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RowdyFan42

US Military: "Yeah, we still hate gays"

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You mean to tell me that Colin Powell figured that gays would vote Republican if he wrote DADT?

I don't know. I DO know that there was no need to write DADT solely to protect homosexuals currently serving at the time. Thier lives were not in danger. So being as the reasoning for the bill was absent I can only conclude it was written and passed for political reasons.

It wouldn't be the first time in US history something was passed purely for political manuevering.

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When you generalize and say "The US Military hates gays" you are being all inclusive and that includes me as well since I am in the US Military. So its YOU that needs the class in reading comprehension not me. Read what you type before you post it.

That's silly. With an expression like the one Rowdy used I think it's clear that he is talking more about the guys at the top and the policy makers, unless thats you.

He certainly isn't taking a dig at everyone in the military, that wouldn't even make sense considering his shock and disappointment is about someone in the military. Do you think rowdy was saying Amy Brian hates gays too?

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You mean to tell me that Colin Powell figured that gays would vote Republican if he wrote DADT?

Ok Sean Penn.

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Wasn't there a scene in FUll Metal JAcket where they beat up a gay?

Preety interesting. Here we have an active member of the military, AND I SALUTE AND THANK YOU SIR, who tells a bit of the history of DADT and takes exception to being branded something he is not.

And Don and Rowdy take their usual petty step of calling him a homophobe after they lose their argument.

I believe it was Private Pyle who got the blanket party in FMJ but it wasn't because he was gay, it was because he was a fvck up if I remember correctly. Its been awhile since I've seen it so I can't be 100% sure.

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That's silly. With an expression like the one Rowdy used I think it's clear that he is talking more about the guys at the top and the policy makers, unless thats you.

He certainly isn't taking a dig at everyone in the military, that wouldn't even make sense considering his shock and disappointment is about someone in the military. Do you think rowdy was saying Amy Brian hates gays too?

If he was talking about the top brass then he should say the top brass. I don't know him and I have no clue what his beliefs are. I have no reason to believe he doesn't believe the entire non-gay US Military is homophobic

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If he was talking about the top brass then he should say the top brass. I don't know him and I have no clue what his beliefs are. I have no reason to believe he doesn't believe the entire non-gay US Military is homophobic

Rowdy hates Affirmative Action. But if someone hates Islamo Fascists, they hate all Muslims in his world.

He's part of the group that buries their heads in the sand, sings Kumbaya, and pretends their is nothing wrong in the world except for racist white guys.

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And Don and Rowdy take their usual petty step of calling him a homophobe after they lose their argument.

Proof, please? Or do we need to expand the reading comprehension class?

Don didn't call anybody anything and I, as I've already pointed out, specifically said I wasn't directing my argument at him personally.

If he was talking about the top brass then he should say the top brass. I don't know him and I have no clue what his beliefs are. I have no reason to believe he doesn't believe the entire non-gay US Military is homophobic

I think I've been clear. If you're reading something and coming away with an understanding which is the exact opposite of what's been written, that's your problem, not mine.

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Proof, please? Or do we need to expand the reading comprehension class?

Don didn't call anybody anything and I, as I've already pointed out, specifically said I wasn't directing my argument at him personally.

Post #20

"And here I was thinking just the top brass were homophobes when it turns out that there's enough of them among the rank and file to make such a policy necessary. You're right, Don, it is a damn shame. "

There you go.

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Post #20

"And here I was thinking just the top brass were homophobes when it turns out that there's enough of them among the rank and file to make such a policy necessary. You're right, Don, it is a damn shame. "

There you go.

That was a direct response to Don's comment about homophobic fratricide. It's quite clear to everyone else that no one is calling the servicemember present in this thread a homophobe.

Like I already said, if you can't (or won't) understand what's being said, that's your problem, not mine. I'm not going to sit here all day defending what I or anyone else wrote against Mis-Leeds' spinning tactics.

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Like I already said, if you can't (or won't) understand what's being said, that's your problem, not mine. I'm not going to sit here all day defending what I or anyone else wrote against Mis-Leeds' spinning tactics.

Haha........Rowdy steals from Manta of all people.

Yet you accuse me of being a racist at least 50 times by "spinning" what I've written to squeeze into your narrow mind.

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Ok ok hold on, lets try and be fair and objective about this and not resort to name calling, we are all becoming guilty of this right now. The facts are this...

Does the Military have a policy about gays serving in the military and is that policy enforced: Yes

Is there substantial evidence that being gay does not dull, or otherwise degrade your ability to perform the basic tasks required of one who serves (IE firing a weapon, talking on a radio, gathering intel etc)?: Yes

Are there individuals who are homosexual serving in the military who are exemplary soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen with positive supervisor feedback? Yes

Are there still individuals in the US Military who have a problem serving with a homosexual for no reason other then the social stereotypes associated with having same sex friends who are same sex oriented? Yes

We need to stop focusing on what the policy is, stop pointing fingers, and generalizing about who's fault it is and push forward with the questions I just answered. I think it can be agreed upon by everyone here that a change in policy is needed. That change will come at the cost of backlash from those in the US Armed Services who are against homosexuality. In the US Military it is defined in regulations that your religious beliefs, or personal beliefs not of a religious nature WILL NOT be recognized in relation to mission accomplishment. So in this situation that basically means that if the individual service member has a problem because of thier beliefs serving alongside a homosexual they need to either deal with it, or leave the service.

