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lucifer91

Hedberg to start Friday vs. Tampa Bay.

45 posts in this topic

I don't think he should be playing that many games, but neither should Moose. they need to ride the hot hand to a point, but playing him into the ground isn't the answer as much as playing Marty into the ground isn't, especially since Moose is not the better goalie of the two.

they need to get to a platoon ASAP. like I said, the answer to a Moose bad game isn't playing Marty 18 times in a row either. the longer they sit one or the other, the more likely it is one will be run into the ground and the other will be a total rustbucket.

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The Devils posted their best win/lose record in team history for the month of January under Clemmensen. Brodeur came back at the end of February, and the focus went from: *TEAM to *552. If you don't think Clemmer's treatment rubbed people the wrong way on that team, you're kidding yourself.

And the team won like nine of ten or something like that when Brodeur came back...it wasn't rubbing people the wrong way during 552 when the focus WAS all on Marty. It was only after it that the decline started, at first they had nothing else to play for but when they did start to get in a slump Sutter responded by coaching scared the rest of the season. The checking line didn't really exist during the Clemmensen run and it was brought back in force on the eve of the playoffs.

And it's funny how you say Marty was never a health freak, maybe that's true but he had amazing durability till 2008 and even last year played 70+ games at a high level, no small feat for a 37-year old. I do find it ironic that some of the same people that were worried about running Marty into the ground (and I was in that group) aren't worried about doing the same to a 38-year old Hedberg. Even if Hedberg continues to win Marty'll have to play at SOME point.

Go back from the 2006-2007 season till now. Check the stats since then, and see for yourself.

.570 winning percentage for Brodeur, over the last 4 seasons.

.573 winning percentage for the backups, over the last 4 seasons.

And I'm sure none of that has to do with the fact Brodeur was playing the majority of the games early in the season when we had the worst coach in the history of the NHL and everyone was playing far below potential. Hedberg couldn't win then either, other than that one week (without Langs lol) in late November. Or that he got hurt now just when he and the Devils were both starting to roll again.

I love how he's handling this with all class (as usual) and yet people are still ripping on him, guess the rap on this board being anti-Marty is true. When he got benched in January all you heard then was he didn't want to play when he was again being classy about sitting. Now that we're playing well and it's still the case not a peep about that.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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And the team won like nine of ten or something like that when Brodeur came back...it wasn't rubbing people the wrong way during 552 when the focus WAS all on Marty. It was only after it that the decline started, at first they had nothing else to play for but when they did start to get in a slump Sutter responded by coaching scared the rest of the season. The checking line didn't really exist during the Clemmensen run and it was brought back in force on the eve of the playoffs.

And it's funny how you say Marty was never a health freak, maybe that's true but he had amazing durability till 2008 and even last year played 70+ games at a high level, no small feat for a 37-year old. I do find it ironic that some of the same people that were worried about running Marty into the ground (and I was in that group) aren't worried about doing the same to a 38-year old Hedberg. Even if Hedberg continues to win Marty'll have to play at SOME point.

And I'm sure none of that has to do with the fact Brodeur was playing the majority of the games early in the season when we had the worst coach in the history of the NHL and everyone was playing far below potential. Hedberg couldn't win then either, other than that one week (without Langs lol) in late November.

I love how he's handling this with all class (as usual) and yet people are still ripping on him, guess the rap on this board is true.

What other recourse can he choose? Stomp his feet, and scream how he should start?! :giggle:

He congratulated Hedberg.. said he's playing great.. and how it's good for the team. :noclue: If you want to pin a medal on him for stating the obvious, go right ahead.

Here's the thing though... I never "ripped Brodeur" for anything! I said: "imo, he's gradually declined since 35." and "Moose gives us just as good a chance in net." But I guess that's Lucifer's Dogs banter around here. :rolleyes:

..nah, you're right though bro. I agree with you. Marty doesn't age. It's simply coaching that's at fault here.

If it wasn't for Brent coaching scared, and damn J'Mac.. the worst coach in the history of the NHL.. he'd be lights out again. His 3.46 GAA, and that whopping 1 more win Brodeur has this season under Lemaire, makes all the difference. :thumbsup:

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martys gaa is 2.74 not 3.46

UNDER LEMAIRE!

