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nyrsuck26

2nd group mulling NHL in Hamilton, Ont.

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Put them both in Hamilton. They will draw more fans than they currently are.

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Bettman is hell bent on keeping the over-expanded NHL failing teams in bad hockey markets.

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Bettman is hell bent on keeping the over-expanded NHL failing teams in bad hockey markets.

Bettman isn't hell bent on anything, if the owners didn't agree with him, this wouldn't be happening. There's only so many middling Canadian markets you can put teams in or the mid-late 90's will repeat itself. Unless you want these teams on border shuttles depending on how exchange is working out. In a pro USD exchange environment, the Coyotes crappy gate looks like $700-800K Canadian a night.

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LOL, I happen to know (too much of a word probably) a guy who roots for two teams: the Thrashers and (now that he's moved to Arizona) the Coyotes. Gotta feel bad for him. :P

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I've been to quite a few games in Glendale and - after the Devils - the Coyotes are my favorite team. However, hockey in the desert at 85 degrees in December just doesn't feel quite right. No wonder not too many people care about hockey down there. The same can be said for a place like Tampa Bay. On the other hand, many years ago I've been to Quebec to watch the Nordiques play Buffalo, Boston and Montreal. Boy, that was a hockey town. Everybody was talking hockey, it was cold and hockey just seemed like a natural there. To me, the NHL has never been the same after Quebec and Winnipeg moved and the NHL expanded into markets, that are just not right for hockey. Yes, I would be sad if the Coyotes left, but on the other hand, this would probably be the right decision for hockey.

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Bettman isn't hell bent on anything, if the owners didn't agree with him, this wouldn't be happening. There's only so many middling Canadian markets you can put teams in or the mid-late 90's will repeat itself. Unless you want these teams on border shuttles depending on how exchange is working out. In a pro USD exchange environment, the Coyotes crappy gate looks like $700-800K Canadian a night.

seriously. i think hamilton can support a team, but it's the only canadian market i would put an nhl team in that doesn't already have one. i was reading on another board where people thought kitchener-waterloo could get a team - i mean, are these people nuts?

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seriously. i think hamilton can support a team, but it's the only canadian market i would put an nhl team in that doesn't already have one. i was reading on another board where people thought kitchener-waterloo could get a team - i mean, are these people nuts?

I feel the same way Tri. It seems Hamilton is the only place I'd put a team too. The market is big enough, seemingly to sustain a team. I won't worrya bout the Leafs, they've had like 90 year head start...I'd worry a little bit about Buffalo...but if that many people are taken away from Buffalo then OY. But, if NJ/NYR/PHI can work...then I don't see why a stronger market for hockey wouldn't.

If it's about NHL US tv ratings, which it partly is...I can't see that many people aring in Phoenix anyway.

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Bettman is hell bent on keeping the over-expanded NHL failing teams in bad hockey markets.

+1

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seriously. i think hamilton can support a team, but it's the only canadian market i would put an nhl team in that doesn't already have one. i was reading on another board where people thought kitchener-waterloo could get a team - i mean, are these people nuts?

Why wouldn't Winnipeg or Quebec City be able to support a team? There are cities with less population (and less of a percentage of hockey fans) that do have an NHL team.

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Why wouldn't Winnipeg or Quebec City be able to support a team? There are cities with less population (and less of a percentage of hockey fans) that do have an NHL team.

Especially now with a cap in place they could support a team. All contracts are in US $. Back when the US dollar was so much stonger than the CA dollar coupled with no cap it was much tougher for Canadian teams.

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Why wouldn't Winnipeg or Quebec City be able to support a team? There are cities with less population (and less of a percentage of hockey fans) that do have an NHL team.

no there aren't. and even if there are, the canadian exchange rate is at .8. this means that a canadian team has to pay 10 dollars where american teams have to pay 8, that's a large impediment. but yeah please tell me what markets are smaller than quebec or winnipeg, because there aren't any.

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Especially now with a cap in place they could support a team. All contracts are in US $. Back when the US dollar was so much stonger than the CA dollar coupled with no cap it was much tougher for Canadian teams.

huh? as far as i know, the canadian clubs do not get matching dollars from the league; they used to. a contract would be signed for $2 million cdn, but it would be paid out as $2 million US, with the league making up the difference. that's not the case anymore, as far as i can tell.

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no there aren't. and even if there are, the canadian exchange rate is at .8. this means that a canadian team has to pay 10 dollars where american teams have to pay 8, that's a large impediment. but yeah please tell me what markets are smaller than quebec or winnipeg, because there aren't any.

Even cities like Raleigh and Columbus are bigger than WPG. Sunrise, FL is small...but if you count the greater Ft. Lauderdale area, it's quite huge.

