metallidevils

A plane crashed on September 22, 2004

136 posts in this topic

And I'm ready to admit that I was wrong about Christian....my original theory on that had the suit and tie version of Christian being an apparition much like Hurley seeing ghosts...maybe something influenced by Jacob, while the island garb Christian was smokey...turns out it was smokey all along...so that's interesting...

And now Jack's all alone so its time to see whats up...things are getting interesting in Alt world too!

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Underdog -- we were only told what Not Locke knows. He can still be on island Christian while something else is off island Christian.

He's already made it clear he can't leave the island - and Christian did appear as a vision for Jack off island a la Charlie and Analucia were to Hurley. Unless the Oceanic 6 was all a dream and they never left the island ever :noclue: you know - fact is if they provide an additional answer then it mattered if they don't then it doesn't.

As you get answers you see that really - who cares - sure whispers are dead people, yeah what the heck a big wave carrying the Black Rock smashed the statue -- blahblahblah -- it really doesn't matter is what all these "answers" seem to be saying. They never mattered it's just s story.

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:hi: Only 5 hours left. This season has been great and Frank still lives, eh PK. :D

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Well, we got a winner for most depressing episode of the season. We need more Desmond, damn it.

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OH NOOOOOOOOooo Dew!!!

I was fine until Hurley cried.

So... I was thinking maybe it's going to end with Claire replacing Locke and Jack replacing Jacob :noclue:

I have no idea though - it doesn't even matter. I feel like the Locke monster has to get his come-upance beyond having to STAY there, like he should have to die. I don't know...

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I've felt for a while now that the final shot of the series is going to be Jack and Locke sitting on a log on the beach like Jacob and Man in Black were when we were first introduced to them, and say something along the same lines ("Do you know how badly I want to kill you?" etc.). The roles of the two, of course, will be completely reversed from the start of the series, where Jack wanted nothing more than to get off the island, and Locke was a man of faith and embraced the island, Jack will be the man of faith and Locke will want to get off.

Edited by RSC

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I've felt for a while now that the final shot of the series is going to be Jack and Locke sitting on a log on the beach like Jacob and Man in Black were when we were first introduced to them, and say something along the same lines ("Do you know how badly I want to kill you?" etc.). The roles of the two, of course, will be completely reversed from the start of the series, where Jack wanted nothing more than to get off the island, and Locke was a man of faith and embraced the island, Jack will be the man of faith and Locke will want to get off.

That would ring a little hollow to me, only for the fact that it isn't really Locke who now wants to leave the island, it's just a being who chooses to look like Locke. So it's not really a role reversal because 1 of the 2 people there position hasn't changed

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I think there has to be something to the fact that Locke (the original not Smokey McLocke) was soooooo into the island and had a complete blind faith toward the things that happened while Jack is essentially becoming that type of person but Jack is seemingly positioned to get what Locke wanted, a purpose....

blind faith < earned faith???

RSC, I've had that inkling to as it lends to the everything is a circle type of idea but then again...

the finale's title is THE END which makes an interesting note if you take a look at Jacob's conversation with MiB when he said it only ends once and everything else is progress

...as far as it being hollow you have to think of an overall arc...its good vs evil, essentially, and MiB is simply the darkness while Jacob is the guardian...although I would almost expect to have the real Locke's memories seep into MiB for that scene to hold significance...Locke (again the original) would have to accept his fate as MiB much like he accepted his fate with paralysis because of what he did to his father in the Alt timeline...

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I'm too lazy to keep trying to figure it all out. But my wife thinks Jack will be the new Jacob and Sawyer will be the new Man in Black.

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Yeah -- I don't think there's any shockaroo going down really, so there's no point in wasting time considering all the possible 6th Sense avenues we could go down, or why the off island time is the way it is this season (although it is sort of panning out to be everyone taking responsibilities for their actions and accepting the consequences and listening to their moral compass a little more closely... except Kate :giggle: )

I really dont think there's any relevant mystery at this point. It's a simple good vs evil - maybe with a little fable like fight your inner demons all you want there comes a time you just have to surrender to that something in between - balance.

My husband, who doesn't even watch the show, just asked for a quick run down and concluded the island is Australia... I said no they just left Australia -- he said "Noo, it's a penal colony" - which I infer to mean it's for outlaw souls who can't find the balance.

but I don't really care :giggle:

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I caught up again last night == bah what a dumb death they wrote Lapidus, it was like oh yeah, we need to get rid of this guy (they should have built in some shock value and did it meaningfully) As far as the off-island story between jack/Locke -- who cares, we get it.. that was a waste. It seems they brewed the last episodes slowly and yet they crammed so much crap in the last episode. I like the idea of Jack-Claire being the last 2 .

