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Time for LL to make some Major Changes..


redruM

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I know playoffs are barely just begun, and yet the Devs are already done...

This team is a typical Lemaire team, steady in the regular season, but they never step i nup in the playoffs ( see '97, '98 & '99 for reminders)

This team showed no heart, and no chemistry..

there are so many players I'm fed up w/ If I were LL, half this team would be gone in the off season...

2 bright spots, Martin has been good, and Marty has shown me flashed of brilliance I have not seen in at least 2 post seasons...

Other than that, no heasrt no effort and stupid stupid play from most of these guys... very very disappointing...

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I know playoffs are barely just begun, and yet the Devs are already done...

This team is a typical Lemaire team, steady in the regular season, but they never step i nup in the playoffs ( see '97, '98 & '99 for reminders)

This team showed no heart, and no chemistry..

there are so many players I'm fed up w/ If I were LL, half this team would be gone in the off season...

2 bright spots, Martin has been good, and Marty has shown me flashed of brilliance I have not seen in at least 2 post seasons...

Other than that, no heasrt no effort and stupid stupid play from most of these guys... very very disappointing...

It's not over yet...so don't say they are done

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Wow, this is REALLY depressing. Since 2003, they have been a consistent regular season powerhouse but never go anywhere in the playoffs. I certainly don't expect them to win the cup every year, but they should at least be getting past the first round. As much as I'd like to see them win 3 in a row hear, I can't realistically see that happen.

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Well look at it this way, the Kovalchuk deal was maybe the kiss of death for the Devils ass oppose to the Mogilny deal in 2000. In 2000 the Devils were already good and this year, the Devils struggled mightily before the deal and it gave them a minor but not major spark. Look at the Devils defense since 2003:

2004 Playoffs:

Albelin Rafalski

White Niedermayer

Hale Martin

(Notes: A winning combo but it was a cup defense year, so I can let it go)

2006 Playoffs:

Matvichuk Rafalski

White Martin

Lukowich Klee

(Notes: I would say that had the Rag series not been a sweep, the Devils would have beaten the Canes)

2007 Playoffs:

Matvichuk Rafalski

White Martin

Lukowich/Oduya Greene

(Notes: Ottawa was a good team)

2008 Playoffs:

Oduya Martin

White Mottau

Salvador Greene

Extras: Rachunek, Brookbank, Vishnevski

(Notes: You all remember what happened)

2009 Playoffs and This playoffs its basically no experience. White and Martin are the only experienced defensemen. Salvador, Greene and Skoula are somewhat experienced, but Greene is showing promise and Salvador and Skoula are a bit diminished in terms of their play. Basically I say keep White, Martin and Greene and ship out the rest and add quality experienced defensemen in the offseason.

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i know some people are going to call me dumb but i am trading Salvador and Greene next year. Salvador seems to have some sort of foot problem every year and Greene is just to small. he did a great job filling in for Martin but i think we need to get bigger on defense. everyone else around us has

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i know some people are going to call me dumb but i am trading Salvador and Greene next year. Salvador seems to have some sort of foot problem every year and Greene is just to small. he did a great job filling in for Martin but i think we need to get bigger on defense. everyone else around us has

Other than Pronger I really don't know who you're referring to here. And trading Greene is a terrible idea.

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i know some people are going to call me dumb but i am trading Salvador and Greene next year. Salvador seems to have some sort of foot problem every year and Greene is just to small. he did a great job filling in for Martin but i think we need to get bigger on defense. everyone else around us has

Are you kidding? Salvador is an animal and Greene has been our best defensemen and has played like an all-star.

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We need to trade Marty to a contender so he has a chance to win one more Cup before he retires. It's the right thing to do for all he's done for the franchise. If Chicago doesn't win this year, send him to the Blackhawks for Kyle Beach and their next two 1st round picks.

Edited by Z-Man
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Other than Pronger I really don't know who you're referring to here. And trading Greene is a terrible idea.

I was just going to say that just across the ice you see Timonen. If by around he means the division then I see guys like Streit, Del Zotto, Letang......

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IMHO, Mottau and White should be sent away, and I'm have always been a HUGE white supporter snce 2000 when Most did NOT want him on the playoffs roster. But he;s slwoed a bit and has been making some really bad decisions...

as for the fowards, Pando, Neids ( unless Scotty signs here) McAmmond, Elias, Langer Peters and rolston ( another player I have loved over the years) , can all go, Zharkov should be playing, the kid brings a tone of energy to the ice.

LL needs to make the core younger, I'm sure you will all go crazy about Elias, but Philly has been the 1 franchise that he usually kills, and even he was a no show this year....

