ThreeCups

GDT: YOUR NEW JERSEY DEVILS VS NY RANGERS 12/29 7PM

220 posts in this topic

The Devils were not known as an offensive powerhouse in the 90's to say the least, but they stayed competative. This was because of both Brodeur and to a bigger extent the defense. Hell in 94 our leading socrer was Stevens, so that says a lot about our offense during that time. Now that we have pretty much no defense, Brodeur's weaknesses are showing. He is in fact old and slow, and should retire gracefully instead of subjecting himself to Marty chants from opposing fans and letting in softies. I should not go to games now and expect our goalie (even those not named Marty) to let in at least 1 soft goal a game.

Nobody (right now, at least) is disputing that Brodeur isn't who he was. But when the offense is this insanely inept, looking at the goalie is like paying attention to a bruised pinky when your arm is broken.

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mills is terrible too. mills, sestito, and gionta do not belong in the nhl, period.

Neither does Clarkson. He is TERRIBLE. And I will fight you on this til the end of time.

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The Devils were not known as an offensive powerhouse in the 90's to say the least, but they stayed competative. This was because of both Brodeur and to a bigger extent the defense. Hell in 94 our leading socrer was Stevens, so that says a lot about our offense during that time. Now that we have pretty much no defense, Brodeur's weaknesses are showing. He is in fact old and slow, and should retire gracefully instead of subjecting himself to Marty chants from opposing fans and letting in softies. I should not go to games now and expect our goalie (even those not named Marty) to let in at least 1 soft goal a game.

That '94 squad was actually quite good offensively: 306 GF (2nd in the NHL), and boasted 6 players to net 20+ goals. MacLean netted 36 and Richer 37.

As for the other 90s seasons, the Devils weren't nearly as bad on offense as you make it sound...here's where they ranked:

'93-'94 2nd out of 26 teams

'95 13th out of 26 teams

'95-'96 25th out of 26 teams (by far the worst)

'96-'97 16th out of 26 teams

'97-'98 9th out of 26 teams

'98-'99 2nd out of 27 teams

'99-'00 2nd out of 28 teams

So in three out of seven of these seasons, the Devils' offense ranked 2nd overall...in a 4th season, they were ranked in the top 10. So this whole "lack of offense" idea really is a myth.

Even the 25th-ranked offense of '95-'96 was managing to put in 2.69 GPG. Compared to this group's production, the '96 squad looks like '80s Oilers. Like I said, Marty at the very top of his game is going to have a hell of a time backstopping a team that flat-out doesn't score to many wins. Even if he managed to match his career-best regular season GAA of 1.88, that's still higher than this team's average output.

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Devils are 1-11 in december.

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Devils are 1-11 in december.

ticker tape parade down mulberry is scheduled for jan 2nd!

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But the one guy I feel sorriest for is Lou Lamoriello. For so long this guy seemed to have almost all of the answers, and I think he loved knowing that about himself...that he knew he could always prove his critics wrong, that some small move that barely got noticed when it was made (like Corey Millen for Neal Broten) would find a way to pay huge dividends. He now seems to be a shell of that guy, reduced by the moves gone wrong that made perfect sense (like Rolston...yeah, he was a risk because of his age, but he seemed to fit what the Devils needed exactly) and grabbing-at-straws moves that have gone more and more against Lou's principles. He's got to bewildered and confused by it all, and I don't blame him one bit...I'm sure more than anything he would love to fix all of this, show everyone one last time that he can still ice a winner...but for maybe the very first time since he became the Devils' GM, I don't think he has the slightest clue where to begin (and I'm not implying that I or any of us do). And something about that saddens me.

I agree.

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But the one guy I feel sorriest for is Lou Lamoriello. For so long this guy seemed to have almost all of the answers, and I think he loved knowing that about himself...that he knew he could always prove his critics wrong, that some small move that barely got noticed when it was made (like Corey Millen for Neal Broten) would find a way to pay huge dividends. He now seems to be a shell of that guy, reduced by the moves gone wrong that made perfect sense (like Rolston...yeah, he was a risk because of his age, but he seemed to fit what the Devils needed exactly) and grabbing-at-straws moves that have gone more and more against Lou's principles. He's got to bewildered and confused by it all, and I don't blame him one bit...I'm sure more than anything he would love to fix all of this, show everyone one last time that he can still ice a winner...but for maybe the very first time since he became the Devils' GM, I don't think he has the slightest clue where to begin (and I'm not implying that I or any of us do). And something about that saddens me.

It's ironic: people bitched a lot about Lou not making the big deadline moves and not signing quality UFAs. Every trade deadline it was like "You guys think they're going to announce more trades? I expected something bigger" and there was no end to moaning about losing players and replacing them with lower-caliber guys (the epic summer of 2007 when we lost Gomez and Rafalski and signed Zubrus, Rachunek and Vishnevski).

