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PeteyNice

Protests in Egypt

39 posts in this topic

This is beyond protests, this is insanity.

In the distance, riot police could be seen advancing from Tahrir. I called the news desk to report that violence was spreading; while I was on the phone the police began to charge, sending me and several hundred protestors running. A short distance away I stopped, believing it safe; a number of ordinarily dressed young men were running in my direction and I assumed them to be protestors also fleeing the police charge behind them. Yet as two of them reached me I was punched by both simultaneously and thrown to the ground, before being hauled back up by the scruff of the neck and dragged towards the police lines.

The men were burly and wore leather jackets – up close I could see they were amin dowla, plain-clothes officers from Egypt's notorious state security service. All attempts I made to tell them in Arabic and English that I was an international journalist were met with more punches and slaps; around me I could make out other isolated protestors also being hauled along, receiving the same treatment.

We were being dragged towards a security building on the edge of the square, just two streets away from my apartment, and as I approached the doorway of the building other security officers took flying kicks and punches at me. I spotted a high-ranking uniformed officer and shouted at him that I was a British journalist. He responded by walking over and punching me twice, saying in Arabic, "fvck you and fvck Britain".

This is going to get MUCH worse before it gets better.

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Yep, People are fed up with Mubarak and his dictatorial government.

- Clashes with Police

- Country wide protests

- Every governmental poster was burned or shred to pieces. (Which may look like nothing but lets just say that you usual can't express your opinion about Mubarak or the government)

- 3 Protesters and 1 police man died.

For the moment the protests are calming down a bit but it could spark again at any time (any day or even hour)

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It just continues. Mubarak dissolved the government but that is not enough for the protesters who continue to take to the streets.

American news stations have been pitiful in their coverage of this.

If you want real coverage, Al Jazeera has been great:

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

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WikiLeaks, Twitter, and Facebook are pretty powerful. The creators of them probably never imagined this...(maybe wikileaks was hoping for something like this)

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Unfortunately the Muslim Brotherhood will ultimately end up in charge. Oh well.

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Yep, unless they find "new boss, same as the old boss", and find him fast. You hear things like them turning it over to an interim government (seems like that's what's happening with the invention of this VP and such), and then maybe elections in six weeks? There's no above-ground opposition there. Yeech. In a Machiavellian sense, this could be real awful, and anything we endorse is basically turned to sh!t by the endorsement.

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If they have free and fair elections and elect a hard line Muslim government then so be it. The Egyptian people should be able to choose their own government.

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If they have free and fair elections and elect a hard line Muslim government then so be it. The Egyptian people should be able to choose their own government.

And if that's the route they go down, they deserve to get it good and hard. (That is, I'm sure a gang of theocratic troglodytes will be able to solve the country's economic woes. I mean, they're all driving Rolls Royce's in Iran).

ADDENDUM: I'll also add that Egyptian religious minorities and women who don't want to abide by a Koranic dress code might not be too thrilled with the government that the majority seeks to impose.

Edited by Daniel

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I'm not political at all, so the only thing I will say about this is that I have no sympathy for those who are rioting [not those who are remaining civil] right now. Turning this into something on par with a Lakers championship "celebration" is a disgrace to their movement, as are the reports I have heard of them breaking into museums and desecrating mummies and artifacts of their history.

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I'm not political at all, so the only thing I will say about this is that I have no sympathy for those who are rioting [not those who are remaining civil] right now. Turning this into something on par with a Lakers championship "celebration" is a disgrace to their movement, as are the reports I have heard of them breaking into museums and desecrating mummies and artifacts of their history.

Sitting at home doing nothing wasn't going to fix any of their problems.

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Sitting at home doing nothing wasn't going to fix any of their problems.

so that gives them the green light to destroy the museums and artifacts of their country's history?

protest all you want, but rioting will lose you support

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Unfortunately the Muslim Brotherhood will ultimately end up in charge. Oh well.

