DaneykoIsGod

Raising No. 27

156 posts in this topic

I consider Niedermayer to be the Devils second-best D-man ever and an integral part of the team's three Cups.

There is no question in my mind about this. He was a vital player for the Devils and he was one of the best defensemen the team has ever had ... probably No. 2, like you say.

I just can't make the jump to jersey retirement. That's a whole other level of greatness, and he didn't quite make it there IMO. But I've always been a hardass about this honor. I was against Daneyko getting it. In my little world, I wanted two jerseys and two jerseys only hanging from the rafters.

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Crasher -- that's why I give Nieds extra credit for the Ducks cup. I honestly think that was Nieds call. Knowing your limitations and having strong back-up is a good thing.

I'd like to know how he knew a year later Chris Pronger's wife was gonna want out of Edmonton.... that's some SERIOUS psychic power.....

without Pronger it's HIGHLY debatable if the Ducks then were much better then the Devils when he went there....

You said he "NEVER won diddly without a BETTER defenseman on his team." I just showed that that statement is false.

(And FWIW, the Canadian Press said Nieds is "the only player in hockey history to have won the six major championships for Canadian players: Stanley Cup, Memorial Cup, world junior gold, IIHF World Championship gold, Olympic gold, and a World Cup of Hockey title." I don't see the words "consolation prize" anywhere. :whistling::evil: )

Sorry I left out "in the NHL" because it was all I was concerned about and all that mattered in the arguement

You tell me the player that his life dream is to win the IIHF World Championship and I'll take it back... until then it's winning the NIT, whoopdie damn do!

Pronger's made the playoffs the last 14 years in a row, and this year will be 15. Try to find me players who've made the playoffs 15 years and haven't had a few deep runs. Before the lockout he was considered a failure. Pronger's a great player, there's no doubt, but you can't take away Niedermayer's accomplishments just because he never really had a chance to shine without another great d man around.

I'm not a Niedermayer fan by any stretch, and I don't exactly agree with his jersey retirement, but let's be reasonable here.

He had one year in NJ and one year in Anaheim to "shine" as the lone guy on the team... didn't work too well either time....

And you tell me how many of those guys who make the playoffs all those years in a row (and maybe having a guy like Pronger who plays half the games in order to get those teams INTO the playoffs is WHY they got into the playoffs 15 years in a row), who took a team on his back like he did with Edmonton in the SCF run? And then the next year would have won a Conn Smythe minus a few stupid elbows in the Red Wing series??

Don't get me wrong I don't love Pronger either (though I did wish we had traded for him).... but I think he's better then Niedermayer

I'm not even going into the decade of under-achieving he had in New Jersey either......(Pronger and Stevens had similiar issues early in their career)

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I'd like to know how he knew a year later Chris Pronger's wife was gonna want out of Edmonton.... that's some SERIOUS psychic power.....

without Pronger it's HIGHLY debatable if the Ducks then were much better then the Devils when he went there....

He's evil I tell you --- EEEEEeeeevil!

Seriously - there are always rumors around the league! Gossip especially about wives and stuff! and he's got two double agents in his wife AND his brother's. Also -- he's just looking for that cog and maybe it's luck Pronger was available and Ducks are in hip/safe land in Orange County.... no doubt things fell into place but all those flippin' "it juuust might work" plans are BULLsh!t well timed well considered perfectly thought out plans. and Neids had a BIG FAT HAND in the the COMPLETE success of the Ducks. Notice how he folded like a wanker after he achieved the goal <_< It wasn't a personal priority anymore -- just his job. It's the same lack of honest commitment from the guy -- it's sporadic and he can't be trusted long term. and it sucks :evilcry:

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Sorry I left out "in the NHL" because it was all I was concerned about and all that mattered in the arguement

Fair enough. But if your argument is that he never won in the NHL without Stevens or Pronger, then you're talking about two out of his 17 years in the league. Everyone has two years where they don't win it all. Even Ken Dryden.

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He had one year in NJ and one year in Anaheim to "shine" as the lone guy on the team... didn't work too well either time....

