thelastonealive

Official: River Rats sold, will move to Charlotte

77 posts in this topic

Why do people think Trenton is "Flyers Country"? Last I checked Trenton is in Mercer county which is in Central Jersey. not South. Trenton isn't as close to Philly as you think it is. By your logic Lowell is "Bruins Country"

Um, all of New England except for Fairfield County and Northern Vermont IS Boston Bruins country.

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Why do people think Trenton is "Flyers Country"? Last I checked Trenton is in Mercer county which is in Central Jersey. not South. Trenton isn't as close to Philly as you think it is. By your logic Lowell is "Bruins Country"

Lowell is :puke: Bruins :puke: country.

I might agree that the Devils don't have to concede Trenton and South Jersey to the Flyers. But the Devils would have to work to win the fans. Taking them for granted is the best way to lose them altogether.

Edited by Shtikl

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I think people want to see Lowell move to NJ purely for their own self-interests.

In makes zero sense:

1.) You are already in a cluttered hockey market with 4 pro teams within easy travel distance.

2.) Your second minor team is already nearby

3.) Who is going to go to these games (and if they do your cutting into the budget for the folks that may save the $$$ to get to the rock maybe 3-4 times per year)

People don't understand Lowell (other than Shiktl). The Tsongas arena is shared with a Division 1 NCAA Hockey Team UMASS Lowell and 30 minutes drive from the Bruins.

Not to mention Worcester, Portland, Manchester, and even Providence are all about an hour to 1:30 away.

What did they expect?

Having said that, there is a strong culture of hockey amongst MASS folk. Stronger than any short of MIN or MICH I would say in the U.S. It started back when the Bruins were hot and came of age with the influence of the 1980 Miracle team. People understand and love the sport.

I'm not sure moving a team near an NHL team who's achilles heel is attendance problems makes a lot of business sense.

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Why do people think Trenton is "Flyers Country"? Last I checked Trenton is in Mercer county which is in Central Jersey. not South. Trenton isn't as close to Philly as you think it is. By your logic Lowell is "Bruins Country"

because it's true, plus the fact that trenton was the flyers' ECHL affiliate for years.

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If Lowell moves to NJ, I say it should be somewhere in South Jersey so that maybe the Devils could make some kind of (however small it may be) expansion of the fan-base in other parts of NJ other than basically 1/2 of North Jersey. Atlantic City sounds fine. It's not like minor league franchises actually make that much money, do they?

Edited by nyrsuck26

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If Lowell moves to NJ, I say it should be somewhere in South Jersey so that maybe the Devils could make some kind of (however small it may be) expansion of the fan-base in other parts of NJ other than basically 1/2 of North Jersey. Atlantic City sounds fine. It's not like minor league franchises actually make that much money, do they?

I would love to see Lowell move to Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City. I do not see it happening whatsoever though....

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Why do people think Trenton is "Flyers Country"? Last I checked Trenton is in Mercer county which is in Central Jersey. not South. Trenton isn't as close to Philly as you think it is. By your logic Lowell is "Bruins Country"

The correct answer is COMCAST. For how long was Comcast the only cable choice in that area? They got fed a diet of Flyers games for decades. It's going to take some effort and $$$ to erase that many years of brainwashing.

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Canes are probably tired of paying all that money to fly guys back and forth.

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Atlantic City's been done and failed before. And as much as I like this team and franchise, if a team died in AC before, the Devils aren't gonna be the ones to turn it around. AC's a weird market, too, because few people actually LIVE there.

I understand why the Devils would want Lowell in NJ. It'll serve the need to have all levels of hockey in the organization close together under Lou's watchful eye, and you can try to market the whole Jersey's Team angle even further. It's probably not something that can work, but I see the reasoning.

Unfortunately like Tri said, the Meadowlands is really the most sensible option, and that's probably never happening. Outside of that complex, there's Trenton, AC, and not a whole lot else. I'd love to see them do something in Hoboken or Jersey City, but there'd have to be a whole new facility built, and it'd still be right on top of Newark.

Honest question: In the days of the Flyers/Phantoms/Titans (before changing the name to Devils and alienating a bunch of the Flyers fans who were supporting Trenton anyway), how well did each team draw?

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Atlantic City's been done and failed before. And as much as I like this team and franchise, if a team died in AC before, the Devils aren't gonna be the ones to turn it around. AC's a weird market, too, because few people actually LIVE there.