These are the same issues we had in the military when we first integrated blacks and whites in the same units, men and women in the same units, and now it will occur with openly homosexual, and heterosexual integrated units. The military has spent a lot of money to educate its personnel on the prevention of, and consequences of commiting certain illegal acts like drug use, sexual abuse, rape... etc and it would be no different to take some of that money to teach acceptance of openly homosexual people serving in the same unit you do citing examples of other military's.

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...lets try and be fair and objective about this and not resort to name calling...

You must be new to this forum.

BTW - Great post.

Edited by Don

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Something that needs to be understood about the military is that their is an emphasis on getting the job done without having distractions. This is one of the reasons the infantry doesn't have women in it. You can be gay and in the military, all they ask is that you follow their policy and "don't ask or tell" about being gay. Sounds pretty fair to me and pretty much anyone else in the military.

Its funny how this predominantly an issue for those who are anti-war or people who would never consider joining the military.

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Its funny how this predominantly an issue for those who are anti-war or people who would never consider joining the military.

I think part of that may be because liberals are more anti-war and are also generally more tolerant of gays. I'm not sure how you deduce that the people making it an issue wouldn't join the military.

Edited by devilsfan26

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Something that needs to be understood about the military is that their is an emphasis on getting the job done without having distractions. This is one of the reasons the infantry doesn't have women in it. You can be gay and in the military, all they ask is that you follow their policy and "don't ask or tell" about being gay. Sounds pretty fair to me and pretty much anyone else in the military.

Its funny how this predominantly an issue for those who are anti-war or people who would never consider joining the military.

Please enlighten us as to how someone's sexual orientation turns out to be a distraction.

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Are you for it?

For what? Having gays in the military? Yea, anyone who wants to serve their country should be able to.

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We finally agree on something. :cheers:

Please expand on this.

No. Would there be an issue if I was?

Gay pride marches. Did you hear about the firemen (straight guys) who were forced to march in a gay pride parade recently in San Diego ? They sued and won, not for the amount they were looking for (which was absurd) but they did get compensation.

It's even being taught in schools as an "alternative lifestyle"

That's what I mean by pushing that lifestyle down our throats. It is a genetic dead-end, a flaw or affliction if you will. Like being albino or having MS, an illness (hormone imbalance) It's not the fault of the gay person, nobody chooses to be gay, they are born like it, like being born mute, or deaf.

Absolutely not, the reason I asked was because that most of the people who are fighting for "gay rights" are gay. There are some, but not many, straight people who fight for "gay rights" as strongly as gay people do.

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Gay pride marches. Did you hear about the firemen (straight guys) who were forced to march in a gay pride parade recently in San Diego ?

No, I hadn't.

That's what I mean by pushing that lifestyle down our throats. It is a genetic dead-end, a flaw or affliction if you will. Like being albino or having MS, an illness (hormone imbalance) It's not the fault of the gay person, nobody chooses to be gay, they are born like it, like being born mute, or deaf.

Oooooo-kayyyyyyyy. *backs away slowly* :blink:

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Just a question.... if there were a lot of racists in the army, would you back a policy to keep blacks from serving?

Though I do have a question. Other NATO nations allow gay men and women to serve in their military. In particular Canadian soldiers, both gay and straight, are fighting and dying in Afghanistan. But forget "don't ask - don't tell" - we have their weddings on our bases!! But we certainly are not the only ones - Israel, Australia, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, UK.... they all allow gays and lesbians to serve openly. What is it that makes it feasible in these countries and completely unworkable in the United States?

If it works then I'm fine with it. I don't really consider you a reliable source on the intimate workings of the military but assuming you are, and it has worked in other militaries then whatever it will probably work in the U.S. It just bothers me when people apply their everyday moral code and framework to military situations, where things are much messier and priorities are very different than they are in their everyday life.

Because in the military if everyone isn't on the same page, people die. There's no time to get up in arms about ensuring Political Correctness.

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If it works then I'm fine with it. I don't really consider you a reliable source on the intimate workings of the military but assuming you are, and it has worked in other militaries then whatever it will probably work in the U.S. It just bothers me when people apply their everyday moral code and framework to military situations, where things are much messier and priorities are very different than they are in their everyday life.

Because in the military if everyone isn't on the same page, people die. There's no time to get up in arms about ensuring Political Correctness.

True enough, but its not just about political correctness, its about equality and human rights which the military should be fighting to protect not violating themselves.

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I think part of that may be because liberals are more anti-war and are also generally more tolerant of gays.

Horrible traits to have.

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Please enlighten us as to how someone's sexual orientation turns out to be a distraction.

Anyone who has ever served in the military in an mos that has women involved will tell you it is a distraction. Guys constantly think of sex, having women around doesn't make that easier, the same would be said with gays in a unit. Any male who has served in the military would tell you that the most efficient units they have been in were all males, it's nothing against females, I have seen many females perform very well but a female is always a distraction in a unit, especially an attractive one.

For what? Having gays in the military? Yea, anyone who wants to serve their country should be able to.

I agree, just follow the militaries policy of dont ask dont tell and a gay can serve.

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