they did, they were quickly dismissed by the Penguins in 4 games. In that time where the Senators collected 91 points, the Leafs have recorded 96 points and the Panthers have recorded 102 points. There are only about 3-4 teams that have been worse than the Senators

In 2006, the Senators led the league with 314 goals, which translates into an amazing 3.80 goals per game. Just a few years later, the Sens are dead last in the league in goals, averaging a putrid 2.28 goals per game.

Can this team be fixed, or have they become the new version of the Tampa Bay Lightning.

I am of the opinion that the Sens can be fixed this year. Though I am in the minority I think.

The Sens have a very expensive top line. The main problem is that they can

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I'm not sure either of our goalies could actually shut anyone out at this point in time.

What if we put both Weekes and Clemmer in at the same time ^_^ either that or put Chico in :koolaid:

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One thing I'll say about this situation: it IS a long season, and teams have started slowly before and recovered. The Sens haven't been great by any stretch, but they're not so far out of it that there's no way they might bounce back. Didn't they start slowly a couple of seasons ago?

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One thing I'll say about this situation: it IS a long season, and teams have started slowly before and recovered. The Sens haven't been great by any stretch, but they're not so far out of it that there's no way they might bounce back. Didn't they start slowly a couple of seasons ago?

it is a long season, but it's not going to matter. The Senators are just not a good team - they'll probably play better, but without any secondary scoring they can't fight their way back into the playoff picture.

they did start slow in 2006-07 i think, but this is different - then they had Redden, Meszaros, etc.

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One thing I'll say about this situation: it IS a long season, and teams have started slowly before and recovered. The Sens haven't been great by any stretch, but they're not so far out of it that there's no way they might bounce back. Didn't they start slowly a couple of seasons ago?

A good thing to keep in mind. The Sens have been bad but they are a better team than they have shown. They are not top four in the conference or anything, but I can see them making a few tweaks and finding a way into the playoffs.

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but there are some jems in there by Melnyk (Sens owner and possible LSD enthusiast)

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Garri...789866-sun.html

"I can tell you right now, mar k this down: Come March they are going to talk about the miracle turnaround of the Ottawa Senators"

Edited by devils102

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One thing I'll say about this situation: it IS a long season, and teams have started slowly before and recovered. The Sens haven't been great by any stretch, but they're not so far out of it that there's no way they might bounce back. Didn't they start slowly a couple of seasons ago?

They already lost three times this season to the ISLANDERS. There won't be any turnaround unless they can seriously change things there.

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They already lost three times this season to the ISLANDERS. There won't be any turnaround unless they can seriously change things there.

I'm not saying they haven't been bad. They have. And I'm not saying that they're a lock to turn it around. I am saying that I've seen enough teams get off to what seem like insurmountably bad starts turn things around...the 2005-06 Devils ring any bells? I've also seen it go the other way too...teams that look unbeatable during the first two months of the season hit the skids later on. That's why I don't get too high or too low anymore early in the NHL season.

I'm curious to see what happens on Friday. If the Senators don't at least come out playing hard after losing to Atlanta, then I don't what it will take to get them going. But until I see them well out of the standings late in the season I can't count them out just yet.

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I'm not saying they haven't been bad. They have. And I'm not saying that they're a lock to turn it around. I am saying that I've seen enough teams get off to what seem like insurmountably bad starts turn things around...the 2005-06 Devils ring any bells? I've also seen it go the other way too...teams that look unbeatable during the first two months of the season hit the skids later on. That's why I don't get too high or too low anymore early in the NHL season.

I'm curious to see what happens on Friday. If the Senators don't at least come out playing hard after losing to Atlanta, then I don't what it will take to get them going. But until I see them well out of the standings late in the season I can't count them out just yet.

Well the "big 3" will all be on different lines. Hartsburg is really trying to change Spezza's game and make him a lot tougher. What he is doing to get this message across is putting him on a line with Neil and Ruutu. I guess if they are going to get some chances, it probably won't be pretty.

