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DevsFan7545

New Kovy Update ("As the Kovy Turns")

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Well they pretty much just made fun of all of us over ESPN on Sportsnation....

What happened?

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This whole situation has me :rant: and :argh:

This sucks.

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In this case it's written that the league can void contracts based on intent. So in this case "spirit" will very much have legal standing as both sides argue which future is more likely, the one where Ilya plays at 44 and the one where he doesn't.

Prove it......

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Prove it......

Prove what? It's in the clause, it's been posted like 5 or 6 times.

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That is certainly an argument the NHLPA will make to an arbitrator if it gets that far. The NHL will counter that they have violated the catchall provision of the CBA that says you can't structure a deal in such a way as to circumvent the cap. The NHLPA will respond that virtually identical deals have been approved in the past. NHL will respond that this one is different for reasons, x, y and z. NHLPA says those are all distinctions without differences.

Who the arbitration sides with is anyone's guess.

From a legal standpoint, the Devils have not transgressed the rules. Therefore, by law (CBA) the NHL's rejection of the contract is in itself a breach of contract (CBA)

Bettman and the NHL will lose, and will be susceptible to a counter suit from NJ.

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From a legal standpoint, the Devils have not transgressed the rules. Therefore, by law (CBA) the NHL's rejection of the contract is in itself a breach of contract (CBA)

Bettman and the NHL will lose, and will be susceptible to a counter suit from NJ.

According to the NHL they have violated the rules because the intent of this contract is not to have Kovy play until he is 44. The NHLPA will argue he will, the NHL will argue he won't. All Devils fans thought he wouldn't before this came down so I believe the NHL would have a stronger case and win. A "reasonable man" would not believe Kovy was going to play out this contract until 44 and that is the normal standard used in an argument like this, IMO.

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Prove what? It's in the clause, it's been posted like 5 or 6 times.

Rules and regulations like high sticking or hooking are concrete. "Spirit" is subjective and has absolutely no relevance when it comes down to written law.

Prove it...

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According to the NHL they have violated the rules because the intent of this contract is not to have Kovy play until he is 44. The NHLPA will argue he will, the NHL will argue he won't. All Devils fans thought he wouldn't before this came down so I believe the NHL would have a stronger case and win. A "reasonable man" would not believe Kovy was going to play out this contract until 44 and that is the normal standard used in an argument like this, IMO.

Indeed, but until Kovy is 44 we'll never know. And that sir is the kicker, the NHL has no grounds and they CAN'T prove Kovy won't play when he's 44.

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Rules and regulations like high sticking or hooking are concrete. "Spirit" is subjective and has absolutely no relevance when it comes down to written law.

Prove it...

Prove what? You're not telling me what I need to prove.

You're completely incorrect that the "spirit" of things doesn't come into play. "Reasonable" is all about the spirit of a thing. The league gets to rule on intent of a contract and the NHLPA is going to challenge the leagues ruling in this. An arbiter will decide who is right, but it certainly won't be based on the fact that Kovalchuk will be playing at 44, since nobody can know that either way. It will be based on if the arbiter believes the NHLPA can show that it is likely he does play or that the NHL can show that it is unlikely he would be playing then and that the contract was designed in a way with the likelihood Kovy isn't playing in mind.

Indeed, but until Kovy is 44 we'll never know. And that sir is the kicker, the NHL has no grounds and they CAN'T prove Kovy won't play when he's 44.

The NHL doesn't have to prove it. They only have to show that it is very unlikely and that the contract was designed with this unlikelihood in mind. I think they can do that, since we all believe that to be true. What the arbiter will decide who knows.

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Per TGfireandice:

I can confirm, via a source, that Devs knew as early as Mon. night that NHL would reject Kovy deal -- as ESPN's EJ Hradek reported earlier.

Devils went on with Tuesday news conference announcing signing anyway.

Hmm...

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Per TGfireandice:

I can confirm, via a source, that Devs knew as early as Mon. night that NHL would reject Kovy deal -- as ESPN's EJ Hradek reported earlier.

Devils went on with Tuesday news conference announcing signing anyway.

Hmm...

Holy crap this IS a soap opera.

& dont tell me TG is getting super secret sources now as well.

Edited by Elias26

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Per TGfireandice:

I can confirm, via a source, that Devs knew as early as Mon. night that NHL would reject Kovy deal -- as ESPN's EJ Hradek reported earlier.

Devils went on with Tuesday news conference announcing signing anyway.

Hmm...

Ya, I think both sides, Kovy and the Devils, know Kovy is staying a Devil, it's just if something will have to change through the challenge or not. So this becomes a bit of a power move where the league looks like a jerk and gets the initial support behind the NHLPA.

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This is all just...so pointless. I'm super glad the NHL chose the devils as the team to try to make an example of.

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Per TGfireandice:

I can confirm, via a source, that Devs knew as early as Mon. night that NHL would reject Kovy deal -- as ESPN's EJ Hradek reported earlier.

Devils went on with Tuesday news conference announcing signing anyway.

Hmm...

The question is if Kovalchuk and Grossman knew.

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The question is if Kovalchuk and Grossman knew.

You would have to think yet. The league would reach out to both sides of a voided deal, not just one. It wouldn't make sense to just reach out to one, so unless I hear different I'll believe both sides knew.

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This is all just...so pointless. I'm super glad the NHL chose the devils as the team to try to make an example of.

Christ almighty, it sure as Sh!t isn't the first time this has happened.