And the team always found a way to play well after these moves. Yet when Lou started doing what the fans wanted (blockbuster trade bringing an all-star forward, signing him to a huge contract, bringing a more significant and expensive D-man in Volchenkov), everything went to hell. I think a lot of us fans, myself included, don't really have the right to curse at Lou now. We thought he didn't adjust to the new NHL, that he was stuck in the old ways and that making big moves and maybe focusing more on offense was the way to go. I still think there's some truth to it (maybe big moves were required, but they always have to be the right moves at the same time), but at the same time, most of us were content after this summer and we, just like Lou probably, thought great things were coming.

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Why do you continue to stick your head in the sand and not see that Marty is costing us games now. That goal totally took the momentum away and every game now for the past year I have been expecting him to let in at least one soft goal. That is unacceptable. When he was younger I would expect a weak goal once every few games, but not every friggin game.

Yes we continue to score, but that makes every goal of ours count even more. When we take the lead, that is an instant confidence booster for this fragile group and to let a softie in less than a minute later is unacceptable and changed the momentum. Yeah we outshot them, but that was the case in the 90's when we would outshoot the other team, get only 1 or 2 goals, and then win the game. With Marty's play now, we cannot even do that. Marty needs to retire soon before he really taints his career.

You are obviously one of the mentally challenged Marty pilers-on. I have agreed that yes he is not having a good season. HOWEVER, he is in no way "costing us games". Our offense is beyond putrid, and even Patrick Roy in 1986 playoff form would be able to get wins on this squad. Do you expect him to pitch a SHUTOUT EVERY GAME??!?!? That is the only way this team can get wins. It is quite simple- when you only score 1 goal a game, your goaltender needs to be PERFECT to win. PERFECT as in SHUTOUT. You are obviously are a young fan who does not know much, and for this I do not blame you. But please do now spew these absurd, venomous anti-Marty posts because they are beyond outlandish.

Do you realize that this team team has scored 1 goal or less in 22 games (Two of them were 2-1 SO wins where the Devils were awarded a phantom goal for winning)? They're averaging 1.72 GPG...take out the phantom goals and it drops to 1.67. This is comically, laughably, insanely bad. Marty hasn't been good this year, no disputing that, but NO GOALIE ANYWHERE (even Marty playing at the top of his game) is going to be able to do much with a team that's this offensively impotent. I'd say there's plenty of other candidates costing the Devils games.

EXACTLY, but it is all Marty's fault. Maybe he needs to start scoring goals too!

Nobody (right now, at least) is disputing that Brodeur isn't who he was. But when the offense is this insanely inept, looking at the goalie is like paying attention to a bruised pinky when your arm is broken.

Bingo DiG. Marty has slowed down for sure, however he is FAR from THE problem this season....

ticker tape parade down mulberry is scheduled for jan 2nd!

Not so fast my friend, we were not awarded the #1 overall pick yet! :rofl:

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marty is not far from the problem this year, he is part of the problem. there are lots of other problems but he is one of them. last night he had a good game. many nights he has not.

Edited by Triumph

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marty is not far from the problem this year, he is part of the problem. there are lots of other problems but he is one of them. last night he had a good game. many nights he has not.

He may be part of the problem, and not one person here is claiming that he's been good this season, but this offense is as futile as it gets, and the defense hasn't much better. 22 out of 36 games this team manages a goal or less scored? DiG's broken-pinky analogy is a good one.

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marty is not far from the problem this year, he is part of the problem. there are lots of other problems but he is one of them. last night he had a good game. many nights he has not.

and even last night when he had a good game, he instantly took the wind out of the team's sails giving up that putrid goal to boyle.

the devils are offensively a joke, no doubt. doesn't change the fact that goaltending is a problem with this abortion of a team.

as far as DiG's broken pinky analogy, i think it's more like a broken arm when your pelvis is shattered. still needs treatment although it's clearly not the bigger injury.

Edited by pattyelias

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and even last night when he had a good game, he instantly took the wind out of the team's sails giving up that putrid goal to boyle.

the devils are offensively a joke, no doubt. doesn't change the fact that goaltending is a problem with this abortion of a team.

I've been hard on Brodeur all year, but there were at least four or five saves last night that were ridiculous, and a couple of them should have been goals by the Rangers. Yes, the Boyle goal hurt, but the Rangers got some ridiculously good scoring opportunities, even though the volume of scoring chances was miniscule compared to the Devils shots on goal.

I think the one thing that is clear with the goalie situation, is Lou or whoever the GM is needs to go out and find a younger netminder who can play 50% of the games next season.

