DaneykoIsGod

Raising No. 27

156 posts in this topic

I got lost amidst the many pages on here, and thought you stated in the beginning that you did not think he was worthy. As long as you acknowledge that he is indeed worthy of such an honor then go ahead and continue the postathons dissecting his career.....

Dissecting his mind -- his MIND!! ( wow -- I dont have a maniacal smilie... ) You're still all grumpy :lol:

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I have never and will never like Scott Niedermayer. He doesn't deserve to have his number retired imo. He left for a dumbass reason and never gave 85% nevermind 100%. I can understand stand both sides. I wouldn't tell someone they were nuts for liking him nor try to change their mind about retiring his number. I have no interest and probably would skip watching any ceremon. I was one who celebrated when he left. :evil:

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Scott gave us 3 cups and some great moments when he wore a Devils jersey. I didn't like how he left here either but I'm over it.

One of my favorite Nieds moments...

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I happen to think he deserves it. Look he was a great Devil; never one of my favs but I mean sh!t he was key for us winning 3 Cups. Its hard as hell to win 1 Cup let alone 3 especially in 9 years!! The reason he left was to play with his brother I believe that. Scott and Dano werent perfect with us but we honored them. Neids deserves it plain and simple!

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Look he was a great Devil.

We were watching a different guy. The word "great" doesn't come to mind when I watched Scott Niedermayer the first 10 years of his career. Greatness eluded him. But he was pretty darn good.

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I consider Niedermayer to be the Devils second-best D-man ever and an integral part of the team's three Cups. I never thought he wasn't trying or didn't care. I just thought he was a quiet guy.

I absolutely think he deserves to have his number retired, but I wish they wouldn't rush it.

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He left for a dumbass reason...

He would either play with his brother or play for more money. Putting aside the teams involved, which reason do you think is more honorable?

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As to the above -- seriously?

If I could work with either of my sisters... on the same team... been there done that for a good 18 years day in day out.

He took the Ducks job AS I WROTE BEFORE HE SIGNED -- because he knew , he had a really REALLY strong feeling he could transfer the Devils system to Anaheim and win his brother a Cup. He made sure management would get him the personnel he required and allow him to run the show in a passive COMPLETELY CONTROLLING way.

The GM did NOT plan this all through -- it was Scott's doing OBVIOUSLY! If I hadn't seen it all before it even happened if I hadn't CALLED IT BEFORE IT HAPPENED I'd say sure it was some dear altruistic choice.

If I wanted to be near my sister for family reasons I'd have signed with Kings, Sharks -- man even Vancouver. Then I'd be close without being TOO close every effin' day with her big mouth goin at me!

It wasn't some sweet warm fuzzy it was "FINE STFU - I'll get your baby his damned Cup" to Carol.

And of course he succeeded. and of course I knew he would.

and of course he NEVER stepped up for the Devils like that. In a way maybe that's a good thing -- Lou can't hold a candle to the understated furor that is Carol <_<

I just dont like him - it's just not REAL -- he's mock sentimental. He has no real depth of feeling. It looks like he does but it's just not there. and I can tell! I CAN :noclue: It's doesn't have to be a priority for anyone else -- it is, in fact, an unreasonable priority I have always agreed. but it doesn't stop me from feeling how I feel. And no -- it shouldn't stop him from getting all his accolades.

I'd have preferred he not get the Norris for that particular season -- and I do not think that was something he pushed for. I think he'd have been fine to not get it either -- because he knows what I know and honestly -- he tries as best as he is able to be honest. It all just goes THAT DEEPLY for him. and it just leaves me cold.

Edited by Pepperkorn

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and of course he NEVER stepped up for the Devils like that. In a way maybe that's a good thing -- Lou can't hold a candle to the understated furor that is Carol <_<

Just to clarify ... in what way did ne never step up for the Devils?

He should have won the Smythe in '03, so his play stepped up when we needed it. If you mean he never stepped up in the sense that he didn't dictate to Lou how to run the organization in order to win the way you believe he did in Anaheim, well ... yeah. Lou doesn't take orders, he gives 'em.

Case in point, gripes about Nieds' attitude/demeanor are about as old as gripes about his misuse by management and various "system" coaches. It's possible that the latter caused the former. It reminds me of the old drummer story with Dano, where he asked for more time on the PP and Lou told him "Kenny, you're a drummer. If you wanna play violin, I'll find a team that needs a violinist." Except Nieds was a violinist who was asked to bang the drum for much of his time here.

As much as, like Jerry said, this jersey retirement could be in part for his post-Jersey accomplishments, it could also be a form of making amends from Lou for asking him to be a drummer for so long. :noclue:

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I have never enjoyed Pepperkorn's posts as much as I have in this thread. Way to go, PK!