And you tell me how many of those guys who make the playoffs all those years in a row (and maybe having a guy like Pronger who plays half the games in order to get those teams INTO the playoffs is WHY they got into the playoffs 15 years in a row), who took a team on his back like he did with Edmonton in the SCF run? And then the next year would have won a Conn Smythe minus a few stupid elbows in the Red Wing series??

two years is nothing.

the edmonton oilers were one of the luckiest stanley cup finalists in recent memory. they were severely outchanced in every series, by every reasonable oiler's fan account i read. i know it's impossible as a devils fan to believe that teams actually get lucky in the playoffs, but they do. pronger was a rock that series, but the oil got outshot by 100 through the whole playoffs.

niedermayer was probably the front-runner for the conn smythe in 2003. i do like that you bring up theoretical awards though - i mean, c'mon.

Edited by Triumph

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He would either play with his brother or play for more money. Putting aside the teams involved, which reason do you think is more honorable?

They are both dishonorable however the latter is more common. Bobby Holik??? Scott Gomez???

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There is no question in my mind about this. He was a vital player for the Devils and he was one of the best defensemen the team has ever had ... probably No. 2, like you say.

I just can't make the jump to jersey retirement. That's a whole other level of greatness, and he didn't quite make it there IMO. But I've always been a hardass about this honor. I was against Daneyko getting it. In my little world, I wanted two jerseys and two jerseys only hanging from the rafters.

Against Dano's jersey being retired?!?!?!?!? Now I've heard it alllllllllllllllll.....

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They are both dishonorable however the latter is more common. Bobby Holik??? Scott Gomez???

Why is it dishonorable to take less money to play with your brother? What are some reasons for signing with a team that you consider honorable?

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Why is it dishonorable to take less money to play with your brother? What are some reasons for signing with a team that you consider honorable?

I don't recall if he took less money to play with his brother. I want to play with my brother is really silly imo. Yeah, working with family isn't always the best thing to do. I would never, ever work with family and I have learned never to work for a friend either. Pleasure and business are best kept separate.

Signing with another team after a contract expires and not saying anything prior is honorable. As soon as 'my current team is top of the list' then signing with another team at 12:01 AM on July 1 isn't honorable. Lying is not honorable. Keep your mouth shut if you have no intention of doing what you say. There is a lack of professionalism in sports when it comes to money. Hockey is the least offending sport.

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I don't recall if he took less money to play with his brother. I want to play with my brother is really silly imo. Yeah, working with family isn't always the best thing to do. I would never, ever work with family and I have learned never to work for a friend either. Pleasure and business are best kept separate.

Signing with another team after a contract expires and not saying anything prior is honorable. As soon as 'my current team is top of the list' then signing with another team at 12:01 AM on July 1 isn't honorable. Lying is not honorable. Keep your mouth shut if you have no intention of doing what you say. There is a lack of professionalism in sports when it comes to money. Hockey is the least offending sport.

First of all, a professional hockey player probably isn't all that similar to any occupation you or anyone here has had. Obviously it is still a job, but playing on the same hockey team as your brother isn't the same as working at the same office as your brother so the whole working with family thing goes right out the window in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure he did take less money, I don't have a source to back it up right now but I'm fairly confident that was the case just based on memory.

I'm not sure what you're talking about in the second paragraph. He signed three days after free agency started, so he didn't really take all that long, but I think it's unfair to say he lied.

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First of all, a professional hockey player probably isn't all that similar to any occupation you or anyone here has had. Obviously it is still a job, but playing on the same hockey team as your brother isn't the same as working at the same office as your brother so the whole working with family thing goes right out the window in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure he did take less money, I don't have a source to back it up right now but I'm fairly confident that was the case just based on memory.

I'm not sure what you're talking about in the second paragraph. He signed three days after free agency started, so he didn't really take all that long, but I think it's unfair to say he lied.

the devils offered him a max contract. the ducks offered significantly less than that.