Hasan said Brodeur's downfall started in 2008.. but seemed to blame other people (namely the coaches) wihtout ever acknowledging the obvious. Brodeur is declining for the same reason anyone who leaves their prime does... He's getting older! Which is really all I ever said. :noclue:

My point was that under Jacques, Marty got 8 wins, 7 losses.. and a 3.46 GAA.

..but wait, let me guess!! That's not on him either. That was the Langs\Lemaire era.. right? :P

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Here's the thing though... I never "ripped Brodeur" for anything! I said: "imo, he's gradually declined since 35." and "Moose gives us just as good a chance in net." But I guess that's Lucifer's Dogs banter around here.

It's not just you and it's not just LucifersDog, or CRASHER, that's what annoys me about this board sometimes.

My only point in bringing up how he was handling the benching was he was getting ripped for being maganimous about getting benched earlier cause people thought he just wanted to escape a bad situation. Now that he's acting the same way in a good situation not a peep. He can't win with some around here.

And I'd like every goalie to decline with numbers like Brodeur had last year. Brodeur's 'decline' is mostly that he's been more brittle since 2008. If there's been a decline in his actual play it's started this year, not four years ago.

My point was that under Jacques, Marty got 8 wins, 7 losses.. and a 3.46 GAA.

And most of those losses were when the team was still suffering from Mac hangover. They didn't start pulling out of it until that comeback against Tampa in early January.

..but wait, let me guess!! That's not on him either. That was the Langs\Lemaire era.. right?

Well that was the other part of the cleansing that needed to happen.

Heck, I was guilty of thinking Brodeur was declining in the first half too (or at least disinterested with all the losing going on) but it's becoming so obvious that the first half was so far out of the norm for EVERYone you really can't take it into account to assess anything other than Mac was ridiculously terrible. Unless you think Kovalchuk, Elias, Zajac, etc were also declining in the first half :P

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Yes, Scott Clemmensen would have won us the Cup or even round 1 against Carolina. And Brodeur at is declining but 38 year old Hedberg is not.

It's ridiculous how a 40 game sample from Clemmensen trumps all. He HAD to be sent down. He was an emergency call up, which meant when the person he replaced was back, he HAD to be returned.

Hedberg is the hot hand now and should be playing, but Hedberg has been a career backup for a reason. He can't maintain this for another 6 weeks.

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I wouldn't mind if every goalie 'declined' like Hedberg either since he's had two of the best seasons of his career at 37 and 38.

And fwiw, Beezer and Corey Schwab had a good percentage backing up Marty from '01-04 as well, so I guess the fact their winning percentage was better also suggest Marty was declining while he was winning a Cup.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Yes, Scott Clemmensen would have won us the Cup or even round 1 against Carolina. And Brodeur at is declining but 38 year old Hedberg is not.

It's ridiculous how a 40 game sample from Clemmensen trumps all. He HAD to be sent down. He was an emergency call up, which meant when the person he replaced was back, he HAD to be returned.

Hedberg is the hot hand now and should be playing, but Hedberg has been a career backup for a reason. He can't maintain this for another 6 weeks.

Just silly conjecture, to say someone can or can't do something in the coming 6 weeks or whatever amount of time you feel in your own head. I believe in Hedberg, and for however long his run lasts, I don't know. But, that's nice to know that.. should Brodeur suffer a season ending injury throughout the remaining 20 some odd games left in the season.. you've already thrown in the towel. :rock:

Furthermore.. it's extremely ignorant to look at a players age and age alone, in determining their ability. Lou Lamoriello himself has (multiple times) said; "age is just a number" -&- how there are "times when a player can play much younger, than his actual age." What.. you just throw wear and tear out the window here? :huh: Brodeur has played 1,100+ career games, next to Moose's 300. :giggle:

Moose is more fresh THIS SEASON, not because he's a year younger.. but because Moose has started 13 less this season. Hedberg would have to play 10 more games, to have more GP'd than Brodeur this year. Couple that with mileage over a career.. yeah there kinda is a difference here between 37 & 38.