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OK the Sens have had the likes of Spezza, Heatley, Alfredsson, Havlat, Hossa, Yashin, and Fisher just to name a few. There problem has and always will be goaltending. Gerber, Auld, Lalime, and Ron Tugnutt :giggle:

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I'm not saying they haven't been bad. They have. And I'm not saying that they're a lock to turn it around. I am saying that I've seen enough teams get off to what seem like insurmountably bad starts turn things around...the 2005-06 Devils ring any bells? I've also seen it go the other way too...teams that look unbeatable during the first two months of the season hit the skids later on. That's why I don't get too high or too low anymore early in the NHL season.

I'm curious to see what happens on Friday. If the Senators don't at least come out playing hard after losing to Atlanta, then I don't what it will take to get them going. But until I see them well out of the standings late in the season I can't count them out just yet.

Yeah - and those Devils did have two big changes in midseason...namely Patrik Elias and Lou Lamoriello. Ottawa doesn't have an Elias walking through the door to play at an MVP pace and Bryan Murray already tried to be Lou last year without any success. Plus it's not just about this year, it's also the last 50-60 games of last year combined with this year. We all thought last year it was mental with them but it's looking more and more as if this is who they are now.

Edited by Hasan4978

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Yeah - and those Devils did have two big changes in midseason...namely Patrik Elias and Lou Lamoriello. Ottawa doesn't have an Elias walking through the door to play at an MVP pace and Bryan Murray already tried to be Lou last year without any success. Plus it's not just about this year, it's also the last 50-60 games of last year combined with this year. We all thought last year it was mental with them but it's looking more and more as if this is who they are now.

True this calander year the Sens have been terrible

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Yeah - and those Devils did have two big changes in midseason...namely Patrik Elias and Lou Lamoriello. Ottawa doesn't have an Elias walking through the door to play at an MVP pace and Bryan Murray already tried to be Lou last year without any success. Plus it's not just about this year, it's also the last 50-60 games of last year combined with this year. We all thought last year it was mental with them but it's looking more and more as if this is who they are now.

None of that is lost on me. And I agree, it's no longer a limited sample...they're up to roughly a full season (even more than that) of subpar play. But I have this weird feeling that we haven't heard the last of them. I actually don't have a great feeling about tonight's game, although I think the Devils going to beat the Flyers on Sunday and Boston on Tuesday.

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They are one of the few teams in the league that I can truly say that I respect. For a team that built themselves the ground up the right way, it sucks to see them struggling so badly. But I do agree that their lack of secondary scoring and offensive from the blueline is what's taking its toll on them. Ottawa does have the talent to give the team secondary scoring (Fisher, Vermette, Kelly), but for some odd reason they just can't seem to get the ball rolling (Kind of like Carolina after '06). IMO it was right on their part to let Redden and Meszaros walk since both of them wanted waaaaaaay more than what they actually were worth. However, they're going to need to start scouting or shopping around for puck-moving D-men if they want to get their PP going again.

With the way that organization is ran, I wouldn't be surprised if they will probably take a year or two off to rebuild and actually become a contender once again. They'll need to do it pretty soon since Alfredsson's tenure with the team could be drawing to a close in four years.

Edited by CaptainLangs

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None of that is lost on me. And I agree, it's no longer a limited sample...they're up to roughly a full season (even more than that) of subpar play. But I have this weird feeling that we haven't heard the last of them. I actually don't have a great feeling about tonight's game, although I think the Devils going to beat the Flyers on Sunday and Boston on Tuesday.

They gave a stat in an OTT game recently where it was some large sample size, like the last 60-70 games or something where OTT is averaging less than a point per contest. I wouldn't have guessed that would happen.

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They gave a stat in an OTT game recently where it was some large sample size, like the last 60-70 games or something where OTT is averaging less than a point per contest. I wouldn't have guessed that would happen.

First paragraph of my post...91 points in 96 games. How is that for sample size.

You know this thread is the ultimate jinx for the Devils...

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First paragraph of my post...91 points in 96 games. How is that for sample size.

You know this thread is the ultimate jinx for the Devils...

Oops, my bad.

I said I'm surprised their record is that poor. None of the jinx is on me. :whistling:

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