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Just to clarify ... in what way did ne never step up for the Devils?

He should have won the Smythe in '03.

I agree with that. Niedermayer was great that whole playoffs.

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As to the above -- seriously?

If I could work with either of my sisters... on the same team... been there done that for a good 18 years day in day out.

He took the Ducks job AS I WROTE BEFORE HE SIGNED -- because he knew , he had a really REALLY strong feeling he could transfer the Devils system to Anaheim and win his brother a Cup. He made sure management would get him the personnel he required and allow him to run the show in a passive COMPLETELY CONTROLLING way.

The GM did NOT plan this all through -- it was Scott's doing OBVIOUSLY! If I hadn't seen it all before it even happened if I hadn't CALLED IT BEFORE IT HAPPENED I'd say sure it was some dear altruistic choice.

Eh I still don't think that's a dumb reason for leaving.

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Just to clarify ... in what way did ne never step up for the Devils?

He should have won the Smythe in '03, so his play stepped up when we needed it. If you mean he never stepped up in the sense that he didn't dictate to Lou how to run the organization in order to win the way you believe he did in Anaheim, well ... yeah. Lou doesn't take orders, he gives 'em.

Case in point, gripes about Nieds' attitude/demeanor are about as old as gripes about his misuse by management and various "system" coaches. It's possible that the latter caused the former. It reminds me of the old drummer story with Dano, where he asked for more time on the PP and Lou told him "Kenny, you're a drummer. If you wanna play violin, I'll find a team that needs a violinist." Except Nieds was a violinist who was asked to bang the drum for much of his time here.

As much as, like Jerry said, this jersey retirement could be in part for his post-Jersey accomplishments, it could also be a form of making amends from Lou for asking him to be a drummer for so long. :noclue:

Well... I suppose one could say that Lou never allowed him to step up for the Devils. I'd accept that justification. I'm certain Niedermayer would use it.

He got the call in 2004 - maybe he was just scared. He always likes to present himself as nervous, scared -- he stepped up 2003 - but the issue was more than just the Devils needing him. But I can see that fiction as well as I can see my own.

So I can accept your fiction for him. but you won't see mine. Works for me :evil:

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Well... I suppose one could say that Lou never allowed him to step up for the Devils. I'd accept that justification. I'm certain Niedermayer would use it.

He got the call in 2004 - maybe he was just scared. He always likes to present himself as nervous, scared -- he stepped up 2003 - but the issue was more than just the Devils needing him. But I can see that fiction as well as I can see my own.

So I can accept your fiction for him. but you won't see mine. Works for me :evil:

The fact that we're able to call both our versions "fiction" makes them both work for me. :D

When it comes to deciphering his attitude, demeanor, logic for leaving, etc., fiction is all we have. The non-fiction part is that Niedermayer was one of the best defensemen of a generation and he did most of his playing and winning in a Devils uniform. Hopefully that's enough for the fans in attendance on Nieds Night to cheer instead of boo because their own fiction isn't very favorable.

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When it comes to deciphering his attitude, demeanor, logic for leaving, etc., fiction is all we have. The non-fiction part is that Niedermayer was one of the best defensemen of a generation and he did most of his playing and winning in a Devils uniform. Hopefully that's enough for the fans in attendance on Nieds Night to cheer instead of boo because their own fiction isn't very favorable.

But he still NEVER won didly without a BETTER defenseman on his team with him..... that too is telling and legit knock on his career also.... it also seems to get forgotten too

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But he still NEVER won didly without a BETTER defenseman on his team with him..... that too is telling and legit knock on his career also.... it also seems to get forgotten too

So you really think in 10 years from now Chris Pronger will be regarded as a better defenseman than Scotty Nieds?

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But he still NEVER won didly without a BETTER defenseman on his team with him..... that too is telling and legit knock on his career also.... it also seems to get forgotten too

Dangerous statement to make, considering how much winning Nieds has done throughout his hockey career (4 Stanley Cups, 2 Olympic golds, 1 World Championship gold, 1 World Cup gold, 1 World Cup silver, 1 World Junior Championship gold, 1 Memorial Cup).