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I've been hard on Brodeur all year, but there were at least four or five saves last night that were ridiculous, and a couple of them should have been goals by the Rangers. Yes, the Boyle goal hurt, but the Rangers got some ridiculously good scoring opportunities, even though the volume of scoring chances was miniscule compared to the Devils shots on goal.

I think the one thing that is clear with the goalie situation, is Lou or whoever the GM is needs to go out and find a younger netminder who can play 50% of the games next season.

Good luck in getting Marty in what could be his farewell year to sit 50% of the games next year. No freaking way would he sit that much save for a major injury.

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Arnott and Langs.....oh dear. -5 combined with 23:00 of ice time. Failed passes, missed chances, bad penalties. Lou, please get rid. Thanks!

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Good luck in getting Marty in what could be his farewell year to sit 50% of the games next year. No freaking way would he sit that much save for a major injury.

What's he going to do? He's not the coach. We pay him, he doesn't pay us.

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You are obviously one of the mentally challenged Marty pilers-on. I have agreed that yes he is not having a good season. HOWEVER, he is in no way "costing us games". Our offense is beyond putrid, and even Patrick Roy in 1986 playoff form would be able to get wins on this squad. Do you expect him to pitch a SHUTOUT EVERY GAME??!?!? That is the only way this team can get wins. It is quite simple- when you only score 1 goal a game, your goaltender needs to be PERFECT to win. PERFECT as in SHUTOUT. You are obviously are a young fan who does not know much, and for this I do not blame you. But please do now spew these absurd, venomous anti-Marty posts because they are beyond outlandish.

Yeah been a fan since my first game in 89 and been following religiously since 91 so obviously I am a young fan. Stop preaching from your high horse and see that perhaps Marty is a big contributor to the problem. He even said it himself that he doesn't see the puck as good as he used to. I do not care if he makes 50 great saves in a night, if he lets in 1 bad goal then it is squarely on him, and makes it even worse on this already fragile team. I know this board has its share of Marty lovers, but I wonder if you all will remain fans after Marty retires. Our offense sucks this year and I do acknowledge that, but again this team used to score only 1 or 2 games back in the 90's and still win. Also, yes I know back then we were in the top 5 in the league some years in goal scored, but look at how many goals total were scored back then. It was the trap, clutch-and-grab era where no one was scoring goals.

Edited by DevsMan84

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Yeah been a fan since my first game in 89 and been following religiously since 91 so obviously I am a young fan. Stop preaching from your high horse and see that perhaps Marty is a big contributor to the problem. He even said it himself that he doesn't see the puck as good as he used to. I do not care if he makes 50 great saves in a night, if he lets in 1 bad goal then it is squarely on him, and makes it even worse on this already fragile team. I know this board has its share of Marty lovers, but I wonder if you all will remain fans after Marty retires. Our offense sucks this year and I do acknowledge that, but again this team used to score only 1 or 2 games back in the 90's and still win. Also, yes I know back then we were in the top 5 in the league some years in goal scored, but look at how many goals total were scored back then. It was the trap, clutch-and-grab era where no one was scoring goals.

Marty is a SMALL part of the problem. If he lets in a bad goal and makes several ridiculous saves as he did last night you cannot put the blame on him. I will be a Marty fan forever, even after he retires. But that is not why I am defending him now. I am defending him from ignorant fools such as yourself who need a whipping boy. I would defend any goaltender in Marty's position right now. (assuming they are not THE problem, and it is clear to anyone with half a brain that he is a small part of the problem, not the entire problem) Your "we didn't score alot of goals back in the 90s" arguement holds NO water. We never scored 1.7 or whatever the figure is now goals/game. That is beyond pathetic for an NHL team.

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The team sucking isn't making Marty unable to stop very stoppable pucks. Marty stopping those stoppable pucks doesn't turn a lot of the losses into wins, but neither does the team scoring an extra goal or two a game.

A goalie with an .886 save percentage is beyond pathetic for a NHL goalie.

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The team sucking isn't making Marty unable to stop very stoppable pucks. Marty stopping those stoppable pucks doesn't turn a lot of the losses into wins, but neither does the team scoring an extra goal or two a game.

A goalie with an .886 save percentage is beyond pathetic for a NHL goalie.

Exactly and guys like ThreeCups who is an obvious Marty-lover in the Chico-esque degree will always defend him no matter what. I know and have said Marty is not the ENTIRE problem, but he is a MAJOR part of it. For the 3rd or 4th time yes the offense is terrible, but Marty is playing down to a new low. I do not deflect brodeurs terrible Save % by saying that the offense is not scoring enough. Therefore by that logic, Brodeur is allowed to have a 4.00 or higher GAA and below .900 save % if we were scoring at least 5 goals a game. Florida when they had Luongo was completely terrible (they still are pretty bad), but Luongo always had great stats. That and he faced more shots in the season than Brodeur!