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Well, I want to get in before the naysayers come out...seems like this last ep divided the fan base pretty much in half. I'm pretty sure by now this makes me a fan boy but I like the direction. I like the ambiguity between good and evil with still the underlying notion of who is what. I like that the "darkness" or smokey existed before MiB in a way and that the "guardian/evil" dynamic predated Jacob and his brother. Its very interesting to see how Jacob, while a bit whiney this last episode, has done things in contrast to the way his "mother" did. The two most important ones, IMO, are how he gives people choices (when his mother states that he has none) and how he pointed out he kind of got the job by default and he seems meticulous in finding the right candidate.

My only qualm was not seeing a scene where Jacob is confronted by Smokey after he lays his mother and brother to rest...we, at the very least, assume that the flashbacks we have seen regarding MiB and Jacob (the initial intro scene in season 5, the Richard flashback, and others) all happened after the light well incident so it seems like a small part was missing but who knows if we will see that....

Overall the episode did what I hoped and that was show that the focus is on the Losties and not the island's mythology....simply put the island has a power source that everyone wants and will corrupt if taken so there needs to be a guardian in place to protect it...means that if the end is the end then Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, and Kate will be a huuuuuuge part of what's going on, as they should be....

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I dont think anyone cares that much :giggle:

I thought it was an episode that wasn't really necessary. I didn't mind it -- it was sort of pointing out why no answer will be satisfactory. Answers are just a different story - that only leads to more questions.

I liked how it seems Jacob is doing things a little more morally than the woman who raised him - walking the walk a little more. Funny how the dude in black is just like the mom. I think the alternate timeline is the epilogue still

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I dunno, I have a few friends that watch lost and they seemed to have pretty strong opinions one way or the other...but I agree about answer questions leading to more questions and the mother even pointed it out in the episode...

as far as the alt timeline...its a decent possibility but I find it odd that Hurley is almost completely non-existent in that timeline. I could really see everyone of the Oceanic guys but the new Jacob dying in the island timeline and then that same protector having to sacrifice himself (gotta be Hurley or Jack at this point) to keep the alt timeline in balance...sort of like an epilogue for the island timeline but the island timeline is the epilogue for the alt timeline...if you get what I mean...

Edited by UnderDogX

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I bet it will be a little open ended -- so the timelines sort of converge and when there is on island resolution, you sort of have to think what you think about the off island resolution.... probably a little clearer than the black screen of the Sopranos where you didn't know if Tony got wacked or it was just a black screen. I think Tony got wacked - but in order to please everyone they chose to make it ambiguous. I think this will be a little easier to choose a happy ending - but I bet it won't be certain at all.

I think any dissatisfaction will be in the relationships between the 815 passengers maybe not being as resolved as people would like -- or their former relationships not being at the forefront enough. Like Kate and Jack or Kate and Sawyer just for most blatant - one of those relationships maybe both even is going to be invalidated in some audience members' eyes.

John and Helen stands

Rose and Bernard are tough calls - you hate to have Rose stuck with cancer again.

Hurley and Libby stands

Michael and Walt will stand

Ben and Alex will stand - he'll marry her single mom who you just know has to be Rousseau.

Sun and JIn stand for sure - and they have their little girl.

Richard I guess will be allowed to die - hmm - I guess we won't have real resolution for him

Des and Penny --- I dont know...I hope so

Widmore and Hawking - weird -- it seems right I guess -- but neither seems happy because of one and other -- but they each have their kids so..

So you think Charlotte and Daniel -- or will we be left to assume that one?

Charlie and Claire? She never seemed to really love him liek that -- but I guess she can be happy settling - like Widmore and Hawking :P

I think the world wants Sawyer and Juliet so that's got to be!!

I think Jack and Kate would be really interesting - because their bond is so nuts - they never had the place to relax and just be together - the island has always been in their way. but they also both always let other things get in their way before the crash even with other people... so will they be emotionally free and clear enough to get together? How can Kate ever get there? She's got the longest road to travel it feels like... :saddevil:

Sayid -- will he hook up with Shannon? That's what I think :giggle: When your brother has your true love -- that's just got to die out --- Shannon needs him and he won't feel like he owes her something sort of like he did Nadia. I just think that would be a great ending for those two. I dont knwo what will happen with Boone...

I think Ana Lucia is Jack's ex-wife :giggle: probably not but it would be cute. Juliet as his ex would be cute too -- they're both doctors and all. And I'd love for Juliet to have gotten to be a mom!!

