Triumph

Bobby Holik

41 posts in this topic

Madden's gotten to play with a bunch of different people this season and his line has consistently been the worst on the ice most nights. Why should the Devils bother building around a 3rd or 4th line center who is an UFA at the end of the season? Madden's PK abilities have been suspect so far this year as well. Do we have to let Madden play with Elias so that we can make Madden's numbers go up or should the team relegate Madden to a smaller role, which is what they've been doing, to allow the effective players to play more often?

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We do have an embarrassment of riches in "old guys who can't score" on this team, but I think Holik is the probably the 4th biggest offender. Rupp is useless. Pandolfo is useless. Clarkson is really useless (I've never hated a Devil on this team quite the way I despise David Clarkson, who I call our "poor man's Matthew Barnaby.").

uh, huh? clarkson has 8 goals and 8 assists halfway through the season. that's a solid contributor. he had some bad games early on in the year but he has gotten much better as the year has gone on.

mike rupp has been better than holik at just about every facet of the game this season.

This team is scary bad on the offensive depth chart once you reach #15's name. He could probably make my list this year, too.

Thankfully, Parise, Elias and now Zajac are having years to remember. And that guy--what's his name--is coming back into the net soon.

langenbrunner's got 30 points, i mean c'mon. he's probably only going to score 15 goals but he has been a pretty decent contributor too.

Edited by Triumph

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I'll give you Clarkson -- the guy just irritates me. Can't explain it. But really for the PP time he gets, he SHOULD have more points.

However Langenbrunner -- I'm sorry, but any forward in the position that he's in should get the number of assists that this man does. That's his job. And because he's El Capitan, I want to see more leadership out of the guy on the ice and off. He doesn't provide it.

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Madden's gotten to play with a bunch of different people this season and his line has consistently been the worst on the ice most nights. Why should the Devils bother building around a 3rd or 4th line center who is an UFA at the end of the season? Madden's PK abilities have been suspect so far this year as well. Do we have to let Madden play with Elias so that we can make Madden's numbers go up or should the team relegate Madden to a smaller role, which is what they've been doing, to allow the effective players to play more often?

Dont get yer panties in a bunch! Madden needs a linemate he can mentor. He's looking to find his new role - you're not going to find that line hopping. Yes he should be on a 3rd or 4th line - no arguing there - but he needs someone to mentor. Maybe Clarkson... I'm not sure because I don't really see how Clarkson listens.

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Holik is probably great in the locker room and on the ice as a leader, but there is no doubt his words would carry more weight if he was putting the puck in the net more then he is.

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I'll give you Clarkson -- the guy just irritates me. Can't explain it. But really for the PP time he gets, he SHOULD have more points.

that whole 2nd power play is a mess. you've got brian gionta out by the top of the circles where he doesn't belong and some combination of oduya, martin, and langenbrunner on the points. i can see why clarkson would irritate you - to me he seems like a good guy but he is outright stupid.

However Langenbrunner -- I'm sorry, but any forward in the position that he's in should get the number of assists that this man does. That's his job. And because he's El Capitan, I want to see more leadership out of the guy on the ice and off. He doesn't provide it.

how do you know what leadership he provides off the ice?

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The evidence is all there and has been for some time. I obviously have no way of knowing but Scott Stevens this guy is not and while this is not the 03 Devils, there are plenty of things that we do in the Langenbrunner era that we never did in the Stevens era. Stevens led by example. With Langenbrunner it seems more "do as I say, not as I do."

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This is the kind of stuff that makes me glad we signed him.

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This is the kind of stuff that makes me glad we signed him.

"Luckily it was Mike Mottau shooting the puck, and he couldnt hurt a fly with that shot" :rofl:

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Alot of the stuff Holik does will not show up on the scoresheet. He created a tempo thats Devils usually continue throughout the game. He wins key faceoffs and he is one of the largest physical presences up the middle in the NHL. Yes he takes penalties but in a 7 game series he will be the difference come game 5, 6 and 7. He knows how to win also, he knows what it takes to win. He just came back from an injury also, give him a few more games to round back into shape.

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Alot of the stuff Holik does will not show up on the scoresheet. He created a tempo thats Devils usually continue throughout the game. He wins key faceoffs and he is one of the largest physical presences up the middle in the NHL. Yes he takes penalties but in a 7 game series he will be the difference come game 5, 6 and 7. He knows how to win also, he knows what it takes to win. He just came back from an injury also, give him a few more games to round back into shape.