I thought the Kovy trade was great, but he's 1 and done and now we have lost Bergfors... not sure how LL remakes this team, but maybe its time to trade marty ( another unpopular idea) and get what they can, he was very good during these playoffs, and LL might be able to rake a GM over the coals for marty...

IDK< i'm just really really frustrated....

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Tony Amonte!

need I say more?

Seriously -- there's no one out there to play or coach for the Devils that will significantly change a thing. Lou's gotten the best he can. Getting a new GM will not change that either.

Everyone's expectations for Lemaire are ridiculous as well. This is his first season. You know, I'm surprised a lot of you fans who watch the team game in game out have ZERO feel for the chemistry of this team. How can you expect Lemaire or any other new coach to walk in the room and change everything up.

You can't, because you walk in the door and think - nice! Perfect locker room environment, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Kovalchuk wasn't as happy as he was when he got here because he walked into a viper pit -- or party central, he walked into hockey locker room perfection.

I'm not saying Lemaire won't want to resign after this - he may well - but simply because, like all before him, he sees no way forward. Personally I dont think he's a quitter. i dont think he'll be able to resist getting these guys in the right place. and I think the team needs him.

Personally I think the team should keep Kovalchuk, Parise, Zajac, Clarkson, Greene, Martin. I like everyone else well enough and if the team is stuck as is, it won't kill them. Obviously a center is needed. I think that's Lou primary concern.

Of course you keep Brodeur - however his preparations for retirement are distracting. The braces say a lot. Seems stupid doesn't it? Seems really insignificant right? but THAT is the kind of thing that pulls focus on a subconscious level.

Edited by Pepperkorn
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We need to get rid of:

Pando

Nieder

Rolston

We need to use as trading chips:

White (I think he's worth something)

Clarkson (if Burke wants him for Kaberle, it might be a good idea)

What we need:

Top end defenseman who can be tough/puck movers.

I like Pavel Kubina, but at 33, we better be careful with money/length. We need to find a defenseman who can fill a 3M spot that White takes up.

White isn't worth it anymore, not when we have Salvador who does the same thing.

Kubina-Martin

Sal-Greene

Eckford, Corrente, Mottau, other 5th pair.

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I feel like I didn't even sleep last night. The way this has all turned out has me more bothered then last year to be honest. How is it possible that we're having threads like this only 7 days into the playoffs?

I'll always believe that the 4th win is the hardest to get so there is always a chance technically, but I really woke up this morning feeling like there wasn't even another game to play. Basically zero hope. I'm just in total disbelief of how easily this team has surrendered in this series, save for Zubrus, Marty, Greene, Parise and Kovalchuk.

This really should be the last ride for this group. I appreciate all the other success they have delivered but as far as the playoffs are concerned, they can't hack it and haven't been able to for many years now.

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I feel like I didn't even sleep last night. The way this has all turned out has me more bothered then last year to be honest. How is it possible that we're having threads like this only 7 days into the playoffs?

I'll always believe that the 4th win is the hardest to get so there is always a chance technically, but I really woke up this morning feeling like there wasn't even another game to play. Basically zero hope. I'm just in total disbelief of how easily this team has surrendered in this series, save for Zubrus, Marty, Greene, Parise and Kovalchuk.

This really should be the last ride for this group. I appreciate all the other success they have delivered but as far as the playoffs are concerned, they can't hack it and haven't been able to for many years now.

Meh, we can have this talk all day. This team isn't surrendering, they are working hard, they just aren't that good. I don't understand why it's hard to believe that part of it. Our D isn't good enough, we can't make a breakout, or have a D jump in the play and our bottom lines aren't producing.

I'm not sure what last ride means?

We have some very talented players here. Very. We need to build a defense though, and that hasn't been done since Nieder left.

I like White, but I think we could get something for him and a package. We have rookies and Salvador to cover that spot. I like Mottau, but unless he's a back pairing 14 minutes guy a night, time to let him go.

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We need to trade Marty to a contender so he has a chance to win one more Cup before he retires. It's the right thing to do for all he's done for the franchise. If Chicago doesn't win this year, send him to the Blackhawks for Kyle Beach and their next two 1st round picks.

I said the same thing last night and was called every name in the book. He's my favorite player, the face of the franchise, and all of that. That doesn't mean we shouldn't consider trading him. He might be more valuable to us in a trade. The league has definitely changed, and we can't seem to put him to good use.

On the other hand, he has a no-trade clause, and I think the Devils fans would revolt (for real).

It's a tough situation, we are the envy of the league not having questions at goalie for the past 15 years. On the other hand, we have had questions at two or three other positions instead for the past 5 or 6.

In reality, I wish we could trade Marty - but I just don't think it's feasible.