I understand why the Devils would want Lowell in NJ. It'll serve the need to have all levels of hockey in the organization close together under Lou's watchful eye, and you can try to market the whole Jersey's Team angle even further. It's probably not something that can work, but I see the reasoning.

Unfortunately like Tri said, the Meadowlands is really the most sensible option, and that's probably never happening. Outside of that complex, there's Trenton, AC, and not a whole lot else. I'd love to see them do something in Hoboken or Jersey City, but there'd have to be a whole new facility built, and it'd still be right on top of Newark.

Honest question: In the days of the Flyers/Phantoms/Titans (before changing the name to Devils and alienating a bunch of the Flyers fans who were supporting Trenton anyway), how well did each team draw?

Re: Watchful eye... well isn't his son Chris there keeping tabs on everything?

I think sometimes the distance from the parent team is a good thing for the development of the kids without the constant watchful eye of fan expectations.

MAybe this is why many franchises choose to do this

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Having said that, there is a strong culture of hockey amongst MASS folk. Stronger than any short of MIN or MICH I would say in the U.S. It started back when the Bruins were hot and came of age with the influence of the 1980 Miracle team. People understand and love the sport.

If i read that right, are you saying Mass. started having a strong culture of hockey because of 1980 and the Bruins of that time?

I disagree strongly. Mass. was a hotbed of hockey long before that.

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Re: Watchful eye... well isn't his son Chris there keeping tabs on everything?

I think sometimes the distance from the parent team is a good thing for the development of the kids without the constant watchful eye of fan expectations.

MAybe this is why many franchises choose to do this

Just a hunch on my part, really. I think having the team close by for development and travel purposes trumps attendance, sales, and logic in this case - but again, that's only me and only a general feeling I have.

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Why do people think Trenton is "Flyers Country"? Last I checked Trenton is in Mercer county which is in Central Jersey. not South. Trenton isn't as close to Philly as you think it is. By your logic Lowell is "Bruins Country"

you're kidding right? The Devils have proven by painting this town red - Lou's own words, attendance has only continued to plummet. The thought slapping their logo on the sweaters would draw fans, the sth base is down way over 50%, Trenton draws ~2400 less per game than the league average, 2nd worst in the entire league. What more proof do you need. It's a dying market.

With that said they don't give a crap about attendance at the minor league level, it's this simple. Thelastonealive I think you're dead on, the thought process is if they home grow one or two that make it to the NHL it's all worth it because they have those young players by the balls salary wise which saves them the much bigger dollars of having to go out on the market and pay the going rate. One or two young guys through the system pays the operating costs or at least offsets the loses of the minor league teams which are also probably used as tax rightoffs to begin with.

And really talking about AC is wasting your breath at this point that horse has been beaten to death over and over. To start AC not going tie up the Hall with hockey teams that draw flies, they tried that already. The Bullies won a championship and we always very good and didn't draw s*it, they got no support from the casinos and with all the other options down there minor league hockey isn't even on the radar with the casino crowd. We didn't miss a Trenton game in AC for 3 seasons in a row. It's a god awful place for hockey to with zero atmosphere and the placement of he rink leaves one end completely open where they use to park RV's in the big open space.

Edited by titans04

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You Albany fans aren't going to like to what I've heard will happen. Hartford is done, and the Rangers are moving their team to Albany once Carolina moves Albany to Charlotte.

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Why do people think Trenton is "Flyers Country"? Last I checked Trenton is in Mercer county which is in Central Jersey. not South. Trenton isn't as close to Philly as you think it is. By your logic Lowell is "Bruins Country"

Your nuts if you argue that Trenton is up for grabs.

Are there Devils fans in Trenton/Hamilton, yes... but its definitely a Philly area.

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Just a hunch on my part, really. I think having the team close by for development and travel purposes trumps attendance, sales, and logic in this case - but again, that's only me and only a general feeling I have.

I was a STH in Lowell for the first two seasons and I have to disagree with that assessment. First of all, Lowell is very close to Newark. Hockey people spend their lives traveling. 4-4.5 hrs is a quick car or train trip. Also, there is not all that much to do in Lowell for a young guy. Yes, it's close to Boston but not close enough to make it worth going to Boston regularly. It's easier for these guys to stay out of trouble and focus on hockey in Lowell. It pains me to say that Lowell is not a long term answer because I really enjoyed having seats there, but moving the AHL team to NJ would be a disaster as far as I am concerned.