Believe me there are plenty of whipping boys on this team, and Brodeur is up there along with Kelly Clarkson and our worthless captain.

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The team sucking isn't making Marty unable to stop very stoppable pucks. Marty stopping those stoppable pucks doesn't turn a lot of the losses into wins, but neither does the team scoring an extra goal or two a game.

A goalie with an .886 save percentage is beyond pathetic for a NHL goalie.

They are both part of the problem. The whole team is in peril. Marty is having a bad season, the offense can't score for sh!t, and the defense is of AHL caliber. When you put all of those ingredients together you have a recipe for the disaster that is the 2010 New Jersey Devils. But in no way, shape or form is this entirely on Marty. Put ANY goaltender in the league in front of the net for the Devils and you will see very similar results.

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Exactly and guys like ThreeCups who is an obvious Marty-lover in the Chico-esque degree will always defend him no matter what. I know and have said Marty is not the ENTIRE problem, but he is a MAJOR part of it. For the 3rd or 4th time yes the offense is terrible, but Marty is playing down to a new low. I do not deflect brodeurs terrible Save % by saying that the offense is not scoring enough. Therefore by that logic, Brodeur is allowed to have a 4.00 or higher GAA and below .900 save % if we were scoring at least 5 goals a game. Florida when they had Luongo was completely terrible (they still are pretty bad), but Luongo always had great stats. That and he faced more shots in the season than Brodeur!

Believe me there are plenty of whipping boys on this team, and Brodeur is up there along with Kelly Clarkson and our worthless captain.

No Chico homerism here. I can look at the team without bias and see that there are MANY, MANY problems going on currently. Marty is not a "MAJOR" part of it. He is a part for sure, but to say major I completely disagree with. Any goaltender in the world could have a 2.00 GAA on this current team and have a horrendous record. Why is that? BECAUSE WE CANNOT SCORE GOALS! PERIOD!

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They are both part of the problem. The whole team is in peril. Marty is having a bad season, the offense can't score for sh!t, and the defense is of AHL caliber. When you put all of those ingredients together you have a recipe for the disaster that is the 2010 New Jersey Devils. But in no way, shape or form is this entirely on Marty. Put ANY goaltender in the league in front of the net for the Devils and you will see very similar results.

I don't think I've seen anyone say it's entirely on Marty, I've seen more people say Marty shouldn't be mentioned as a problem since the rest of the team stinks. That's just my impression.

I've seen Hedberg and McKenna in front of this team and seen slightly better results from them, and that's not how it should be. Marty, like the rest of the team, seems to be fighting poor play, lack of confidence, and some poor luck. The first two he can improve on and I think he will, he just hasn't yet so he's still playing badly.

BECAUSE WE CANNOT SCORE GOALS! PERIOD!

And the goalie can't stop easy shots, those are both big problems.

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I don't think I've seen anyone say it's entirely on Marty, I've seen more people say Marty shouldn't be mentioned as a problem since the rest of the team stinks. That's just my impression.

I've seen Hedberg and McKenna in front of this team and seen slightly better results from them, and that's not how it should be. Marty, like the rest of the team, seems to be fighting poor play, lack of confidence, and some poor luck. The first two he can improve on and I think he will, he just hasn't yet so he's still playing badly.

Well it seems that people are softening their stance slightly. Not too long ago people wanted him tarred, feathered and hung from the rafters of The Rock next do Stevens' #4 and Dano's #3. I will definitely agree that Marty is contributory to the situation. However, I think he has the least amount of blood on his hands compared to the non productive offense, and minor league defensive corps.

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And the goalie can't stop easy shots, those are both big problems.

Yes it is a problem. However, it would be a much bigger problem if we were losing games 4-3, 5-4 etc and Marty was letting in softies. We score one goal a game! Come on people. How many games can you HONESTLY say that Marty has singlehandedly COST us this year? Out of all of the losses we have?

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They are both part of the problem. The whole team is in peril. Marty is having a bad season, the offense can't score for sh!t, and the defense is of AHL caliber. When you put all of those ingredients together you have a recipe for the disaster that is the 2010 New Jersey Devils. But in no way, shape or form is this entirely on Marty. Put ANY goaltender in the league in front of the net for the Devils and you will see very similar results.

Let's see how Luongo did in front of some not-too-good Florida teams when he played for them

02-03- .918 Save % and Florida ranked 27th overall

03-04- .931 Save % and Florida ranked 24th overall

05-06- .914 Save % and Florida ranked 21st overall.

So in his last 3 years in Florida, he was on a team that did not make the playoffs and was ranked in the bottom 1/3 of the league, but still managed a good to excellent save %.

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