The other defensemen on Canada's gold-winning 2004 World Cup of Hockey roster:

Eric Brewer

Adam Foote

Ed Jovanovski

Wade Redden

Robyn Regehr

Scott Hannan

Jay Buowmeester

The other defensemen on Canada's gold-winning 2004 World Championship roster:

Jay Bouwmeester

Eric Brewer

Willie Mitchell

Derek Morris

Nick Schultz

Steve Staios

The other defensemen on Canada's gold-winning 1991 World Junior Championship roster:

Patrice Brisebois

Karl Dykhuis

David Harlock

Jason Marshall

John Slaney

Chris Snell

The other defensemen on the Kamloops Blazers 1989-90 Memorial Cup-winning roster:

Darryl Sydor

Murray Duval

Joey Mittelsteadt

Dean Malkoc

Craig Bonner

Steven Yule

Joel Dyck

Shea Esselmont

Todd Harris

Of course, you're probably talking about his Cups and Olympic golds coming alongside Stevens or Pronger. Pronger vs Niedermayer is a debate that could go either way (I'd definitely say Nieds). Some pundits might also argue Nieds was better all-around than Stevens (though I wouldn't). He also got his Norris in the year Stevens was gone for most of the season, but you're probably talking more about team achievement than personal awards.

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But he still NEVER won didly without a BETTER defenseman on his team with him..... that too is telling and legit knock on his career also.... it also seems to get forgotten too

by the same token, scott stevens never won jack without another great defenseman on his team

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So you really think in 10 years from now Chris Pronger will be regarded as a better defenseman than Scotty Nieds?

I think he would if not for his reputation for being thuggish, he CARRIED an Oilers team to a SCF, and when he got traded that team went right to last place, he goes to Anaheim... gee they win a Cup.... comes to Phily.... SC Finals again.... this level of success is not a coincidence.... did it take him longer to grow into that kinda player? Yeah.... same can be said for Scott Stevens.....

Pronger also would have been the Conn Smythe when the Ducks run if he didn't get suspended in the Detroit series.....

It all depends on what you like in your D-man, you like toughness and fear factor....or do you like skill and finesse?

Of course, you're probably talking about his Cups and Olympic golds coming alongside Stevens or Pronger. Pronger vs Niedermayer is a debate that could go either way (I'd definitely say Nieds). Some pundits might also argue Nieds was better all-around than Stevens (though I wouldn't). He also got his Norris in the year Stevens was gone for most of the season, but you're probably talking more about team achievement than personal awards.

Your right, the World Championships are a consolation tournament, like the NIT of hockey.... by even playing there you didn't reach your goals for the season.... kinda the same thing on a juniors level.... we don't talk about Kevin Dean leading the Rats to a Calder Cup do we??

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by the same token, scott stevens never won jack without another great defenseman on his team

Stevens certainly couldn't finish -- even WITH a HoF defender (Murphy or MacInnis)

which in a way kind of speaks to a need for a true leader to get out from under another true leader.

Both Nieds and Stevens needed to have their own team I guess... :noclue:

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Crasher -- that's why I give Nieds extra credit for the Ducks cup. I honestly think that was Nieds call. Knowing your limitations and having strong back-up is a good thing.

I;m telling you... if Nieds weren't such a pvssy he's the only man to fill Lou's shoes. But he's a WIMP He'd wuss out and cave and act all help;ess because he CAN'T SUCK IT UP! It all must be perfect perfect perfect or he'll QUIT! :rant:

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Your right, the World Championships are a consolation tournament, like the NIT of hockey.... by even playing there you didn't reach your goals for the season.... kinda the same thing on a juniors level.... we don't talk about Kevin Dean leading the Rats to a Calder Cup do we??

You said he "NEVER won diddly without a BETTER defenseman on his team." I just showed that that statement is false.

(And FWIW, the Canadian Press said Nieds is "the only player in hockey history to have won the six major championships for Canadian players: Stanley Cup, Memorial Cup, world junior gold, IIHF World Championship gold, Olympic gold, and a World Cup of Hockey title." I don't see the words "consolation prize" anywhere. :whistling::evil: )

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I think he would if not for his reputation for being thuggish, he CARRIED an Oilers team to a SCF, and when he got traded that team went right to last place, he goes to Anaheim... gee they win a Cup.... comes to Phily.... SC Finals again.... this level of success is not a coincidence.... did it take him longer to grow into that kinda player? Yeah.... same can be said for Scott Stevens.....

Pronger also would have been the Conn Smythe when the Ducks run if he didn't get suspended in the Detroit series.....

It all depends on what you like in your D-man, you like toughness and fear factor....or do you like skill and finesse?

Pronger's made the playoffs the last 14 years in a row, and this year will be 15. Try to find me players who've made the playoffs 15 years and haven't had a few deep runs. Before the lockout he was considered a failure. Pronger's a great player, there's no doubt, but you can't take away Niedermayer's accomplishments just because he never really had a chance to shine without another great d man around.

I'm not a Niedermayer fan by any stretch, and I don't exactly agree with his jersey retirement, but let's be reasonable here.

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