I NEVER said Clemmensen would have "won us a cup" nor did I say "the Devils would have beaten Carolina, by benching Brodeur." Though this topic continues to be deformed in feeble attempts at putting words in my mouth.. let me AGAIN reiterate my stance. Brodeur is in the twilight of his career and (given the stats of the "backup" goalies that have played for us over the last 4 seasons) I feel we have just as good a chance at winning games with Hedberg in goal, going forward.

And fwiw, Beezer and Corey Schwab had a good percentage backing up Marty from '01-04 as well, so I guess the fact their winning percentage was better also suggest Marty was declining while he was winning a Cup.

No no, you're right. Brodeur's "Mr. Softy" image since 35, has less to do with age, and more to do with...

-Sutter's Scared: *The influx of the "checking line" in 2009. (a disadvantage Clemmensen never had)

-The TEAM failed me: *An obstacle that came Brodeur's way, when the 2008-09 Devils suddenly had "nothing else to play for."

-Worst Coach Ever: *Playing the majority of the games, under J'Mac.. the worst coach in the history of the sport.

-2010 Hangover: *Be it Lemaire's newness, or Langs himself. Look past the breaking in period of JL.

-Bad Luck: *Poor Karma in 2011. Getting hurt again.. just as the Devils were starting to roll. Shucks!

-Just the tail end: *If there actually is indeed a decline, it's due to Marty being "brittle" since 2008.

..I got all of them right?

EDIT: In regards to your Schwab\Vanbiesbrouck comment. -You're comparing a very small number of games throughout a 3 year period.. to over 100 games played, from our backup's since the 2008-2009 season.

Edited by Beezer34

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No no, you're right. Brodeur's game since 35, has less to do with age, and more to do with...

Still being elite:

2007-08 44-27-6 2.17 GAA .920 SV 4 SHO (Vezina)

2008-09 19-9-3 2.42 GAA .916 SV 5 SHO

2009-10 45-25-6 2.24 GAA .916 SV 9 SHO (Vezina finalist)

Yep, sure a lot of decline there.

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I am glad Moose is starting.... He is definitely hot right now

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Still being elite:

2007-08 44-27-6 2.17 GAA .920 SV 4 SHO (Vezina)

2008-09 19-9-3 2.42 GAA .916 SV 5 SHO

2009-10 45-25-6 2.24 GAA .916 SV 9 SHO (Vezina finalist)

Yep, sure a lot of decline there.

..and yet, losing 12 out of 17 playoff games.. with a GAA pushing 3 since the 2007-08 season. But hey.. those 2 seasons where he won over 40 games (having played nearly 80 in each) are great consolations prizes. :thumbsup:

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..and yet, losing 12 out of 17 playoff games.. with a GAA pushing 3 since the 2007-08 season. But hey.. those 2 seasons where he won over 40 games (having played nearly 80 in each) are great consolations prizes. :thumbsup:

The playoff thing doesn't show decline, it shows fatigue. Which I agree has been a big issue since the lockout. But it isn't just Brodeur though, NO goalie's been able to handle a 65+ game workload with a deep playoff run since the lockout and all the rule changes have opened up the game.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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Beezer and Corey Schwab had a good percentage backing up Marty from '01-04 as well, so I guess the fact their winning percentage was better also suggest Marty was declining while he was winning a Cup.

oh god. plez dont get him started on beez

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..and yet, losing 12 out of 17 playoff games.. with a GAA pushing 3 since the 2007-08 season. But hey.. those 2 seasons where he won over 40 games (having played nearly 80 in each) are great consolations prizes. :thumbsup:

Yeah... ton of goal support they gave him, too. :thumbsup:

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oh god. plez dont get him started on beez

Beezer shouldn't have even been on that list. He constitutes as being a "backup" the same way Hasek was a backup to Belfour in 1992.

Though his skills were diminished by age, Beezer came to the Devils having left the Islanders as their starter.. a season after being the Flyers starter. When you talk about Vanbiesbrouck & Brodeur.. you're talking about 2 goalies that have 1,000 wins combined.

Beezer behind Brodeur was a backup.. but he really isn't considered a backup by any means.