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Honest question: In the days of the Flyers/Phantoms/Titans (before changing the name to Devils and alienating a bunch of the Flyers fans who were supporting Trenton anyway), how well did each team draw?

As someone who's gone to games in Trenton since day 1 I can say the Titans drew extremely well for their first several years of existence. Friday and Saturday night games were always sold out, and the atmosphere was incredible. They actually added seats above the upper level behind the goals to accommodate more fans. You'd have Flyer, Devil, and Ranger fans sitting side by side by side and all cheering for the same team and getting along. Titan games used to be broadcast on CN8 once in a while and I remember them interviewing a visiting player and he said it was the most feared building in the league to play in.

Somewhere around 2004 or so the crowds began to thin. I think season ticket holders were beginning to get upset with management but I'm not sure. What struck me as weird was the lockout year when you'd think the place would be packed with fans starving for hockey and it was actually pretty empty all season. Their cup run that year kept me sane and is a great memory for me. They even got Bob Arsena to do many of their playoff games and Raymond Foose to sing the national anthem.

Anyway, it just got worse from there, and now is downright depressing going to games there. They were bragging tonight on their twitter that they won in front of the largest crowd of the season tonight. It was a crowd of 3600 people. They used to draw twice that every Friday night as the Titans.

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If i read that right, are you saying Mass. started having a strong culture of hockey because of 1980 and the Bruins of that time?

I disagree strongly. Mass. was a hotbed of hockey long before that.

Of course you are right SPJ - there's a long history of it.

I'm just saying that when the 1980 miracle game hit, every kid in MASS was on skates.

Having grown up in MASS, every kid I knew was into hockey. Probably similar reaction nationwide.

I'm just saying people in MA appreciate hockey at any level.

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Why do people think Trenton is "Flyers Country"? Last I checked Trenton is in Mercer county which is in Central Jersey. not South. Trenton isn't as close to Philly as you think it is. By your logic Lowell is "Bruins Country"

It's in a part of NJ where the team loyalties begin to split but I don't think it's as far from Philly as you think and it does count as "local" for some people who are in definite Flyers territory (Bucks County, especially the Yardley/Morrisville areas just across the river). It's approximately 13 miles for me to go to Trenton and about an extra 10 miles to get to South Philly although the drive times are comparable without traffic. The Sun National Bank Center is slightly closer to the Wachovia Center than it is to the Rock.

I used to go to a few games a year when they were the Titans but I think I've only been back twice since the Devils took over. If the Devils ever moved their AHL affiliation to Trenton, that might actually be enough to draw me in since the Phantoms moved out of the area and it would be the closest chance to see AHL prospects. The ECHL games alone without a rooting interest unfortunately aren't a strong enough draw for me.

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I'm just saying people in MA appreciate hockey at any level.

I don't know about that so much now. The Bruins are an after thought here right now. I struggle to find people to talk hockey with.

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The only reason the team is still in Lowell is because they have a sweetheart deal with the arena. When that expires I see no reason why they wouldn't move the team to Trenton. They can draw flies in Trenton just as well as they can draw flies in Lowell (both teams average around 2k). As for the travel considerations, the Hurricanes want to move their prospects to Charlotte!

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I lived in the North Shore of Mass for 8 years and still travel up there often. Boston/Eastern Mass are huge with the Bruins and have seen a revival in interest since the insane Montreal-Boston Game 6 of 2008 after a down period where the franchise was mired in mediocrity and public relations hell. The truth is nobody in the Merrimack Valley and/or Eastern Massachusetts cares about a non-Bruins affiliated AHL hockey team especially when they can drive to Providence to see the Baby B's. Anybody who needs a spectator hockey fix can get it with college hockey at BU, BC, Harvard, UMass, UML, Merrimack, UNH, and Providence College which are all within 90 minutes' drive. Lowell has always been a terrible AHL market and Tsongas Arena has been a white elephant from the moment it opened.

Manchester works because while people in NH are "New England" fans there is a provincial "New Hampshire" rooting interest locally (similar to UConn fans that live in Fairfield County), Worcester kinda works thanks to it being the most populous city in New England and its toughest to get into Boston from the west, Providence works because they're the Baby B's.

Edited by mdsieve

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Worcester kinda works thanks to it being the most populous city in New England...

At least after Providence and Boston...

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At least after Providence and Boston...

Worcester is bigger population wise than Providence.

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Worcester is bigger population wise than Providence.

Not drawing that well, though. AHL says they're 3rd-worst in the league, just above Springfield and, of course, Lowell.

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