My ending is that the off island ends at John and Helen's wedding - so Sawyer sees Anthony Cooper and feels real closure - he understands it may not seem it, but there IS justice - he doesn't have to make it happen (and he'll hook up with Juliet Jack's ex there).

Miles.. hmm... maybe he'll hook up with the English one Locke stabbed in the back? Maybe he and Boone? :giggle:

Anyhow -- I just hope the end is John and Helen's wedding :evil:

Edited by Pepperkorn

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Oh the one thing that bugs me is Clementine! I hope she's still there... ahhh Miles can hook up with uh oh what was her name Casey or something? Whoever Clem's mom is.

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Oh yeah -- and we see the Habs hoisting the Cup on the TV.

See??? The Stanley Cup should not be hoisted in JUNE!!!! That's just nuts.... <_< Shorten the season!! :rant:

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You forgot Lapidus in your neat package ...

I agree that this past epi was unnecessary fluff - why do I care about the smoke monster at this point? if anything it should have been epi number one this season. I dont like where the end this is heading for. .

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And now we see how it all ends...can't wait, Sunday will be a very sad day.

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Why sad? I think it will be cute!

So I was thinking, maybe Ben will be the keeper of the Island after Jack gets rid of the smoke monster. I like the way Ben is REALLY convoluted now - you think he's good, pretending to be bad - but a lot of the time you find out -- no he really WAS bad. SO who knows???!:!? Is he always flip flopping? I feel like he's good now. Killing is neither good nor bad - this he knows. And I think he's pieced together what's going on. He probably has the most total view of what's going on so really he's probably the most Jacob-like.

I was thinking maybe Richard will guard the island too. I think he's not dead. What if Richard is the actual anthropomorphic personification of the island? He just had Jacob and Smokey play things out -- I dont know -- I feel like people will be released to live their lives. :noclue:

Richard and Ben and I guess maybe Lapidus are all wild cards. We haven't seen Richard or Lapidus in the off-island time line.

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I was going to say how Richard couldn't be in the off-island timeline, because there was no island so he therefore could never recieve immortality from Jacob...but then I remembered the opening shot of the season, which was the island underwater, the Dharma barracks included. So I think there was an island at some point, and Richard may very well be a part of the off-island timeline, though I still kind of doubt it.

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Well sad for me simply because I hate when good shows end...

but, that said, I could see it play out like this...and for the record I think Lapidus is gone, he's not needed so they got rid of him, however anticlimactic it was...In the Alt timeline we have a set up for Locke getting fixed by Jack...also we have the big meeting place...the concert...this is where Sawyer will track Kate and meet Juliet (who I think will be Jack's ex-wife) which will set up his island memories. There Jack will meet Kate and fully realize his memories as well....That will make every one of the original Oceanic 815ers remember their island life and they will forge new lives all connected in some way...back on the island I think that Desmond, since he has a resistance to the electromagnetism, which is what the light seems to be, will be pushed into the light source with Ben's C4...this will be done by Ben and Smokey (in the process Ben will die) As the island starts to self-destruct, so to speak, amends will be made by Jack and Kate, Hurley will die in some act of unselfishness and Sawyer will be killed in some other heroic act. And in the end Jack, with Kate by his side, will make the ultimate sacrifice...sacrificing himself to ensure that Smokey goes down with the island...sinking it thus ending the island timeline and merging it with the sunken island timeline we have been watching as the "alt" timeline all season....

but that's just my guess....

A quick edit to put in what I believe the point of the "alt" universe is....I believe that it was a culmination of all of the scientific stuff Dharma and Faraday worked with. A kind of Yin to the philosophical Yang that we have seen conflict...science vs faith...The bomb worked, as Faraday believed it would, and created a way around the paradox of changing the past to change the future....and with it Desmond, being the special person he his, was able to be the key cog in both timelines...the entire point of the alt timeline was to create those bonds and relationships that the characters originally lost in their lives. Through the explosion they created a new beginning for themselves and while they may be flawed still they, with a lot of Desmond's help, were able to not be like Jacob (which he said is why he chose them...they were flawed but more importantly alone like him...)

Also, Hurley took Sayid to meet up with Shannon...at least I think that's what will trigger his and her island memories....

Edited by UnderDogX

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I think UnderDog makes a good point about Desmond being the one to be able to actually do something about the light. Six years later and I still don't know what the hell is going to happen! I think even for a television program, I'll be sad, too. . . really loved the show and got a bit of a quivering lip when Sun and Jin bit the dust.

My big question is. . .where is Quincy??!! The dog must have proper closure as well!

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