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Meh, we can have this talk all day. This team isn't surrendering, they are working hard, they just aren't that good. I don't understand why it's hard to believe that part of it. Our D isn't good enough, we can't make a breakout, or have a D jump in the play and our bottom lines aren't producing.

I'm not sure what last ride means?

We have some very talented players here. Very. We need to build a defense though, and that hasn't been done since Nieder left.

I like White, but I think we could get something for him and a package. We have rookies and Salvador to cover that spot. I like Mottau, but unless he's a back pairing 14 minutes guy a night, time to let him go.

see, i think the defense was capable of a long run - this is on par w/ pittsburgh's defense from last year.

you are 100% correct that outside of 4 forwards, no other player has really been a factor in the last 5 games but i'm not sure it's because they all stink. sure the bottom 6 has been terrible but i don't see philly bottom 6 tearing it up either. i suppose grioux if you want to call him that has been very good but powe, betts, JVR - i've seen very little there. carter was a non factor until last night. briere was quiet also.

until last night, the devils defense was acceptable - you could even say they were ok last night - they gave up 2 PP goals and terribly weak goal that wasn't their fault and a 4 on 4 goal that is hit a stick and marty missed.

the problem is that they are too concerned with puck possession and have no answer to a forecheck - something that falls squarely on lemaire. the team also has no offensive forecheck because it's gone back to basing its offense on transition and counter attack with an emphasis on the stretch pass.

i was hopeful last night after the first because they were standing the flyers up @ the blue line, disrupting their timing and getting them offsides. but then they began to sit back - play passive with the puck and hold onto it far too long in their own end.

there have been absolutely NO adjustments from the devils in this series. what does it say when the only thing they talk about is how they have to "be more intense" and nobody says, we need to change what we're doing.

of course, lemaire will say they're "fine." they're playing his system correctly. it's just a bad system.

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the Flyers forecheck is crushing our D and exposing their inability to clear the zone. IMO, this is the biggest issue to address, next a center, then jettisoning the older & slower guys (Nieds / Pando)

Rolston is here for another year (or gasp, two).

White/Mottau/Salvador are all the same, with unfortunately Whitey bringing the least to the table now. Skoula will go.

Fraser gets a full-time shot next season. Salmela will see some time too

Greene / Martin / Salvador stay.

We need what all teams need --- size AND speed on D. Tough to find, but it can be done

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of course, lemaire will say they're "fine." they're playing his system correctly. it's just a bad system.

I agree with one minor correction... The system isn't "bad", it's out-dated. Our system has worked since 1993 or 1994, and has allowed us to plug and play hundreds of players into the line up over the years. We've been a model of consistency in the regular season. This is an accomplishment in itself.

Given the rule changes, the changes in play (more forechecking / cycling), and the changes in how defensemen are expected to contribute, I really think the system is just old. I don't know how you set about fixing it, but we need to do something!

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Meh, we can have this talk all day. This team isn't surrendering, they are working hard, they just aren't that good. I don't understand why it's hard to believe that part of it. Our D isn't good enough, we can't make a breakout, or have a D jump in the play and our bottom lines aren't producing.

I'm not sure what last ride means?

We have some very talented players here. Very. We need to build a defense though, and that hasn't been done since Nieder left.

I like White, but I think we could get something for him and a package. We have rookies and Salvador to cover that spot. I like Mottau, but unless he's a back pairing 14 minutes guy a night, time to let him go.

I disagree about the working hard. It's not a team effort out there. And if they are working hard, then Philly is sure as hell working a lot harder. There are holes on the team but you would think from watching these last 2 games that Philly was eons ahead of New jersey. That is not the case. They're a good team but they're no world beaters. But why has it literally looked like men against boys the last 2 games? The sad thing is that they were showing signs of this for months. The most disheartening thing is that this team is playing like a team that looks like they rather just go home at this point.

Last ride means that this group of core players has had years of chances to show something at this tim of the year. They have faled yet again. It's time for a change. I'm not calling for a complete overhaul, it's not possible anyway, but a slightly different direction is needed imo.

As for White and Mottau, they're likley worth more to New Jersey then any other team. Mottau is actually very good considering his salary but he is Mike Mottau while White has one eye. Can't see much interest for these two.

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The system is the same for every team, maybe side for Washington. The system means absolutely nothing.

i should be more specific - it's the implementation of the system.

sure - every team in the league looks to clog the neutral zone and try to transition.

but some teams put on a heavy forecheck (like the flyers) and other don't (like the devils).

some teams believe in entering the offensive zone in waves (the rangers) and others believe in 3 forwards hitting the line at the same time (devils).

some teams don't believe in quick outs from the zone and look for a great first pass in the face of pressure (devils) while others will do that and look to capture the puck in the neutral zone (pittsburgh).

if you can't tell, i'm all on lemaire on this one.

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