NZT

Trapezoid

Nashville

And it won't be the last....

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So the Devils knew on Monday that the contract is rejected, yet proceeded on and were all smiles in the press conference. This means one of two things:

1) The Devils knew about the rejection, but didn't inform Kovy in the hopes that by doing the press conference, he would be more or less "tied" to our organization and any re-negotiations on the contract will be easier. (This is very bad news as it can backfire with Kovy getting pissed off and leaving)

2) The Devils AND Grossman / Kovalchuk knew about the rejection, but had no reservations with going through with it because they were confident the rejection would be thrown out in arbitration. (This is good news because for some reason I trust Lou's legal / CBA expertise over the league's)

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So the Devils knew on Monday that the contract is rejected, yet proceeded on and were all smiles in the press conference. This means one of two things:

1) The Devils knew about the rejection, but didn't inform Kovy in the hopes that by doing the press conference, he would be more or less "tied" to our organization and any re-negotiations on the contract will be easier. (This is very bad news as it can backfire with Kovy getting pissed off and leaving)

2) The Devils AND Grossman / Kovalchuk knew about the rejection, but had no reservations with going through with it because they were confident the rejection would be thrown out in arbitration. (This is good news because for some reason I trust Lou's legal / CBA expertise over the league's)

"2)"

That's why Kovy was so sure to make the "I am keeping myself in shape to play to 44" comment

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So the Devils knew on Monday that the contract is rejected, yet proceeded on and were all smiles in the press conference. This means one of two things:

1) The Devils knew about the rejection, but didn't inform Kovy in the hopes that by doing the press conference, he would be more or less "tied" to our organization and any re-negotiations on the contract will be easier. (This is very bad news as it can backfire with Kovy getting pissed off and leaving)

2) The Devils AND Grossman / Kovalchuk knew about the rejection, but had no reservations with going through with it because they were confident the rejection would be thrown out in arbitration. (This is good news because for some reason I trust Lou's legal / CBA expertise over the league's)

3) Regardless of the outcome of arbitration both sides knew Kovalchuk would stay with the Devils with the original or modified contract.

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3) Regardless of the outcome of arbitration both sides knew Kovalchuk would stay with the Devils with the original or modified contract.

This seems the least likely to me, unless the Devils and Kovalchuk already have a modified "Plan B" contract ready to go. I don't see Kovalchuk agreeing to go to a press conference with a "tentative" agreement to amend the contract should arbitration fail.

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Wow, Did anyone just catch EJ Hradek on ESPN with Linda Cohn?

This couldn't of been written better out of HOLLYWOOD. The Drama unfolds

hradek_ej_55_normal.jpg EJHradek_ESPN I'll be talking about the Ilya Kovalchuk contract situation on ESPNews at approximately 6:20 pm EDT.

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Prove what? You're not telling me what I need to prove.

You're completely incorrect that the "spirit" of things doesn't come into play. "Reasonable" is all about the spirit of a thing. The league gets to rule on intent of a contract and the NHLPA is going to challenge the leagues ruling in this. An arbiter will decide who is right, but it certainly won't be based on the fact that Kovalchuk will be playing at 44, since nobody can know that either way. It will be based on if the arbiter believes the NHLPA can show that it is likely he does play or that the NHL can show that it is unlikely he would be playing then and that the contract was designed in a way with the likelihood Kovy isn't playing in mind.

The NHL doesn't have to prove it. They only have to show that it is very unlikely and that the contract was designed with this unlikelihood in mind. I think they can do that, since we all believe that to be true. What the arbiter will decide who knows.

Incorrect. If the Devils are going for the throat, the argument will be geared towards prior precedent and the guidelines of the CBA as written first and foremost.

If the NHL wants to argue he won't be playing until he is 44, they are submitting an argument where there is no way they can predict that Kovalchuk can play to "X" age, and that includes even to age 40. The NHL will NOT win an age battle considering the ages of prior contracts singed by players who will be used as a basis of comparison.

A court of law does not rule on the "spirit" of a law. If that was the case, i can name 10 things i did today that violated a "spirit" of a law or rule and so can anyone here.

731, let me ask you. Not for nothing, but is there anything you are ever incorrect about or don't have an opinion on? You seem to fancy yourself as a bit of an expert on everything and come off as extremely contradicting.

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This seems the least likely to me, unless the Devils and Kovalchuk already have a modified "Plan B" contract ready to go. I don't see Kovalchuk agreeing to go to a press conference with a "tentative" agreement to amend the contract should arbitration fail.

Why not? It seems more likely he feels he can trust in an arbiter who could make any decision he feels like or that he might know he will be able to modify the Devils deal in a way the league will find acceptable?

I've seen some arbitration cases where the arbiter makes crazy decisions that go completely against precedent, you don't want to trust an arbiter to make the right decision in anything because you just never know.

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Why not? It seems more likely he feels he can trust in an arbiter who could make any decision he feels like or that he might know he will be able to modify the Devils deal in a way the league will find acceptable?

I've seen some arbitration cases where the arbiter makes crazy decisions that go completely against precedent, you don't want to trust an arbiter to make the right decision in anything because you just never know.

case in point - the stevens: shanahan fiasco. which was a legitimate fiasco and would've had me apoplectic were i a blues fan circa 1991.

it just seems surprising that kovalchuk would sign off on this process, although i guess it would cost him at least $2 million if he loses, probably more.

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