Look I am Egyptian and let me tell you that the Egyptian are aware of what is the Muslim Brotherhood and its the last group they want to see in charge.

Anyway, the Muslim brotherhood will never win any elections if these elections are democratic and democratic elections is the main reason the ppl are flooding the streets.

Right now the problem is that Mubarak don't want to leave and every minute he stays is a minute too much for the ppl and especially for him as people started changing their slogans from "Mubarak out" to "Hang Mubarak"

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And if that's the route they go down, they deserve to get it good and hard. (That is, I'm sure a gang of theocratic troglodytes will be able to solve the country's economic woes. I mean, they're all driving Rolls Royce's in Iran).

ADDENDUM: I'll also add that Egyptian religious minorities and women who don't want to abide by a Koranic dress code might not be too thrilled with the government that the majority seeks to impose.

I don't know why you are so sure that the people would elect a hard line Islamic government. Everything I have seen about the protests do not give me any reason to think that is the goal or that such a government would be embraced by a majority of people.

Even if it was, tourism, specifically Western tourism, is a huge part of Egypt's economy, I can't see them messing with that.

Also, keep in mind that Egypt today is not exactly friendly to minority religions. They are denied opportunity left and right.

Turning this into something on par with a Lakers championship "celebration" is a disgrace to their movement

Trivializing it by comparing to a championship celebration is more of a disgrace. These people have legitimate grievances and a government that is completely unresponsive. They were left without options and did what they had to do.

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Trivializing it by comparing to a championship celebration is more of a disgrace. These people have legitimate grievances and a government that is completely unresponsive. They were left without options and did what they had to do.

fair point by my trivialization of the event, but destroying museums and looting is not part of the way to get the legitimate grievances heard, let alone respected.

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fair point by my trivialization of the event, but destroying museums and looting is not part of the way to get the legitimate grievances heard, let alone respected.

What were you expecting ??? There is always these kinds of people in every country.Its a minority who is robbing.

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What were you expecting ??? There is always these kinds of people in every country.Its a minority who is robbing.

Not expecting anything, its just hurting the overall cause. Control those idiots, and things could easily get on the right path.

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BTW, I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who are forming human chains to protect their museums. Regardless of which side they're for, they're standing united in protecting the priceless artifacts which unite them in their heritage, culture, and overall history.

Edited by jagknife

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BTW, I have a tremendous amount of respect for those who are forming human chains to protect their museums. Regardless of which side they're for, they're standing united in protecting the priceless artifacts which unite them in their heritage, culture, and overall history. Those are the people who are going to get the change to happen.

Yeah, they are aware that these are priceless artifacts and that its very important to protect them.

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Trivializing it by comparing to a championship celebration is more of a disgrace. These people have legitimate grievances and a government that is completely unresponsive. They were left without options and did what they had to do.

I find it ironic that you selectively advocate violence when it suits your worldview.

You stated in the past that torturing one terrorist who knew where a nuclear bomb was located (in a hypothetical) in Boston was "immoral" and "unethical" "because we're better than that" and to prove your superior morality would sacrifice roughly 4 million lives, just to get your peace of mind across knowing you have better morals.

Why is it that people like you are willing to sacrifice lives in the name of morality, but of course not your own because then it's "different"

Why is it that people like you are all for being generous and donating to charity, as long as it's not your money being donated.

Why is it that people like you are all for open borders, yet you live nowhere near a border and are not affected by illegal immigrants, drug crime, crime in general. Yet if a crime involving an illegal immigrant did affect you(hopefully never-touch wood) then it's different.

After years of reading your posts, it is clear to me now where you stand. I have no problem with your opinion and respect your right to voice it.

What I don't respect is this air of moral and ethical superiority you adorn and the sneer at people who disagree with you. Your views on politics remind me of Triumph's view on hockey. I'm right, you're wrong because I'm superior to you.

I find you morally hypocritical and ethically bankrupt. Maybe you support nihilism (look it up) but only when it suits your worldview.