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no there aren't. and even if there are, the canadian exchange rate is at .8. this means that a canadian team has to pay 10 dollars where american teams have to pay 8, that's a large impediment. but yeah please tell me what markets are smaller than quebec or winnipeg, because there aren't any.

You'll have to forgive me because according to statshockey.net you're right by the population of the metroplitan areas. I was looking at another site that only gave the population of the actual cities.

However, I still hold my arguement that the percentage of hockey fans in Winnipeg, Quebec, etc. is greater than that of Florida (just the Panthers not the whole state), Atlanta, Phoenix, Carolina, Nashville, etc. for example.

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the thing about winnipeg is that it doesn't have any suburbs. it's a city of 633,451, with its metropolitan area having 694,668 people. in the US, cities of 600,000 have metro areas well over a million people.

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You'll have to forgive me because according to statshockey.net you're right by the population of the metroplitan areas. I was looking at another site that only gave the population of the actual cities.

However, I still hold my arguement that the percentage of hockey fans in Winnipeg, Quebec, etc. is greater than that of Florida (just the Panthers not the whole state), Atlanta, Phoenix, Carolina, Nashville, etc. for example.

Population only tells part of the story too. Disposable income is an important item as well. I don't have any numbers but it's another thing to factor in when you're looking at locations.

Another thing to look at is cannabilization. How much do these areas already spend on hockey vs how much more can they vs how much do other teams lose by having a team in that location.

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Mayor says Hamilton only working with Balsillie

"We've had discussions with others, we're going to leave it at that, but the primary person we're dealing with right now and that we hope to put together an arrangement with for Copps Coliseum is Mr. Balsillie," said [Mayor] Eisenberger

Something tell's me that those discussions have gone farther than he's letting on...

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Wyshynski mentioned in one of his blog posts that wind up in the News Feed section, and I have to agree with him: Bettman's not against a second team in the Toronto area, he's against moving a team there, when an alternative would have the NHL collecting massive expansion fees instead.

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And there's enough players out there to fill 31 or 32 NHL teams?

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And there's enough players out there to fill 31 or 32 NHL teams?

Players? Yes. Quality? Debatable. I mean, we live in a world where a guy like David Hale can survive in a 30 team league, how much farther can we really fall?

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Players? Yes. Quality? Debatable. I mean, we live in a world where a guy like David Hale can survive in a 30 team league, how much farther can we really fall?

Yea its debatable. I think the NHL is pretty evenly competitive right now, and two more teams might be able to compete, but not many more beyond that. I mean, an #8 seed knocked off a #1 seed (referring to the Ducks) this year and is giving the mighty Red Wings a run for there money. But then again, there were three teams with less than 70 points this year... I'm not sure whether expansion would be good idea or not.

But, the Yotes and Thrash will eventually have to move, if not now, 10 years from now. Hockey doesn't seem to be able to survive there longterm. The NHL needs cities that, you know, actually have natural ice in the winter.

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Population only tells part of the story too. Disposable income is an important item as well. I don't have any numbers but it's another thing to factor in when you're looking at locations.

And you have to look at commercial support. In Quebec City they had the backing of hundreds of thousands of everyday Joes that would buy tickets, but there wasn't enough business backing. Just between rink advertising, local TV broadcasts and related advertising, purchasing of box seats.... it is these things that give an advantage to a big city like Phoenix that Winnipeg didn't have. Put the Coyotes back in Winnipeg and they have the exact same financial difficulties they have now, but for different reasons.

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seriously. i think hamilton can support a team, but it's the only canadian market i would put an nhl team in that doesn't already have one. i was reading on another board where people thought kitchener-waterloo could get a team - i mean, are these people nuts?

Actually, I'd argue that there was never really a reason to move from Quebec and, hence, it could support and NHL team. As for Winnipeg, I don't know, but could it really be worse than Tampon Bay? I mean, that is core hockey country, wheras Florida is core retirement home country.

Maybe I'm biased, but in my opinion most of the teams that have moved actually moved for poor reasons:

1. Quebec needed a new arena, but they had good support and given the product they had supplied up to that point, the community was amazing. Just imagine what the attendance would've been in the '90s during what turned out to be the Avalanche's glory years.

2. The Whalers are in a fairly similar boat to the above, but the success has been slimmer and later. Still, Hartford supported its team.

3. The North Stars leaving always bothered me alot. I'm not terribly informed on the details here, but I've always felt that any problems could and should have been worked out. After all, Minnesota is a great hockey market. And in the end even the NHL had to put a franchise back there.

4. The Jets leaving bothered me not because of any tradition issue, but because I feel strongly that Canada deserves to have more representation in the NHL. The Senators made up for losing a couple other teams, but still.... this move just smacks of an attempt to capitalize on snowbirds and, frankly, it has failed IMHO.

Did I miss any of the recent moves?

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