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Philly was a bit of a lucky situation, too. they got a great draw in the first round, like when we got thrown the corpse of the Rangers coming out of the lockout, they got out from a 3-0 series lead *and* a 3-0 deficit in Game 7 in the second round (jesus, I don't even think we could blow that), somehow get the 8 seed and the only team they have home ice on in the entire playoffs, in the 3rd round, and then their goaltending luck ran out at a most inopportune time.

what they are doing this season is impressive, what they did last season was dumb luck. if you're in a skills competition with a playoff spot on the line, you must have done *something* wrong somewhere along the line.

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In the summer of '13, he'll be elected into the HHOF and then inducted in November '13, so IMO his jersey does not need to be raised before the induction.

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In the summer of '13, he'll be elected into the HHOF and then inducted in November '13, so IMO his jersey does not need to be raised before the induction.

What is the correlation between jersey retirement and HHOF enshrinement?

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I'd say (though I know you didnt ask me) it's just a clear bench mark of appropriate timing.

WHile it hasn't been very fashionable in the last half of the 20th century nor in the first fourth of the 21st century - propriety isn't something our forefather made up to be a pain in our ass. Sometimes when you rush through things ceremonies and the people they are meant to honor - are not given the appropriate attention. It's like eating ice cream before dinner. You're hungry so you dont enjoy it as much -- and then when dessert time rolls around you've got nothing. The whole experience ends up rather dissatisfying because you rushed to get to the good part before it was really time.

Edited by Pepperkorn

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FWIW, I emailed the Devils (mgmt@newjerseydevils.com) about this topic this morning and received two prompt responses within 20 minutes, one from Chris Modrzynski and one from Rich Krezwick.

My name has been changed to protect the guilty. :evil:

Dear Devils Management,

Trusted Devils' beat reporter Tom Gulitti made mention recently that it appears plans are in the works to retire Scott Niedermayer's No. 27 in the near future, possibly as soon as this season. I just want to make known, in case it wasn't already, what the general train of thought is among the fans about this.

Personally, I'm in the boat that believes Niedermayer fully deserves the honor. Simply put, he was one of the best defensemen of an entire generation and was an integral part of bringing the Stanley Cup to New Jersey three times. (Plus, he really should have been awarded the Conn Smythe in 2003, but that's another story.)

Unfortunately, there is a rift among fans on this topic. There is a very large number who don't believe he is deserving. Though each fan has his/her own reasons, the general feeling is due mostly to the wound from his departure still being too fresh. Many felt betrayed and let down by someone we had hoped would assume the torch passed from Scott Stevens.

Devils fans, as I'm sure you are well aware, are a group unafraid to vocalize their opinions. I fear that if Niedermayer was to receive this honor this season, there may be a portion of the fanbase booing at the ceremony. Niedermayer deserves better than that.

It is for this reason that I humbly emplore you to reconsider holding this ceremony at such a near date. The passage of time has already allowed some of these wounds to heal. I myself used to be in the boat that thought Niedermayer had let this team down and didn't deserve to be immortalized alongside Stevens, Ken Daneyko and, eventually, Martin Brodeur. With time, however, the good memories outweighed any perceived slight against the organization or fans that I may have held. But many fans still need more time.

I look forward to one day seeing the number 27 and that familiarly long nameplate reading NIEDERMAYER proudly hanging from the same rafters at the Rock where the three Stanley Cup banners he helped raise currently reside. I just hope that, on the day he receives this well-earned honor, the fans will have been given enough time give him the enthusiastic ovation he deserves.

Thank you for your time,

ManBearPig

Dear ManBear,

Thank you for your recent e-mail. We appreciate your comments about Scott Niedermayer, and mostly your support of the New Jersey Devils. Your note has been forwarded to Mr. Lamoriello.

Best regards,

Chris

Dear Mr. BearPig,

Thank you for taking the time to write and for your valuable insight. We completely enjoy hearing from every fan and take every comment to heart. Thank you again and hope to see you at a game again soon.

Thanks,

RICH

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Thanks PK. Yes, I think its best to wait until he is "in" the HHOF (so they can raise it in October, or better yet, to wait for after the induction ceremony in November)

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What is the correlation between jersey retirement and HHOF enshrinement?