Tell me, what is the difference between the Egyptian populace "with legitimate grievances" that was "left with no options" in trying to reason with an "unresponsive government" and resorted to violence, and the United States populace, with legitimate grievances ( fear of being blown up, or poisoned, or shot by terrorists) that was left with no options and had to use persuasive measures to garner information to thwart further attacks on it's people because "reasoning" with Al Qaeda has been "unresponsive"

We wait for your answer with baited breath...

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Why is it that people like you are willing to sacrifice lives in the name of morality, but of course not your own because then it's "different"

Who says I am not? In your ridiculous hypothetical bomb situation, I am perfectly willing to die.

Why is it that people like you are all for being generous and donating to charity, as long as it's not your money being donated

You know nothing of how much money I donate to charity nor is it any of your business.

Why is it that people like you are all for open borders, yet you live nowhere near a border and are not affected by illegal immigrants, drug crime, crime in general. Yet if a crime involving an illegal immigrant did affect you(hopefully never-touch wood) then it's different.

Again, you are just putting words in my mouth and making things up. I do not necessarily support open borders but if you don't crack down on employers that provide the opportunity first and foremost then nothing else matters.

...

Noise and name calling. Not worth a response.

Tell me, what is the difference between the Egyptian populace "with legitimate grievances" that was "left with no options" in trying to reason with an "unresponsive government" and resorted to violence, and the United States populace, with legitimate grievances ( fear of being blown up, or poisoned, or shot by terrorists) that was left with no options and had to use persuasive measures to garner information to thwart further attacks on it's people because "reasoning" with Al Qaeda has been "unresponsive"

Really? You are comparing a popular uprising against a totalitarian regime with government sanctioned torture? I know cons are masters of the false equivalence but that is just bizarre.

IIRC, you aren't a real American so it is understandable that you can't comprehend this, but America is supposed to support democracy everywhere in the World - not just in countries where we think the people will elect someone that will support our interests. I know that we have not always followed that standard but that is no reason to abandon it now.

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America is supposed to support democracy everywhere in the World - not just in countries where we think the people will elect someone that will support our interests. I know that we have not always followed that standard but that is no reason to abandon it now.

As long as it's a democracy built to stand. The concern is that it will only be a temporary democracy where a group like the Muslim Brotherhood uses popular sentiment to establish a second dictatorship similar to Iran after their revolution. Just being a democracy for 5 minutes is not good enough.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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As long as it's a democracy built to stand. The concern is that it will only be a temporary democracy where a group like the Muslim Brotherhood uses popular sentiment to establish a second dictatorship similar to Iran after their revolution. Just being a democracy for 5 minutes is not good enough.

That is speculation based on what? Have you seen or read anything to suggest a thing is even remotely likely? Or is just the presence of a group like the Muslim Brotherhood (which is much more moderate and open than the groups that run other Arab countries)? The Iranian Revolution was based on religion. This is not.

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That is speculation based on what? Have you seen or read anything to suggest a thing is even remotely likely? Or is just the presence of a group like the Muslim Brotherhood (which is much more moderate and open than the groups that run other Arab countries)? The Iranian Revolution was based on religion. This is not.

It's just speculation based on other failed transitions to "democracy" throughout history. Iran, Russia, France, etc. Hell, Hitler was democratically elected. The Iranian revolution had democrats and students calling for modernization but they were overwhelmed by Khomeini's people and the democracy became a theocracy. Just because a democracy is established right away, doesn't mean it's built to last. A rock solid constitution is needed or else a democratically elected figure may take control and refuse to cede power.

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As long as it's a democracy built to stand. The concern is that it will only be a temporary democracy where a group like the Muslim Brotherhood uses popular sentiment to establish a second dictatorship similar to Iran after their revolution. Just being a democracy for 5 minutes is not good enough.

What you are saying would never happen if there is democratic Elections.

In a democratic election the Muslim Brotherhood is a group that would get something like 10 % to 15 % of the votes in Egypt.

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