Yeah I can't wait to see what he can do for us in the playoffs this season.

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Holik's 'snarl' is going to cost this team a win at least by the end of the year, so I hope he makes up for it in other ways. The only thing Holik has got going for him is that he's an even in +/-.

The only thing right now that makes Holik more valuable than Pandolfo is that Holik is a center and Pandolfo is a winger. Otherwise they have both been similarly unspectacular and a team with a decent minor league system could've replaced either one. Yes, Pandolfo is a solid penalty killer, and yes Holik brings 'snarl' and faceoff-winning ability, but both of these qualities are highly overvalued.

Common Tri, you know the veterans like Madden, Pandolfo and Holik will show up in the clutch. Like I said in my last post they know how to win, thats something that can not be taught. Come playoffs we are going to have 4 extremely strong lines rolling night in and night out. No team in the East can match us in that category. We are going to make the finals with this team, I haven't had this feeling about a team since 01. The only weak spot is a PP quarterback to create plays. I still think Elias would be our best bet at this point.

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Zajac and Parise have both given Langs a ton of credit in keeping them calm and steady when they get emotional, and he seems to be leading fairly well amongst the young guys.

Older guys...I don't know. We have so much experience in the room now, how much is Langs responsible for the team and how much = these guys being accountable for themselves?

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Common Tri, you know the veterans like Madden, Pandolfo and Holik will show up in the clutch. Like I said in my last post they know how to win, thats something that can not be taught. Come playoffs we are going to have 4 extremely strong lines rolling night in and night out. No team in the East can match us in that category. We are going to make the finals with this team, I haven't had this feeling about a team since 01. The only weak spot is a PP quarterback to create plays. I still think Elias would be our best bet at this point.

look, this is nonsense - i mean i know they are leaders, and they 'know how to win', but there is going to be a point in these guys careers when veterans or not they are simply not going to be NHL players, and that seems like it is sooner rather than later.

on paper we have 4 strong lines. on the ice we have bobby holik who looks like his career is about over, and jay pandolfo and john madden who've aged 3 years over the summer. and i don't have too much confidence that these guys simply have a switch to turn on. my problem with holik is that he hasn't been close to the 'force' we were promised in the off-season. he just looks lost these last few games and his line is accomplishing nothing.

Edited by Triumph

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Alot of the stuff Holik does will not show up on the scoresheet. He created a tempo thats Devils usually continue throughout the game. He wins key faceoffs and he is one of the largest physical presences up the middle in the NHL. Yes he takes penalties but in a 7 game series he will be the difference come game 5, 6 and 7. He knows how to win also, he knows what it takes to win. He just came back from an injury also, give him a few more games to round back into shape.

Great post! Does everything above that you mentioned including give the rest of the team a chance to rest when Cangelosi needs somebody to interview between periods.

He's a bargain! He could have signed elsewhere for more $ but I think Lou respects the fact that he knows the game, and although he is not the best skater on the ice (shot etc..) he will be apart of the Devs organization for years to come in some capacity off the ice.

Faceoffs are key and he's one of the best.

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look, this is nonsense - i mean i know they are leaders, and they 'know how to win', but there is going to be a point in these guys careers when veterans or not they are simply not going to be NHL players, and that seems like it is sooner rather than later.

on paper we have 4 strong lines. on the ice we have bobby holik who looks like his career is about over, and jay pandolfo and john madden who've aged 3 years over the summer. and i don't have too much confidence that these guys simply have a switch to turn on. my problem with holik is that he hasn't been close to the 'force' we were promised in the off-season. he just looks lost these last few games and his line is accomplishing nothing.

Madden and Pandolfo haven't aged much at all. They are both skating the way they have in the past just have had some tough breaks. They aren't playing as much as in past years and that is clearly an adjustment for these guys. In the end they will have more intensity and more energy come playoffs. Holik hasn't been as bad as you make him out to be other then poor penalties. He has been great in the defensive zone and is a force down low. I only expected 30 points this season on the 4th line with Holik. He earns his paycheck in defensive zone faceoffs, cycling down low, and softening up the defensmen.

Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac

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