IMO, its kinda cooler to announce that he "is" a member of the HHOF when they are having a ceremony to raise the jersey, instead of raising it before June '13.

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First of all, a professional hockey player probably isn't all that similar to any occupation you or anyone here has had. Obviously it is still a job, but playing on the same hockey team as your brother isn't the same as working at the same office as your brother so the whole working with family thing goes right out the window in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure he did take less money, I don't have a source to back it up right now but I'm fairly confident that was the case just based on memory.

I'm not sure what you're talking about in the second paragraph. He signed three days after free agency started, so he didn't really take all that long, but I think it's unfair to say he lied.

You asked for an honorable example and I took it as a generic example and I gave you one. It has nothing to do with Scott N at this point tho I will say this. Any player that says "my current teams is number on my list and then signs immediately with another team, i.e.Holik, is a LHRB. IMO Scott N had no intentions of re-signing with NJ unless his brother was signed to the Devils. He always wanted to play with his brother? Sorry but I don't care about type of occupation, in my opinion working with family is a bad idea.

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FWIW, I emailed the Devils (mgmt@newjerseydevils.com) about this topic this morning and received two prompt responses within 20 minutes, one from Chris Modrzynski and one from Rich Krezwick.

My name has been changed to protect the guilty. :evil:

I know I have said I don't "Like" the guy but I certainly never have and would never boo him...where do you get that fans would boo him if/when they raise his jersey? I know people have said they are against it, or that they wouldn't buy a ticket to see it, but have I missed people saying they would boo him? I think those are two seperate things entirely?

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I know I have said I don't "Like" the guy but I certainly never have and would never boo him...where do you get that fans would boo him if/when they raise his jersey? I know people have said they are against it, or that they wouldn't buy a ticket to see it, but have I missed people saying they would boo him? I think those are two seperate things entirely?

Booing Nieds comes up every time the subject of retiring his number is discussed. It's mentioned a few times in this thread too. Not so much saying that they'd boo, but being afraid that someone else might. Given how strongly some oppose the retirement, and given that this is the same fanbase that had some loonies who booed fan-favorites like Gionta and Madden, I don't think it's an unsubstantiated fear. I'd love to be wrong, though.

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Look he helped us get 3 Stanley Cups in 9 years; 3 Stanley Cup Finals in 4 years winning 2 Cups. He should of won the Smythe Trophy in 03. Won the Norris Trophy in 04.

Now in 05 he left to play with his bro and took less money. It wasn't like he left for THE money. Wanting to go play with his brother was evident when he let Rob take the first lap around the ice with the Cup instead of him! Now granted he had two of his best years points wise in Anaheim culminating in his 2nd year winning the cup. After that he couldn't decide if he wanted to retire or not and never put up the same numbers again. So what the Ducks got two really good years and won a Cup; you can't compare that to his body of work in New Jersey. 2 great years and 1 Cup < 12 great years and 3 Cups in four attempts!! Who's to say that if he had stayed here that we would of won another Cup; you can't say that with a matter of certainty.

To the people that say wait till he gets in the HHOF to retire it; umm correct me if I'm wrong didn't we retire Stevens number at the Meadowlands in 06 and he wasn't in the HHOF yet. We had a ceremony for him in 07 at the Rock for his induction into the HHOF; I should know I was there, the game was against the Caps, and I got the poster from the night.

What does he owe us huh?? He helped get us 3 fvckIN CUPS!! He doesn't owe us anything; he was a grown man and made he decision that he accomplished great things here in Jersey and wanted to leave to play with his bro and ultimately winning a cup with him. There is nothing wrong with that!! I'm sorry maybe I'm just more forgiving but I think his entire body of work with the Devils makes him more than qualified for this honor.

P.S. He is the only Canadian player to win every major North American and international championship in his career; he has won the Memorial Cup, World Junior Championship gold, IIHF World Championship gold, two Olympic gold medals, four Stanley Cups and the World Cup.

Cmon the guy is more than deserving of this honor!!!

Edited by ChilltownDevs2673

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