---------------

..and yet, losing 12 out of 17 playoff games.. with a GAA pushing 3 since the 2007-08 season. But hey.. those 2 seasons where he won over 40 games (having played nearly 80 in each) are great consolations prizes. :thumbsup:

Yeah... ton of goal support they gave him, too. :thumbsup:

-Sutter's Scared: *The influx of the "checking line" in 2009. (a disadvantage Clemmensen never had)

-The TEAM failed me: *An obstacle that came Brodeur's way, when the 2008-09 Devils suddenly had "nothing else to play for."

-Worst Coach Ever: *Playing the majority of the games, under J'Mac.. the worst coach in the history of the sport.

-2010 Hangover: *Be it Lemaire's newness, or Langs himself. Look past the breaking in period of JL.

-Bad Luck: *Poor Karma in 2011. Getting hurt again.. just as the Devils were starting to roll. Shucks!

-Just the tail end: *If there actually is indeed a decline, it's due to Marty being "brittle" since 2008.

..tack on another one.

Edited by Beezer34

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Just silly conjecture, to say someone can or can't do something in the coming 6 weeks or whatever amount of time you feel in your own head. I believe in Hedberg, and for however long his run lasts, I don't know. But, that's nice to know that.. should Brodeur suffer a season ending injury throughout the remaining 20 some odd games left in the season.. you've already thrown in the towel. :rock:

Where did I throw in the towel? People hated Hedberg at the beginning of the year when he looked shaky. Now he's the Messiah. Just like everyone hates Marty whenever he's playing poorly, and loves him again when he plays well.

I NEVER said Clemmensen would have "won us a cup" nor did I say "the Devils would have beaten Carolina, by benching Brodeur." Though this topic continues to be deformed in feeble attempts at putting words in my mouth.. let me AGAIN reiterate my stance. Brodeur is in the twilight of his career and (given the stats of the "backup" goalies that have played for us over the last 4 seasons) I feel we have just as good a chance at winning games with Hedberg in goal, going forward.

No, you said the team made a mistake by going back to Brodeur when he returned from injury. If you didn't think Clem was a better choice than what does that mean? And those "backups" are all out of the NHL or still backups, so apparently they weren't all that great.

Edited by Devil Dan 56

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Yeah... ton of goal support they gave him, too. :thumbsup:

Eh, Marty was BAD in the '07 and '08 playoffs, all those short-side goals against Tampa would still be talked about if we didn't win that Game 4 somehow. '09 when he played fewer games he had by far his best playoff series (other than the Ranger corpse in '06) since the lockout in spite of those two stupid goals in Game 7.

Last year wasn't really his fault despite the numbers being bad, he darn near won Game 3 by himself when nobody else wanted to play in the third period and OT and the team basically quit en masse from the third period of Game 4 on.

Edited by NJDevs4978

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..tack on another one.

Oh, I'm sorry... Yann Danis would have been able to work with 1 goal for per game.

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Where did I throw in the towel?

Hedberg has been a career backup for a reason. He can't maintain this for another 6 weeks.

..nice to know that.. should Brodeur suffer a season ending injury throughout the remaining 20 some odd games left in the year.. you've already thrown in the towel.

---------------------------

You said the team made a mistake by going back to Brodeur when he returned from injury. If you didn't think Clem was a better choice than what does that mean?

..there were a thousand different ways the Devils could've approached that situation. They could've traded Weekes, and kept Clemmensen. They could've rotated back and forth between Clemmensen & Brodeur to ease Marty back in, the way Sutter said they were going to do. (ie: "When Marty comes back, he won't start automatically") They could've traded Clemmensen to another team, with an opportunity. PICK ONE!

Instead they took the easy way out. They sent him to the AHL, after the team rallied behind him, when the rest of the hockey world had dubbed the Devils "dead" after Brodeur went down.

..and those "backups" are all out of the NHL or still backups, so apparently they weren't all that great.

Shouldn't that tell you something? ;) You're proving my point.

If all those goalies are, as you describe.. what does it say that (despite that) they still have a comparable winning percentage to Marty?

Oh, I'm sorry... Yann Danis would have been able to work with 1 goal for per game.

weak.

Edited by Beezer34

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